Help. Confronting DH.

[Questions99]

I can’t get into lots of detail for safety but I am preparing for a confrontation with DH and I’m terrified. We have 2 school age DD.
He’s emotionally abusing me and it’s only in the last few months, with some counselling sessions I took alone, input of two trusted friends who don’t even know each other but have said the same that I’m wondering if he’s gaslighting. I had to look it up.
The primary issue is money. We have been married 20 years, own a home together a couple of flats which gives him a small income. I’ve worked full time most our marriage in a good job and been the ‘breadwinner’.
He’s addicted to collectibles and has periodically hidden spend from me arguing that we’re not in debt so why do I care?
I’ve spent several months feeling more and more sure he’s lying and has found himself a way to get extra income which he hides from me and leaves me to pay 70%-100% of our bills.
I literally only set up my own savings account last month having only ever had a joint account with him and paid in 100% of my salary for all these years. I know. Stupid. He was raging angry.
He tells me my job isn’t as important as I think it is, that I “need to fail” to stop everyone thinking I can do it all... various things like that.
The collecting has escalated in the past 9 months and I have gone into the various web accounts and noted all his spend for the past year (we share accounts, I’m not outwith my rights to check). I obviously can’t check his bank accounts.
I was having palpitations as I tried to gather all the information over several days without being caught. He’s rarely not at home so this is more difficult than it sounds.
I have also photographed as much of his collection as I can find but he keeps things hidden in drawers, safes, in envelopes and boxes so it is impossible for me to photo everything without him noticing.
He has a loud angry temper (but has never lashed out) and we have argued more in the last year than in 20 years. We both put it down to lockdown and our last argument on 8th March he said we have to just “agree to disagree” until the kids are back to school and we can talk without them hearing us fighting because I was so distressed at what our fighting was doing to the kids.
I’m not a fighter. I’m articulate but passive and people-pleasing and can be quiet/moody when I’m tried or stressed with work but the realisation dawning that he has taken absolute advantage of me is making me ill.
I just want him to pay 50/50 and he refuses saying he can’t afford it whilst another £1000 of collectibles arrive. He comes up with elaborate reasons why he needs to keep his money private (i gave up after 10 years asking him to join his account so we had equal transparency).
When I try and reason with him he flat out lies saying his income was temporarily higher and from April will be back to basic income (the amount I thought he was on all the time).
I am 99% sure he’s cash-funding this addiction as he hates debt (though when we met he had lots of debt.. my first sign I missed..). But of course I can’t be totally sure what he’s doing or how.
Today I analysed our joint account for the past 12 months and discovered Ive paid in 3 times what he has - he has taken OUT a 3rd of my salary paid in.
I’m trying to be subtle but he knows I’m getting all the facts together as he has started deleting all receipts and invoices as soon as they come into our email - and he’s emptying the email bin several times a day too.
The bottom line is he’s lying and has been for a long time. I think he’s also possibly got a spending addiction. According to Google this is ‘financial infidelity’ which I hadn’t heard of before but it’s exactly right.
I feel belittled, disrespected, betrayed, scared and devastated for our children who are amazing in every way and deserve so much better but I just can’t go on with it anymore. I love him but can’t respect him anymore for this. He seems to care about me - I know he adores the kids and can be lazy but is generally a good Dad.
But I have to confront him. Pay day in next week and he will freak out if I don’t pay in 70%
I have to find a way to make him stop spending our money and then lying, stonewalling, yelling... basically leaving me feel I’m somehow in the wrong.
I need help to know how to handle this.
Tomorrow is the first day both kids will be at school and literally the first time we’ve been alone in months. I have waited and bit my tongue but it needs to come out.
I’m keeping up appearances but I need help.
How do I prepare for the conversation?
The argument has always been me asking can he contribute more money - to which he says he contributes more non-financially than me (because he is only out at work a half day a week, I work at home but full time in a demanding job).
I pull my weight and keep the house clean and today and I’m the lead parent in terms of nurturing and spending quality time with the kids.
But today, I found envelopes with large amounts of cash hidden away. Not like savings here and there but pristine notes from a machine. My immediate thought was he has this ready to grab and go if he’s had enough or if I ever told him to leave. He’s never mentioned leaving other than once, four years ago but didn’t go through with it.
But I don’t know.
That’s the whole point - I don’t know what he’s doing but I do know he’s got a lot more money than he makes out and swears til he’s blue in the face that he can’t contribute more than 30% to our bills. I don’t know if I can be married to a prolific liar. It’s crushing my confidence. It’s crushing me.

What do I do to prepare to confront him?
He can be incredibly domineering and won’t talk if he doesn’t want to.
I’m an absolute wreck with anxiety and need some kind of breakthrough.
Has anyone ever faced financial infidelity? How did you deal with it? Is separating inevitable? Do I need to engage a solicitor? The police?
I hope someone can help me

Don't confront him.

Leave and divorce him. If all else fails, you'll have half a collection of Warcraft figures, Dolphin plates and Lilliput Lane houses to sell dump at the charity shop .

I could not be with a man like this so in your shoes I'd open with
'if you're not honest, no matter how bad. we are done, I want you to leave and I want a divorce' You have to mean it though and see it through.
He is taking you for an absolute mug. He is spending money you've earned for the family without fairly contributing and actually lying so he doesn't have to provide his fair share. I would be furious and I couldn't see a way back for the relationship. He's disrespectful to you and your dc. At this point, it sounds like you've had this conversation or similar before, I am not sure I'd really want an answer or explanation from him to be honest.
If you do want to end it then similar to the poster above joked - collect his valuable shit and stash it for a rainy day - some of it was paid for from YOUR wages, meant for the family.

Sorry you're in this position.

It doesn't sound as if any good will come from confronting him. I would suggest you get legal advice and keep gathering information.

I'm the meantime, can you pay into the joint account enough for essentials only, not sure if that would be much less than the 70% you're putting in now, then keep the rest in a separate account.

What did you do with the cash you found? I would take it and keep it safe somewhere so he can't hide it again. If its needed then pay it into the joint account as topping up his 30% contribution.

Hopefully someone more financially savvy will be along, but really he sounds awful and you do not have to put up with this.

You work hard and deserve to have financial security, don't let him fritter away your money while he builds up his own nest egg, which it really sounds like he might be. I can guarantee he wouldn't be sharing it with your DDs either.

And if it's the other extreme, and he is over spending then the advice still stands. Don't let him take you down with him.

I'm not sure you can come back from this. It's compulsive spending/collecting which he won't acknowledge. I'd be taking those envelopes of cash and putting them in a safe place he doesn't know about. After all if it's his secret stash, he's not likely to ask you about it is he?

First I would take that money and give it to a friend for safekeeping. I'd tell him that, too.

There's no point in him promising to be above board. He's lazy, greedy and selfish, and he's bleeding you dry.

He's not a good husband or a good parent. I'd be talking to a solicitor about separation.

Op why are you putting so much effort into him, redirect that effort into divorcing him.
You will be so much better off financially and won't have to put up with someone abusing you..

Please contact Women's Aid, you need some help with all this.

Pay 50% into the account and tell him he needs to sort the rest as he is clearly financially independent.

Serve him with divorce papers.

Do you want to split up?
I think you need to decide this before you do anything.
His behaviour is terrible on all fronts and you sound desperately unhappy. You could only come back from this a complete change from him and that sounds extremely unlikely.
I would definitely engage a solicitor urgently as he's going to kick off if you don't give up your salary for his use come pay day, isn't he? You need advice on how to safeguard your finances.
If you want to split, is it even worth confronting him?
He clearly has very problematic, deep issues and given he is already verbally aggressive and intimidating, how is he likely to react if he thinks he's losing his golden goose?
It sounds like you have friends you trust. Tell them what you're planning and see a solicitor forthwith.

You can't change him, if you confront him he's just going to get extremely defensive (and possibly aggressive if he feels like you've been spying on him), you can only decide when enough is enough, maybe you're already at that point.

You need advice from a solicitor. I'd be wary of advice that you'll be 'so much better off financially' if you divorce, as if you've been the breadwinner while he claims he's been the primary caregiver then he might have a claim against you. I'm not saying don't divorce, though, just get good advice.

As a survivor of abuse

I beg you to not confront him

Get him out or
Get you and the kids out and contact a good solicitor

Why confront him? You're not happy, life's too bloody shirt. Just split.

You good employ a forensic accountant and see what they can dig up. It would be money well spent should you divorce.

If he is still buy lots of stuff and deleting receipts then you can simply say he clearly has enough to pay 50:50 now unless he can prove otherwise.

He's not the nice guy you believed he was and that is very painful and shocking.

He sounds awful and he is effectively stealing from you. I would be leaving him but I appreciate that's easier said than done. If you want to stay a bit longer before you're sure then I would say you've taken a pay cut and start putting in much less money

I so sorry this is happening to you OP.

I would take the cash and give to someone for safe keeping - or deposit it in your account. However, I am afraid that this will escalate him and you need to be careful and have an escape plan - speak to womens aid about how to do this.

You need to be really clear what you want from him when you talk to him. Sounds like you want to set limits on what you will put in? Do you also want things to be over? If you are not clear you will find it hard to talk to him because he is going to be argumentative and hostile.

You need to get legal advice as well. As soon as possible.

From what you have said, it is hard to see how this relationship can be salvaged.

Take care.

You need to decide what you want first... Hint... You need to separate. You need to really truly mean it, in an ice cold determined way. There is no way on earth you are going to come up with a workable solution with him. Then arrange an account of your own into which all your salary goes. Transfer half of what is needed for your bills etc into the joint account you have. In other words separate yourself financially. Then see a solicitor and proceed with a divorce.

I wouldn’t even bother confronting him. You’ve done that previously and it’s got you nowhere.

Start making plans to leave. I hate the ‘LTB at the drop of a hat’ replies on MN but on this occasion it’s more than justified.

If you confront him he will continue to lie.

Just end the relationship. Let him pay for his own house.

You want something that is never going to happen - this is over OP you are scared - do you have anyone who can help you

If you cannot speak to him without him dominating the conversation, without him getting ragefull, then don't. Your first action should be to speak to a solicitor, and I would immediately funnel most of your money into your own account for the time being. He is getting ready for that by the sounds of it, so let him use the cash he's taken for his habit. His spending sounds obsessive.

Given that you are the lead parent on top of being the main breadwinner, I'd say you need to divorce. It will probably be painful, but it needs to be done as soon as possible before he drags you further down with him. Plus, you're already doing most of the work yourself and I think your house will be a nicer place without him.

I think you need to start making sure that your access to your own bank account is safe. Make sure your passwords are not easy to guess. If you have a private email address, make sure your password is not automatically saved on your browser.

Gather all the money you’ve found. Presumably it’s your salary he’s been withdrawing. You need a separate account for your salary if you aren’t immediately leaving him. If it’s too late to do this for next week’s payday, transfer it the second it hits the account to a new one in your name only.

I think you just have to be utterly honest with him, let him know you’ve checked, you know what he’s done. Not sure I could cope with this behaviour or him working so little unless he is unable to work.

I'm not sure I would consider taking the cash and stashing it somewhere - if you don't know where it came from and it's in big piles then it sounds dodgy as fuck.

Why are the flats his income and not joint income?

I’d take the cash, and say if it came up that I assume it’s my salary he was withdrawing.
Honestly the relationship is dead. He’s using you and lying to you. I’d be thinking of how living separately works- especially as you work more if I have it right.

Hey OP
I remember your old threads.

Well done for getting as far as you have, both with your investigations and your thinking.

What are you aiming to achieve from a confrontation? He's not going to change, he's told you that a million times already. You confronting him will not, unfortunately, result in him holding his hands up and agreeing to do things differently. It's likely to result in rage, anger and hopefully that's as bad as it gets but plenty of women will tell you it gets worse.

Once you've laid bare the extent of your research you've also given him a head's up as to how much you know, and he'll be even more scrupulous about hiding his earnings and spending.

Have you managed to work out how much he's earning yet?

Keep your powder dry, keep quiet, instruct a solicitor ASAP and also give Women's Aid a call for advice on leaving a financially abusive relationship, which is what this is.