Help. Confronting DH.

[Questions99]

I can’t get into lots of detail for safety but I am preparing for a confrontation with DH and I’m terrified. We have 2 school age DD.
He’s emotionally abusing me and it’s only in the last few months, with some counselling sessions I took alone, input of two trusted friends who don’t even know each other but have said the same that I’m wondering if he’s gaslighting. I had to look it up.
The primary issue is money. We have been married 20 years, own a home together a couple of flats which gives him a small income. I’ve worked full time most our marriage in a good job and been the ‘breadwinner’.
He’s addicted to collectibles and has periodically hidden spend from me arguing that we’re not in debt so why do I care?
I’ve spent several months feeling more and more sure he’s lying and has found himself a way to get extra income which he hides from me and leaves me to pay 70%-100% of our bills.
I literally only set up my own savings account last month having only ever had a joint account with him and paid in 100% of my salary for all these years. I know. Stupid. He was raging angry.
He tells me my job isn’t as important as I think it is, that I “need to fail” to stop everyone thinking I can do it all... various things like that.
The collecting has escalated in the past 9 months and I have gone into the various web accounts and noted all his spend for the past year (we share accounts, I’m not outwith my rights to check). I obviously can’t check his bank accounts.
I was having palpitations as I tried to gather all the information over several days without being caught. He’s rarely not at home so this is more difficult than it sounds.
I have also photographed as much of his collection as I can find but he keeps things hidden in drawers, safes, in envelopes and boxes so it is impossible for me to photo everything without him noticing.
He has a loud angry temper (but has never lashed out) and we have argued more in the last year than in 20 years. We both put it down to lockdown and our last argument on 8th March he said we have to just “agree to disagree” until the kids are back to school and we can talk without them hearing us fighting because I was so distressed at what our fighting was doing to the kids.
I’m not a fighter. I’m articulate but passive and people-pleasing and can be quiet/moody when I’m tried or stressed with work but the realisation dawning that he has taken absolute advantage of me is making me ill.
I just want him to pay 50/50 and he refuses saying he can’t afford it whilst another £1000 of collectibles arrive. He comes up with elaborate reasons why he needs to keep his money private (i gave up after 10 years asking him to join his account so we had equal transparency).
When I try and reason with him he flat out lies saying his income was temporarily higher and from April will be back to basic income (the amount I thought he was on all the time).
I am 99% sure he’s cash-funding this addiction as he hates debt (though when we met he had lots of debt.. my first sign I missed..). But of course I can’t be totally sure what he’s doing or how.
Today I analysed our joint account for the past 12 months and discovered Ive paid in 3 times what he has - he has taken OUT a 3rd of my salary paid in.
I’m trying to be subtle but he knows I’m getting all the facts together as he has started deleting all receipts and invoices as soon as they come into our email - and he’s emptying the email bin several times a day too.
The bottom line is he’s lying and has been for a long time. I think he’s also possibly got a spending addiction. According to Google this is ‘financial infidelity’ which I hadn’t heard of before but it’s exactly right.
I feel belittled, disrespected, betrayed, scared and devastated for our children who are amazing in every way and deserve so much better but I just can’t go on with it anymore. I love him but can’t respect him anymore for this. He seems to care about me - I know he adores the kids and can be lazy but is generally a good Dad.
But I have to confront him. Pay day in next week and he will freak out if I don’t pay in 70%
I have to find a way to make him stop spending our money and then lying, stonewalling, yelling... basically leaving me feel I’m somehow in the wrong.
I need help to know how to handle this.
Tomorrow is the first day both kids will be at school and literally the first time we’ve been alone in months. I have waited and bit my tongue but it needs to come out.
I’m keeping up appearances but I need help.
How do I prepare for the conversation?
The argument has always been me asking can he contribute more money - to which he says he contributes more non-financially than me (because he is only out at work a half day a week, I work at home but full time in a demanding job).
I pull my weight and keep the house clean and today and I’m the lead parent in terms of nurturing and spending quality time with the kids.
But today, I found envelopes with large amounts of cash hidden away. Not like savings here and there but pristine notes from a machine. My immediate thought was he has this ready to grab and go if he’s had enough or if I ever told him to leave. He’s never mentioned leaving other than once, four years ago but didn’t go through with it.
But I don’t know.
That’s the whole point - I don’t know what he’s doing but I do know he’s got a lot more money than he makes out and swears til he’s blue in the face that he can’t contribute more than 30% to our bills. I don’t know if I can be married to a prolific liar. It’s crushing my confidence. It’s crushing me.

What do I do to prepare to confront him?
He can be incredibly domineering and won’t talk if he doesn’t want to.
I’m an absolute wreck with anxiety and need some kind of breakthrough.
Has anyone ever faced financial infidelity? How did you deal with it? Is separating inevitable? Do I need to engage a solicitor? The police?
I hope someone can help me

Op
What are you hoping to gain from confronting him?

Do you feel that 1) he is able to be honest and 2) you will ever be able to trust him?

@Questions99
Dear friend. I am so sorry that you are going through this and I totally understand how you may feel. Although problems I have with my husband are different from the ones you have I do know how it feels when you cannot really get an honest answer from somebody, when they are twisting things to look like it is somehow all your fault and when the person is not willing to take responsibility for his actions. I know that breaking your marriage is not easy (I am struggling with mine too), and that this is something you have to decided on your own, but I do feel that others are correct when they tell you that this is your best option. Even if you confront him and get an honest answer I do not think that the problems you are having with him will go away. More then ten years ago I found out that my husband borrowed a lot of money to invest in stocks and then lost half of it when the market crashed. He did not ask me if he could do this or tell me when it all went down, but kept telling me to not spend money and accused me of being a reason why we were in a difficult financial position. At that time, he was mostly dealing with our finances and I had no idea what was going on. Finally, one day he blurted it out. I could not believe what he was telling me. After that I started keeping some of my money and paying more attention to what is going on with our finances. I decided to stay with him and we are together to this day, but this seriously undermined our marriage. I did not trust or respect him after that and he never to this day admitted in doing anything wrong. He even accused me many times for splitting our finances when “he needed me the most”. I just wish I left him right there and then. He never did anything that stupid again, no, but that showed me what kind of a person he was and what kind of a relationship we had.

^As a survivor of abuse
I beg you to not confront him
Get him out or
Get you and the kids out and contact a good solicitor^

Please take heed of this excellent advice.

I was abused too. It can be the death of you. No fucking joke.

As they say, get your ducks in a row, keep your head down and find that lawyer.

@HollowTalk

First I would take that money and give it to a friend for safekeeping. I'd tell him that, too.

There's no point in him promising to be above board. He's lazy, greedy and selfish, and he's bleeding you dry.

He's not a good husband or a good parent. I'd be talking to a solicitor about separation.

This. He's bloody awful. Lazy, aggressive, shorty, shit dad -why are you with him????? I'd leave and see a solicitor. Good luck!

If you want to stay with him I would take the cash and hide it elsewhere,

I would be speaking to the bank, opening my own account and getting my pay put in there and remove my name from the joint account

I would advise him what bills you will pay and what he is responsible for

But personally I would be leaving him

I think I remember on your last thread that you weren't ready to consider leaving him? How are you feeling about it now?

I would still take the line that, if he won't tell you what he earns, you both need to pay in 50:50. He wants to pay less? He shows you his incomings.

I think I am torn. Whichever way I look there are major difficulties ahead. I can’t be impatient because there are two innocent children involved so I think ‘keeping my powder dry’ is a very good piece of advice. Perhaps I need more time to speak to a solicitor and women’s aid and understand what could actually come my way when I confront him. Part of the reason to confront him urgently is I get paid next week and need to only pay half to have at least a little money behind me if he ups and goes, or cleans out the joint account and leaves us unable to pay bills. Or forces me to pay 70% or more by not paying anything in at all and knowing I won’t risk defaulting. I need tactics to somehow manage him, pay in less so I can have some savings whilst getting professional advice (which will be a bit easier now we’re not completely locked down). I’m just not sure what order to do things in.
I know he won’t change.
I also know he has no appetite to work on his addictive issues.
And I don’t know anymore if being with me is enough to force him to get help.
He said 4 years ago when he almost left (after another addiction came to light) that he’s always be a dad but wouldn’t necessarily always be a husband. I was obviously extremely upset at the time but it’s the truth. @Cavagirl you will know how hard I have tried to be forgiving and see the best in him. I’m still willing to do the hard work - but I don’t think he will ever stop this behaviour.
I am on a clock. I need to tell him we must move to splitting everything 50/50 on the 31st March. If I had the back up of a solicitor and women’s aid I might just find the courage to do it.
I’ve been trying to find out what women’s aid can do to help in financial abuse it all seems focused understandably on sexual abuse and violence. Explaining my situation always feels like an uphill struggle. I know people face much much worse. I just can’t carry on feeling worthless and used.

@Questions99
Abuse is not only sexual and physical. There are all other sorts that are a lot more subtle but still hurtful and damaging. I totally agree and understand you on this one.

So sad for you AND the children.

But he won’t change, not unless the three ghosts of Christmas pay him a visit.

Whatever you decide, you’ll get grief, but if you tell him to get out and you want a divorce, you’ll only get an earful once instead of a lifetimes worth. He values you not at all.

You are worth more than the shit he is giving you.

For what it’s worth, I would have kept that cash you found and left an envelope with a letter in it’s place, saying ‘ You lying bastard, I’m taking this money to pay your share of the bills. I want a divorce, now get out and fuck off or I’ll call the police ‘

How much is the mortgage and council tax? are they less than 50%?

I would stop the DD for them and pay them from your account as they are the ones you can't default on. Pay the remainder of 50% into the joint account and tell him until he gives you full transparency you can only assume he can pay 50% too otherwise he couldn't afford his collection.

He is being paid in cash and declaring most of it.

So sorry to hear your story OP. You might want to consult the charity Surviving Economic Abuse. Www.survivingeconomomicabuse.org.

Part of the reason to confront him urgently is I get paid next week and need to only pay half to have at least a little money behind me if he ups and goes, or cleans out the joint account and leaves us unable to pay bills

That's only part of the reason, what's the other part?

How likely do you think it really is that he cleans out the account and leaves? What's changed since your last thread, where he seemed unhappy at being questioned by you but ultimately quite happy to have available cash to spend?

I am on a clock. I need to tell him we must move to splitting everything 50/50 on the 31st March. If I had the back up of a solicitor and women’s aid I might just find the courage to do it

I think you need to take a breath, give WA a call in the morning. Financial and economic abuse is absolutely something they advise on.

Hi OP - I remember your previous thread. You are deeply scared of your husband. It’s not natural to be terrified of confronting your partner. Your fear was palpable from your first post on this thread. I don’t see how you can come back from that.

I also wouldn’t confront and reveal everything you have discovered. Take legal advice and speak to Women’s Aid. Find out where you stand legally. Paying mortgage and counsel tax directly also sounds like a good plan.

Could you ask your work to pay some of your salary into the usual account and the rest into a secret account? I would happily do that for my team

Speak to your payroll department. You can definitely amend bank details in time for this months pay. There’s also time to set up another account. It’s all done online now.

Take the cash too!

Are you scared of him?

To be honest, he won't change and there is nothing you can do if he won't pay anything towards mortgage or bills. If it were me, I would may the minimum needed into the joint account this month and speak to a solicitor ASAP just not to raise his suspicions. I'd also be taking photos of the cash you've found and anything else you can. Yes it's another month of you paying for things, but what's a month when you've been doing it for so long, especially if it bikes you time to get your ducks in a row and get out in a better position? Sorry if I've misunderstood anything!

@Questions99

I think I am torn. Whichever way I look there are major difficulties ahead. I can’t be impatient because there are two innocent children involved so I think ‘keeping my powder dry’ is a very good piece of advice. Perhaps I need more time to speak to a solicitor and women’s aid and understand what could actually come my way when I confront him. Part of the reason to confront him urgently is I get paid next week and need to only pay half to have at least a little money behind me if he ups and goes, or cleans out the joint account and leaves us unable to pay bills. Or forces me to pay 70% or more by not paying anything in at all and knowing I won’t risk defaulting. I need tactics to somehow manage him, pay in less so I can have some savings whilst getting professional advice (which will be a bit easier now we’re not completely locked down). I’m just not sure what order to do things in. I know he won’t change. I also know he has no appetite to work on his addictive issues. And I don’t know anymore if being with me is enough to force him to get help. He said 4 years ago when he almost left (after another addiction came to light) that he’s always be a dad but wouldn’t necessarily always be a husband. I was obviously extremely upset at the time but it’s the truth. *@Cavagirl* you will know how hard I have tried to be forgiving and see the best in him. I’m still willing to do the hard work - but I don’t think he will ever stop this behaviour. I am on a clock. I need to tell him we must move to splitting everything 50/50 on the 31st March. If I had the back up of a solicitor and women’s aid I might just find the courage to do it. I’ve been trying to find out what women’s aid can do to help in financial abuse it all seems focused understandably on sexual abuse and violence. Explaining my situation always feels like an uphill struggle. I know people face much much worse. I just can’t carry on feeling worthless and used.

Have you actually tried asking women's aid? They might be able to refer you on to other agencies who can help.

Hi OP
I ended a relationship like yours, not over finance but drinking. It took so much courage to do it but my god my peaceful safe life now. I wake up happy every day.
I turned the tables on him in that I raised my game and fought back verbally, called police on him, changed locks (my home not his) bought myself a car when he said I wasn't 'allowed' to drive his but that is not for you - get a solicitor to advise you and get that ball rolling. This will be short term pain for a much longer gain believe me. Have a timeline and always stay one step ahead of him. Anticipate the worst and it is likely he will do it. Call the police if he starts any abusive behaviour, he won't think you will and it will show him you mean business. Yes kids will be upset (mine were) but they will be fine. Have so where your can go to escape to if necessary for a few hours. Those things he has bought belong to you, so remember that as it's money for you when you split assets. Good luck yes it is terrifying but you're terrified every day even without taking action.

Could he sell what he collects? Is it worth suggesting that and a restart or has that horse long bolted?

I didn't see your other thread.

@Fabiofatshaft1

So sad for you AND the children.

But he won’t change, not unless the three ghosts of Christmas pay him a visit.

Whatever you decide, you’ll get grief, but if you tell him to get out and you want a divorce, you’ll only get an earful once instead of a lifetimes worth. He values you not at all.

You are worth more than the shit he is giving you.

For what it’s worth, I would have kept that cash you found and left an envelope with a letter in it’s place, saying ‘ You lying bastard, I’m taking this money to pay your share of the bills. I want a divorce, now get out and fuck off or I’ll call the police ‘

Same here on the cash.

I remember your other thread too. I’m really sorry no good advice here but I too am struck by how scared you are. Surely it shouldn’t be that way in a normal relationship - so perhaps that will give you the strength you need to grieve the man you thought you knew and put aside thoughts of being in a normal relationship with some problems to work through. This is an abusive relationship and like PP have said perhaps best thing to do is take the week to explore all options before you do anything. Perhaps he needs to see you are serious about leaving by seeing you actually leave? Do be cautious though - leaving could make things more unsafe? There are lots of wise women who could be more helpful than me on that. My aunt lost her house as her husband had a secret gambling problem so I’d say getting professional financial help now would be a good idea. Good luck!

I would be looking to leave him and preparing from now until 31st March to make myself financially more secure.

Can you plan to empty out or take your fair share (half plus perhaps enough to cover children’s expenses) the day before you’re paid. Then the day you’re paid the salary goes directly into your new account. So it happens all very efficiently and quickly.

My ex was financially abusive, earner barely anything and allowed me to pay all bills, rent, claimed his job would earn more in our future etc, in the end he was also physically, but mainly mentally. I wasn’t married or any children but I did in the end have to plan leaving very systematically and cleverly.

Perhaps you could write a post about joint accounts in the finances section and a solicitor may be able to advise?

Honestly leave him, for the sake of your children. They’re not better off in this “family” unit where there seems to be arguing, little trust, little respect for you. Your children will grow up and see their fathers ways as healthy and normal.

Please do research any support you could get? But just be clever with your finances and open the bank account etc.

Wasn't he supposed to be finding a job ?
I'm not in the UK, but I assume this lucrative, exchange/collection/hobby is not declared to HRMC ?
Also it may be difficult, indeed, impossible to spend whole wodges of bank notes? You can't go & buy a car with cash....So unless he pays for petrol, groceries then it is not easy to spend.
You need to count this money & photograph it. & remove it.
Then you need to confront him with the proof & ask him what else he is hiding ? by email if necessary if you are afraid of his reaction ?
He is spending your income, speculating on it & then hiding the profit
You need to go carefully because he is not going to go quietly or fairly, he has been SAHP, & technically could fight for more than half of the house/pension if you divorce him.
But now you have proof he has his own income !!!! So you may have some leverage.
Cut him off. Game over.