How do I stop doing this?? **Content warning added by MNHQ: concerns rape**

[Toodlepippip]

Late thirties ,been with my DH for 20+ years.
Sex has always been an issue,he would have it every day , multiple times a day if it was up to him.
Or that's what it feels like, as he is constantly talking about it,messaging about it,groping ,touching me, sending me links to lingerie or outfits he wants me to wear. This happens no matter where we are ,what we are doing. Whether I'm ill or upset,it's relentless.
We have sex usually 2-3 times a week. But we can have just had sex and he will start again, with it all and go on about the next time.
It's getting me down,I have tried telling him the more he does this,the less I want sex, because I never get the chance to actually want it , to desire it ,because it's just a constant pressure .
He seems to think if he doesn't keep on at me about it,then I will forget and it won't happen. Despite this never being the case ,I think the longest he's gone has been 3 weeks and that was because I'd had an operation,even then for me it was way too soon.
I often have sex when I'm not really in the mood for it ,because other wise he gets moody and sulky and he's just generally a nicer person to be around if he gets it.
I have been seeing a counsellor and really trying to work on my communication ,to be able to say what I feel and just improve the communication between us,so if I do say no,he doesn't feel so insecure or rejected. But I feel heard too.
He woke me up one morning a few weeks ago ,by groping and touching and started to initiate sex. I said no and asked him to stop twice. I was going to then explain why I wasn't feeling up to it.
But he just said No,No I won't stop. It just didn't occur to me that he would say that. I just froze I don't know why,I just didn't know what to do. We ended up having sex.
I feel rubbish in myself right now ,but even so I have managed to convince myself it was just a few words and it's not a big deal and it's totally my fault for freezing.
How do I stop doing this,I'm always finding a way to excuse any behaviour no matter what it is.
I just find his behaviour so confusing,he can be lovely and kind in so many different ways. How can he be like 2 completely different people?

The fact that you think he doesn't think it's wrong/serious just proves that he is not a good guy! He SHOULD think it's wrong to have sex with an unwilling participant.

Could you talk to your counsellor about this? At the moment it sounds like the whole focus on your therapy has been on your communication, whereas it sounds like you are communicating really clearly and he is not listening. While what he did is rape, there are a lot of men who really dont understand issues of consent, (which is why every school should have sessions on this) especially within relationships. And in my experience (as a psychotherapist) lots of men need sex to feel close to someone, whereas women want to feel close before they want to have sex.

If reading this you feel you want to walk away, know it is not your fault, you have not don't anything wrong, and freezing is something you cannot help in these situations. If you think you might want to stay with him, you might want to consider joint sessions or couples counselling. Then if the behavior does not stop, you could leave then.

He sounds an absolute sex maniac. You need to separate immediately. Nobody should put up with this behaviour.

I think he'd be really upset and confused that I feel this way,I don't think he would think it's as serious as other people have. He's the most law abiding,do things by the book person I know. Which is why I struggle with accepting it.

Maybe you should show him the message then, see if he finally gets how you feel.

Law abiding? Except in the raping department? I'm really sorry, op.

@Hailtomyteeth

I agree with the poster who said you need a better counsellor. And you need to be scrupulously honest with them.

How can this be the counsellors fault when the OP stated she had not told the counsellor about this? The counsellor can only go with what they have been told the problem is, they are not psychic. OP, please dont worry about loyalty here, if you feel this is a problem, be open to your counsellor and they can help you access further support and work out what you want to do.

@Toodlepippip

l think he'd be really upset and confused that I feel this way,I don't think he would think it's as serious as other people have. He's the most law abiding,do things by the book person I know. Which is why I struggle with accepting it. I get the usual,It's because I love you so much and fancy you,what's wrong with that type of comments when I try to talk to him about it.

The bottom line is that he doesn't listen to you. He doesn't care that you're not as keen as him. He doesn't care that his persistence puts you off. He only cares that he wants it, he wants it now^ and you're his wife and you're there to fulfil his wishes. He doesn't care that you've said No.

He really doesn't care. Because you don't matter.

While what he did is rape, there are a lot of men who really dont understand issues of consent, (which is why every school should have sessions on this) especially within relationships.

They know that if somone's literally said no then they've said no, and that means they don't want something. We learn the word as very young children. What he's done is cut and dried rape, it's not a misunderstanding, OP said no and he carried on. Yes some men think they're entitled and there's no such thing as rape in relationships- they're wrong.

lots of men need sex to feel close to someone, whereas women want to feel close before they want to have sex.

Sex isn't a need, it's a want. And men are able to have friends and loved ones without shagging them. They're also able to be decent to women- they often manage it ok while they're still trying to 'woo' us, before they take us for granted etc. Some guys even are decent and suppportive to their wives and girlfriends- with a decent guy it doesn't depend on whether he's getting sex or not.

Zero tolerance for rapists.

They're definitely not husband material and no-one should be advised to consider staying with someone who's raped them- or have couple's counselling with their rapist. It's not recommended with abusers. Sexual abuse is abuse.

@readyforachangemaybe

Gosh that sounds really difficult. I would struggle massively with that. It sounds incredibly intense. Obviously I don't know what your DH is like, but I'm wondering whether relationship counselling is the way to go. I feel like you need to have a third person there to mediate a conversation where you assertively tell him this cannot continue. From what you are describing it's barely consensual. Are there any other areas where he's so assertive?

I think it's gone way past that. Despite different people having different sex drives, and no long term you can't keep asking for it, or saying no to it, unless you agree on a sexless relationship, and some have questioned on other posts with similar problems, do you not feel attracted to your partner etc, it's obviously not the right relationship for you etc etc.

It is not right to have the other person constantly on at you about sex either, and his behaviour is out of hand. Then the recent event is where the line needs to be drawn, get some support and start organising getting out of this marriage, the sulking and everything else I have heard it all before. How has the rest of the 20 years gone? I can't believe that this is his only thing he does, what is he like in general as abusive men can be okay some of the time, still doesn't change anything.

@Toodlepippip

I have never told my counsellor specific details about what's been happening. Just more generally about communication issues and how I find it difficult to communicate my needs. It feels disloyal,another PP was right,I don't want to take him to court,I don't want him punished ,I don't want to ruin his life. I don't want friends , family,work colleagues to think badly of him. I do want it to stop. But feeling this way makes it difficult to reach out for help.

Nearly all who are in, or who have been in a relationship with someone who has done bad things, doesn't want to see them get in trouble etc or ruin their life, but what about what they do to us the victims because that's what we are, not weak but strong for suffering it. They aren't bothered how we feel, and in time you have to deal with it the same way.

@Toodlepippip

I work ,but don't earn a lot, we both own the house jointly.

No I can't really afford to leave,it would be extremely difficult financially and not in "I don't want to give up my expensive lifestyle" sort of way,But the cost of living and housing here is really high.
But I'm beginning to realise I can't afford to stay,I just wish it was easier.

Not sure where you live, you don't need to say, but surely London is the most expensive, if you are only working P/T you could apply for Universal Credit, you can have a look online and fill out the questions to get an idea of how things might work out financially. This is something you can speak to Women’s Aid, Domestic helpline about too.

I’m so sorry this happened to you. A lot of your thoughts at the moment are about what he would feel if you confronted him with the fact that he raped you. Because that is the fact of what happened whatever he might feel about it. What happens if you take a moment to only think about how you feel and what you need? You are probably still a bit in shock. Even if it is temporary could you leave to get some space to work out what to do next? You are not safe now because he has shown you that he will rape you (have sex with you without your consent) whenever he wants. It must be so shocking and upsetting to realise this about the man you married and perhaps still love. Please take your children and get away and get some support for you. 🌷

My sex pest rapist identifies as a left wing progressive feminist.

Seriously sex pests come in all shape & forms.
Some can be more traditional/old fashioned views of what a wife means - to them a wife means someone to have sex with. He is someone’s husband, this is what married couples do.

if he is having sex with you when you’re not keen he senses that & doesn’t care. He just wants sex from you & is happy to accept a pity shag.

You’re prioritising the feelings of someone who doesn’t care about yours. He doesn’t care that you feel uncomfortable, only if he can get what he wants out of you.

He's a rapist. He doesn't do things but the book, he's a criminal. He will never stop or change.

Yuk. He sounds like an oversexed dog.
Imagine a life OP, where you're at peace and not continually harangued for sex. Make that your goal

You should never have to say no twice, only ever once, no means no. This incident and everything else you've described, the constant harassment about sex, sec after an operation before you were ready, sending you links to lingerie (yuk!) - you are being abused and it must be a horribly stressful way to live. I hope all of the comments here give you the strength to leave this toxic relationship. You deserve so much better than this, you deserve a happy life.

Is anyone else picturing the husband looking like Fat Bastard from the Austin Powers movies?

Looking AND acting like F.B I mean

I'm so sorry op. I was with a sex pest. He framed it just like yours would 'oh it's just because I love you/fancy you' but it is what it is. Breathtaking entitlement and a belief that they usb your body. He thinks you belong to him. That he owns you. That's why your words don't matter to him. Because you are his possession and therefore he is allowed to do with you as he pleases.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I know it doesn't fit your narrative of what rape is. But it is. It is rape. Please speak to take crisis.

I appreciate all the replies ,I'm taking it all on board,I'm sorry I can't say I'm going to leave today,but I will leave,I have too. I will get there I just need time.

You don’t need to apologise to us Toodlepip - the realities of leaving a long term relationship are not simple.
I think the chief concern of everyone on this thread is that you are safe and not going to be subject to any sort of sexual assault, from rape to groping. Do you have a plan on how to try and stay safe for the time being?

This is truly horrific. I dont even know where to begin. I will say that he has conditioned you by behaving in a difficult way so you see sex as one way to make your life easier.

Everything is premeditated.

I really hope you allow yourself to sit with the reality and gravity of this situation. You need to leave, this man is a rapist. How fkn dare he tell you that you can't say no to sex.

I'm so sorry you're having to cope with this, OP. And no, no one is trying to make you feel bad for not leaving straightaway. It obviously isn't that simple.

I echo the advice to contact Rape Crisis. I found them very helpful several years ago when I was coming to terms with my childhood abuse. They can give you RL support.

@Toodlepippip

I appreciate all the replies ,I'm taking it all on board,I'm sorry I can't say I'm going to leave today,but I will leave,I have too. I will get there I just need time.

It takes time. Please don't be afraid to seek help and support for yourself because you're worried about him getting in trouble. He deserves to get in trouble but I can understand why you might not want that because I was exactly the same way. You can get help and support for yourself without him or anyone else knowing. You can call or email support services for women in abusive relationships like women's aid, rape crisis etc, tell them everything and not have to worry about either being forced to take action by leaving right away (or ever), and not have to worry about him getting in trouble or ever finding out you've spoken about him. You can just talk, explain what's going on, talk about your fears and worries and so on, and nothing more has to happen. That really reassured me and I hope it reassures you.

My sex pest rapist identifies as a left wing progressive feminist.

@gutful Yes, my ex-pest is a therapist (not mine) and a Green. A lot of them actually put a lot into virtue signalling, doing and saying all the right things etc. They get more allies and victims that way, and get away with more stuff.

It took me two attempts and at least a year to finally leave. I kept holding on until one day I had just had enough. You'll have your moment too, in your own time and when you're ready. It will be awfully confusing for a while but the fog will clear one day and they'll be nothing to hold you back. In the meantime, we're all here cheering you on and ready to listen and support as best we can.