What happened to men?

[AnotherStupidQuestion]

There have been a few threads along this line recently. I don't have anything new to add really; I'm just surprised that there are so many crap men about.

I've been single for a decade. In that time, I dated a bit and had a few flings but nothing that constituted a relationship.

Even men who seem decent on the surface are hiding some deeply unattractive qualities just beneath the surface.

It's got to the point where, even on the Tell me about your lovely man threads on here, my cynical voice is asking, "But what do you not know about?"; "What's he keeping from you?; "What are you tolerating that I wouldn't?"

I know the answer is patriarchy and misogyny but I wonder how we, as a species, have become so dysfunctional that so many relationships are poor; so many women are prepared to put up with so much shit and so many men are just appalling? Yet so many seem to also want a relationship.

I don't hate men. I have a son and some very close male friends I have good relationships with. But i have given up completely on ever having a mutually respectful, loving relationship now.

Mens as friends, family, colleagues are great. Men in a relationship? Just no.

I just wondered how other people feel.

I agree with you. I don't know what the answer is. It's very depressing and worrying.

I think it was always like that, but women can talk about it more freely now. Perhaps before there was more of an element of shame - if your man was treating you badly, you were to blame? That kind of culture

Although widespread, easily accessible porn isn't helping things

I agree with you too tbh.

I'm reminded of the hannah gatsby speech where she stated that the good guys need the bad guys and that they don't realky do anything about it because without the bad guys they wouldn't be able to prove themselves the guidelines guys

Words to that effect any way.

Every man who appears to remotely "get" anything with regards to us as women and how we live and what our needs are etc , well eventually, turns out they just don't and that there's always an expected "payoff" for what most of us would consider normal human behaviour.

Like a dog who needs treats to teach it to sit.

I dunno whats worse tbh. The not nice guys at least show you they aren't nice ajd you never expect anything from them. You cant complain because they are who they always have been and who you knew them to be. The so called nice ones , they the ones to be wary of. WhaT do they want what are they hiding .

I mean on a day to day basis in a colleague ir platonic Manner it doesn't really matter i guess. Even friendships naturally have boundries so you can quite happily maintain friendships within those boundries.

But as partners, people you are supposed to be able to share everything with, feel totally safe and that everything is unconditional with, I'm.not entirely sure that exists

Prove themselves to he the good guys

Sorry for typos

From a male point of view I’ll just say this.

Because women are completely perfect and innocent right?

Women do not systemically oppress men. There is a patriarchy not a matriarchy. Statistically men are much more likely to be violent, abusers and abandon their children. Yes, some individual women can be shitty too but not the majority. The majority of men treat women terribly.

13:21Maca07166 exactly that! They forget their own kind and because they are viewed as kind, motherly and loving! Equally there's a fair share of gender nastiness out there!

Wow. Well, we managed 6 posts.

WhATaBOuT teH mENz

This is Mumsnet, not Dadsnet. Can't you take your ignorance elsewhere?

Equally there's a fair share of gender nastiness out there!

A fair share?

3 women a week are murdered by a male partner or Former partner in the UK (was 2 but has increased under lockdowns)

Actual deadly violence.

I don’t think that’s in any way comparable with whatever unpleasantness women dish out. Whilst being still being expected to be kind, motherly and loving.

Women do not systemically oppress men. There is a patriarchy not a matriarchy. Statistically men are much more likely to be violent, abusers and abandon their children. Yes, some individual women can be shitty too but not the majority. The majority of men treat women terribly

I used to be someone who would go out of their way to prove those who warned me, wrong, I didn't want to believe it and I went out of my way to prove NAMALT etc

It didnt go well. I was lucky to escape some less than pleasant situations involving men who looking back had made no effort to hide who they were. My own.stupid fault really, but I dont do it any more

Because women are completely perfect and innocent right?

Of course not. And i didn't say they are. But if you want to start a thread to discuss the problem with women be my guest!

However, I will say that I'm honest, open and loyal. I don't feel the need to flirt with other men. I don't have expectations of men that dehumanise them. I don't ever tell them they should lose weight when they are neither overweight nor want to. I don't ever go on about how 'hot' other men are or send them sleazy messages on social media.

I'm respectful. I assert my boundaries in a way that is clear and they are free to walk away in they don't agree. I don't pretend to be someone or something I'm not in order to deceive and get away with things I know they would be upset by.

I don't lie or manipulate...

In short, I treat men how i would like to be treated by them. It doesnt seem to work both ways though.

Well men can’t be that bad as women always seem to be desperate to be in a relationship, I’ve been single for 4 years and I’m seen as “odd” and “strange” I know it seems common on MN for women to be single for 20 years but I don’t know any women irl like that, most are desperate for relationships

They forget their own kind and because they are viewed as kind, motherly and loving!

Actually, that belief is part of the problem.

A lot of men don't like women who are independent or honest or don't want to be 'motherly' towards adult males!

I agree with you. It's a small thing in the scheme of things but I'm on a popular social media platform and it's depressing how many men slide into my DM's despite living with someone or being married. I even got a dick pic off a male, married friend.

It gives me absolutely no hope of ever meeting a decent man.

Well men can’t be that bad as women always seem to be desperate to be in a relationship

I imagine women who are "desperate" usually have other reasons rather than enjoying romantic relationships with shitty men though (e.g. hope of not finding a shitty man, want for kids, idealised view of romance etc)

Givemeabreak88

I think that is, in part, because are a social species and it makes sense for us to partner up.

But also because little girls are told from birth that that is our destiny.

And we also need it for the species to survive.

And many women stay in bad relationships because they don’t want to be alone so clearly they think that’s better than being on their own.

I even got a dick pic off a male, married friend.

I got a dick pic from a male married friend on christmas day a couple of years ago.

Astonishingly, I've never felt the need to send a photo of my genitals toa married man though.

And many women stay in bad relationships because they don’t want to be alone so clearly they think that’s better than being on their own.

Or it's easier to stay with a shitty partner that you've built your life around, rather than moving out onto a whole new variety of shitty partners?

You're using insecurity as a "Gotcha", I'm not sure why.

And many women stay in bad relationships because they don’t want to be alone so clearly they think that’s better than being on their own.

What a number society has done on women then.

You forget that its the women who have the babies and are the ones who most often have reduced their working hours or given up their careers for the family and are sadly in a position where its physically impossible to leave.

@hyunasthebest

I think it was always like that, but women can talk about it more freely now. Perhaps before there was more of an element of shame - if your man was treating you badly, you were to blame? That kind of culture

Yes, this. Also, women have options now of economic independence without needing men. This allows them to stand back and analyse how men are, and whether that's something they want to have in their life, in a way that they couldn't in previous generations.

Porn doesn't help but I tend to think it's just making elements of male sexuality that have always existed more overt. When you consider in previous periods of history how rape within marriage was perfectly legal, female consent largely not even considered as a thing, use of prostitutes outside of marriage taken for granted etc. etc. there's not really anything new about all this.

Besides, even if all the women decided to dump all the awful men and be happily single, it still doesnt solve the issue of men's appalling behaviour.