What happened to men?

[AnotherStupidQuestion]

There have been a few threads along this line recently. I don't have anything new to add really; I'm just surprised that there are so many crap men about.

I've been single for a decade. In that time, I dated a bit and had a few flings but nothing that constituted a relationship.

Even men who seem decent on the surface are hiding some deeply unattractive qualities just beneath the surface.

It's got to the point where, even on the Tell me about your lovely man threads on here, my cynical voice is asking, "But what do you not know about?"; "What's he keeping from you?; "What are you tolerating that I wouldn't?"

I know the answer is patriarchy and misogyny but I wonder how we, as a species, have become so dysfunctional that so many relationships are poor; so many women are prepared to put up with so much shit and so many men are just appalling? Yet so many seem to also want a relationship.

I don't hate men. I have a son and some very close male friends I have good relationships with. But i have given up completely on ever having a mutually respectful, loving relationship now.

Mens as friends, family, colleagues are great. Men in a relationship? Just no.

I just wondered how other people feel.

In agreement here too. I've had some awful relationships, been on a number of dates and noticed red flags.

I thought I just attracted not so great men.

I too have a number of male friends, some are slime balls and others I'm just not inclined that way.

Women can be just as bad as men, so overall relationship wise here are my thoughts:

We live in a society where we accept being treated less than we should, possibly stemming from our own insecurities/downfalls. Are we really willing to support and stand by someone through their struggles? Most people would run a mile.

Communication and thoughtfulness lacks.

People have become lazy and put in less and less effort possibly because everything is at their finger tips, if you can order a pizza or a new telly at the click of a button from your sofa, then why bother going out on a date and actually communicating with your partner?

Emojis and thoughtless texts are replaced with a deep meaningful conversation.

Maybe we get into relationships or date for the wrong reasons.

Expectations out weigh reality.

But hey, I'm heartbroken so my opinion is bias.

Maybe there are good men out there that actually want a committed, strong relationship, a lot of people just aren't willing to put in the work.

@AnotherStupidQuestion

Besides, even if all the women decided to dump all the awful men and be happily single, it still doesnt solve the issue of men's appalling behaviour.

Surely it would solve it, as the awful men would then have noone to behave that way to so the behaviour would, by definition, have to stop?

Surely it would solve it, as the awful men would then have noone to behave that way to so the behaviour would, by definition, have to stop?

I reckon the awful men would just re-disguise as nice men and the cycle would perpetuate tbh.

Yeah I think men would be forced to change their behaviour if women didn’t put up with it

Our opinions, thoughts and behaviours are formed based on what we have experienced. I remember as a child my mum flitted from one bad relationship to another, it was all very toxic, fraught. That has undoubtedly shaped my behaviours and what I have subsequently looked for in a man. I have a strong, respectful, grounded dh who has been brought up well and values women. He’s the sahd, cook, cleaner, and loves that I am the main earner but we work as a team and support each other. We both set our bars high and it pays off. I do agree that if you can’t find someone that meets your needs you’re better off single.

@hyunasthebest Is there a dads net? There should be!!

Yes there is. Go to the topics list its there

whatwouldscullydo -

I'm reminded of the hannah gatsby speech where she stated that the good guys need the bad guys and that they don't realky do anything about it because without the bad guys they wouldn't be able to prove themselves to be the good guys

What would you have the "good guys" do about it? They're not responsible for the bad guys' actions and don't have power over them. This reads a bit like the idea that all muslims are responsible for suicide bombings.

There is, LaVie, look in the wee forums section (I think under "In the Club"!) Much less activity on there though IIRC.

What would you have the "good guys" do about it?

I imagine calling out the bad blokes when they demonstrate shitty / sexist etc behaviour.

More that they don't call it out.

So if you say had a group of friends out together and one was acting like a complete dick would you a) still be friends with someone like that , I mean why be friends with a dickhead I mean I certainly wouldn't be. Or do you b) apologise fir your "mate" and use the "mutual disgust" as the way in with who you are trying to chat up.

@AnotherStupidQuestion

I even got a dick pic off a male, married friend.

I got a dick pic from a male married friend on christmas day a couple of years ago.

Astonishingly, I've never felt the need to send a photo of my genitals toa married man though.

The thing is, though, that those men are relying on you not dobbing them in to their wives and to mutual friends. If every woman who received a photo like that circulated it to everyone or even let it be known that it had been sent, then they might think twice.

Yeah I think men would be forced to change their behaviour if women didn’t put up with it

Some may do, but I think what many overlook here is that a lot of men just don't want committed monogamous relationships in the way that women do. So many wouldn't bother and would just stick to porn. There's already the whole MGTOW thing around giving up relationships with women altogether.

If you were really against sexist derogatory behaviour why would you be out with someone who is just like that?

You'd have dumped them as a friend the first time they "joked" about spiking someone drink or not caring if they were conscious?

I think it is due to in part society and the value society places on men vs women (and other minorities) and the way boys are raised. I don’t think women realise the power they have to influence their sons and that power is certainly both not supported nor is it recognised by society. Because al hell would break loose if it were.
The Jesuits say... give me a child for seven years... and that basically means they can and will shape the mind values and character within that timeframe. What if we as women took that timeframe and used it to our and humanities advantage by bring in and influencing those views and values so that the future men of this country would be the catalysts of change?

Obviously you can only judge peoples' actions (or inaction) as individuals. I could never be friends with someone who joked about spiking drinks and shagging unconscious women, in the same way I can't be friends with racists and homophobes. I certainly call out all those things when I see them, but I don't have any more personal power to stop them than women do.

I actually wonder whether it is just a case of women can spot the problems better now.
When I think about men in their 80s or older/those who are no longer with us, their flaws were quite easy to spot.
But their wives appeared to have taken a long time to suss, or when they did, chose to do a put up with it routine.

I certainly call out all those things when I see them, but I don't have any more personal power to stop them than women do.

Calling them out is putting in the effort to stop them, many blokes don't do that (either out of social nicety or agreement or thinking it's "laddish" or whatever). Calling out someone for shitty behaviour is enough, in my book.

@LaVieestBelleNestCePas

I think it is due to in part society and the value society places on men vs women (and other minorities) and the way boys are raised. I don’t think women realise the power they have to influence their sons and that power is certainly both not supported nor is it recognised by society. Because al hell would break loose if it were. The Jesuits say... give me a child for seven years... and that basically means they can and will shape the mind values and character within that timeframe. What if we as women took that timeframe and used it to our and humanities advantage by bring in and influencing those views and values so that the future men of this country would be the catalysts of change?

But women - as mothers, nannies, early years teachers etc. etc. - have always done by the far the greater part of bringing up son all through human history. If that were the answer, how would they not have achieved it already?

@hyunasthebest

This is Mumsnet, not Dadsnet. Can't you take your ignorance elsewhere?

It’s ignorant to put in a different view?

And I’m the ignorant one ? 🤣

Yeah I think men would be forced to change their behaviour if women didn’t put up with it

Women are not rehabilitation centres for faulty men. We are bombarded with messages in life that women are the weaker sex, hysterical yet also that women must be responsible for a man's behaviour, so which is it? Are we delicate little flowers or strong enough to shoulder all the burdens of the world? Can't be both.

I work full time, study part time, spent too much time messing about online, am expected to do caring duties for anyone that needs it, without having any needs of my own, I am expected to be Nigella in the kitchen, Jordan in the bedroom, always be Kardashian ready for my close up, Mother Theresa in the community and all without asking for anything. I am exhausted and have no time left to fix faulty men that think I am worth less than them.Fuck that.

@hyunasthebest

Women do not systemically oppress men. There is a patriarchy not a matriarchy. Statistically men are much more likely to be violent, abusers and abandon their children. Yes, some individual women can be shitty too but not the majority. The majority of men treat women terribly.

Thank you.

No time for NAMALT posts

It's just Whatabouttery, Maca and ignorant or not, it's annoying. You can mention your issues without it being a counterpoint to someone else's.

I dont hold people responsible fir the actions of others.but they are responsible for their own actions or lack there of when something happens.

You can say you are as disgusted at someones behaviour as much as you want if next Friday night you are back.out with the same person who apparently you are apparently so disgusted by then its meaningless ...

I would assume that either you didn't disagree with them as much as you claim. Or you in fact benefit from being able to "rescue" the victims of their disgusting behaviour

Women are not rehabilitation centres for faulty men. We are bombarded with messages in life that women are the weaker sex, hysterical yet also that women must be responsible for a man's behaviour, so which is it? Are we delicate little flowers or strong enough to shoulder all the burdens of the world? Can't be both.

I work full time, study part time, spent too much time messing about online, am expected to do caring duties for anyone that needs it, without having any needs of my own, I am expected to be Nigella in the kitchen, Jordan in the bedroom, always be Kardashian ready for my close up, Mother Theresa in the community and all without asking for anything. I am exhausted and have no time left to fix faulty men that think I am worth less than them.Fuck that

👏👏👏👏👏 Yep, ALL of this