What happened to men?

[AnotherStupidQuestion]

There have been a few threads along this line recently. I don't have anything new to add really; I'm just surprised that there are so many crap men about.

I've been single for a decade. In that time, I dated a bit and had a few flings but nothing that constituted a relationship.

Even men who seem decent on the surface are hiding some deeply unattractive qualities just beneath the surface.

It's got to the point where, even on the Tell me about your lovely man threads on here, my cynical voice is asking, "But what do you not know about?"; "What's he keeping from you?; "What are you tolerating that I wouldn't?"

I know the answer is patriarchy and misogyny but I wonder how we, as a species, have become so dysfunctional that so many relationships are poor; so many women are prepared to put up with so much shit and so many men are just appalling? Yet so many seem to also want a relationship.

I don't hate men. I have a son and some very close male friends I have good relationships with. But i have given up completely on ever having a mutually respectful, loving relationship now.

Mens as friends, family, colleagues are great. Men in a relationship? Just no.

I just wondered how other people feel.

How i.put my foot in it

Luckily I'm old enough to be invisible now. Fir the most part...

I only seem to be visible to married men and wankers!

@Seafog

I guess I am lucky, married to a good man, raised a good man, and my family and circle of friends are full of good men. Tbf, I don't know many single men, and I am not saying there are twerps out there, but dang, what a negative attitude!

But this is the thing. I can't say for certain, as I've obviously not met your circle of friends, but even ones who purport to be 'good men' are often doing something behind their partners back.

I have a number of married couples on my social media, and the amount of 'happily' married men who are equally happy to send me slimy messages about how they 'still would' or worse, astounds me. And the next thing I'll see is a post from their partner about how loved up they are. But to their wives and girlfriends, these are the so called 'good ones'. It's depressing AF.

If a man and woman interact and don’t connect psychologically, who’s to say that that’s because of an inability to do so on the man’s part? Surely all you can say is that those two individuals failed to do so together.

I have a number of married couples on my social media, and the amount of 'happily' married men who are equally happy to send me slimy messages about how they 'still would' or worse, astounds me. And the next thing I'll see is a post from their partner about how loved up they are. But to their wives and girlfriends, these are the so called 'good ones'. It's depressing AF

Been there 2... I'm the ugly fat cow no one touches too...they clearly just want their ego stroking

@Whatwouldscullydo

I never questioned the house I never fought for the house because why would I see my children on the street?

I think the poster meant why didbt you take the kids full time and stay in the house

I raised the topic with family and was met with a firm “no you don’t make the the children leave their mother” is that old fashioned?

In all honesty I was very naive with our divorce I sought no legal advice as to what my rights were.

My first priority was making sure everything was as least stressful for my eldest daughter she was 6 at the time and I could tell things were impacting on her.

I just need another year then fingers crossed I’ll have my own place. I could rent sure, I’d much rather have something to leave for my daughters.

Because at the end of the day my girls are all that matter now

Putthegasfireon

Same here. The most devoted family man I know, whose wife trusts him implicitly, tried it on with me and I know he has a couple of attractive young women he meets for 'coffee'.

He justifies it because they give him the sort of 'coffee' his wife doesn't like and he has no intentions of leaving her so it's all good then 🤷🏻‍♀️

@AnotherStupidQuestion

I would just like to meet a man who...

Doesn't expect me to look/behave like a porn star or an instagram model.

Communicates effectively and respectfully.

Is honest.

Is kind.

Cares about me.

Doesn't suggest unless some weight after a month or so when I'm a size 10.

Doesn't gawp at ever passing 20something woman.

Doesn't make derogatory remarks.

Doesn't feel emasculated if incan do something they can't.

Doesn't ignore my boundaries.

Actually likes me!

My comments from the male perspective:

All of my male friends are perfectly nice and most have lovely wives. My friends and I can meet all of those criteria. Except the not gawping at 20 year old women. I mean, come on, it's human nature. If a nice looking woman walks by it's nigh on impossible not to look.
Don't you ever check out a good looking man? 😅

I understand that I do.

But I do find it quite a common theme from.the people I have met that they are happy to leave their kids with their exs and get on with theor own lives. You woukd think if these women are as bad as the men were making out then they'd have the kids themselves. They make excuse after excuse why they don't see the kids very much but never do anything about it.

To me that doesn't add up. Either your ex really is an.evil money grabbing witch who's an unfit mother in which case you'd take emergency accommodation ir your grandads sofa if it meant they were safe with you, or they are making excuses...

I don't know the answer but I wholeheartedly believe that the majority of men - certainly the ones I know of anyway - are very very damaged. They behave in totally unacceptable ways, even the most average man thinks he is God's gift and they are usually threatened by strong, successful women.

I'm aware of everything from cheating, substance abuse, not supporting their kids, living double lives, problems with sex (no doubt porn related), criminal records, lying, scamming and pretty much anything else you can think of. I'm led to believe 'women are as bad' but really? I'd like to think it was only a minority whereas every man seems to be at best weak and spineless and at worst take your pick from the above.

My own experiences are awful but that's not just my bad luck - I know countless women my age (40s) who are with these losers. I count myself lucky to have been dumped by the one I fell for but others are still hanging in there believing they'll change and putting up with so much less than they deserve.

I hate the idea of being single forever but for the sake of my own self respect and sanity I cant see any alternative. It's thoroughly depressing.

I raised the topic with family and was met with a firm “no you don’t make the the children leave their mother” is that old fashioned

It is. But it's also part of the problem and not your or your family's fault for feeling/thinking like that.

If men's role as parent was valued more and women weren't demonized for failing to be 'motherly' and 'kind' (I'll add self sacrificing to that) then I think we'd see far more equality in parenting amongst many other things post divorce.

My ex is a very different sort of parent to me. Not better or worse, just different. But society permits him to turn his back on it in a way it would have vilified me for doing.

But that's the patriarchy for you.

Don't you ever check out a good looking man?

Not when I'm with a boyfriend because its disrespectful. And my life isn't going to be eternally diminished because I didn't fully appreciate the beauty of a stranger in front of someone who might be upset by it 🤷🏻‍♀️

@AnotherStupidQuestion

How do I treat women? Why women? Why not ask the question how do I treat people in general?

Because many men treat men and women differently.

Even those who say they don't.

Due to my living situation and my shifts I only get to have my kids to stay over once a month but I see them almost on a daily basis I do school pick ups and and take them out, I feed them and I buy them clothes and toys I wouldn’t have it any other way but my point is I’m not subsidised by my ex for doing those things but I still pay maintenance every week

But you are not 'subsiding' your ex. You are supporting your children.

I never questioned the house I never fought for the house because why would I see my children on the street?

But you sound so bitter about it?

If it is something you did willingly because you wanted the best for them, then surely you feel it is fair?

Like I said, my post wasn't about how fair divorce is. Or how fair it is perceived to be by each party.

It was about my experiences of men I've dated in the last 10 years.

Maybe you do treat the women in your life as equals and with respect. In which case, you're clearly not one of the men I've dated!

I think I am bitter sometimes because hindsight is a wonderful thing and if I didn’t go back the second time I’d be in my own house years ago.

Oh well look to the future etc

Oh, no I totally get your post and I apologise for going wildly off topic 😂

The way they’re raised?

I hate the idea of being single forever but for the sake of my own self respect and sanity I cant see any alternative. It's thoroughly depressing.

That's exactly where I am.

I have to be honest, I've been realy shocked by my experiences with some of them because, onthebsurface and to everyone else, they are exactly what I am looking for.

Except, you scratch the very thin veneer and they're not.

@AnotherStupidQuestion

I raised the topic with family and was met with a firm “no you don’t make the the children leave their mother” is that old fashioned

It is. But it's also part of the problem and not your or your family's fault for feeling/thinking like that.

If men's role as parent was valued more and women weren't demonized for failing to be 'motherly' and 'kind' (I'll add self sacrificing to that) then I think we'd see far more equality in parenting amongst many other things post divorce.

My ex is a very different sort of parent to me. Not better or worse, just different. But society permits him to turn his back on it in a way it would have vilified me for doing.

But that's the patriarchy for you.

what great (but sad) way to sum things up about how society is with this topic.

Oh, no I totally get your post and I apologise for going wildly off topic

Tbh, it helps to share ideas, thoughts and experiences. It's how we learn.

I would be interested in your thoughts though on why I, and so many other women, are experiencing such poor behaviour from men.

I'm 45. The last man I dated was 53. He took a great deal of pleasure in telling pelle inwas 10nyears younger than him (I wasn't) and he once bemoaned the fact women weren't interested in him. To me. His girlfriend.

It transpired that what he meant was the sort of women he wanted (hot 25 year olds) weren't interested in him.

I just wasn't good enough 🤷🏻‍♀️

Oh, and I dumped him.

Where are you guys all hanging out? I don’t know any men like the ones described here.

Get a job in a bar...you'd be surprised what the customers will tell you...

I had a one year relationship with a lovely guy (30) - he was respectful, kind, caring. We broke up early last year and he was immediately all over online dating, sexting women off hookup apps, and watching porn. We hooked up again as a one-off towards the end of the year, and what a change - very porny, all about the male gaze, with very little interest or effort in me getting my kicks. I can only put that down to a diet of porn and seeing women as a replaceable stream of hookups. I said as much and he at least looked shocked ... but ick!

Maybe men don’t want to be domesticated, for want of a better word. Some women similar. To my mind men are mostly about “work” and happier outside the home. Porn also doesn’t help and it’s everywhere in some form sadly - real women and real women’s bodies are less valued and venerated. Anyway, Women should let them be and stop trying to get them into relationships. As judge Judy said, it’s slim pickings out there. If you want a real romantic relationship or children I guess that’s hard, but what’s the alternative?

AnotherStupidQuestion - just because it's the right thing (or feels like it) doesn't make it 'fair'.

Family law is still grossly unfair in this supposed age of equality but that's ok right when it favours the woman?

A lot of women have a 'I want my cake and eat it attitude ' then wonder why men disengage / switch off.

I’m just looking at things matter of factly there btw, the bare bones of my experience if you like. I’m much more empathetic in real life but it hasn’t got me anywhere

AnotherStupidQuestion - just because it's the right thing (or feels like it) doesn't make it 'fair'.

I'm not sue what you're referring to here. I haven't said anything is right or fair.

Family law is still grossly unfair in this supposed age of equality but that's ok right when it favours the woman?

I haven't said that either.

In fact, that's not what i think at all.

I know a couple of men who were granted residency of the children because their ex partners were unable to adequately care for them and they had to fight really hard to be taken seriously.

I also know a SAHD who was shunned by the mums at parent same toddler groups.

But the root of those problems is the same.

Amd, again, family law was not the subject of the thread.

A lot of women have a 'I want my cake and eat it attitude ' then wonder why men disengage / switch off.

I don't know any and it certainly doesn't describe me.