What happened to men?

[AnotherStupidQuestion]

There have been a few threads along this line recently. I don't have anything new to add really; I'm just surprised that there are so many crap men about.

I've been single for a decade. In that time, I dated a bit and had a few flings but nothing that constituted a relationship.

Even men who seem decent on the surface are hiding some deeply unattractive qualities just beneath the surface.

It's got to the point where, even on the Tell me about your lovely man threads on here, my cynical voice is asking, "But what do you not know about?"; "What's he keeping from you?; "What are you tolerating that I wouldn't?"

I know the answer is patriarchy and misogyny but I wonder how we, as a species, have become so dysfunctional that so many relationships are poor; so many women are prepared to put up with so much shit and so many men are just appalling? Yet so many seem to also want a relationship.

I don't hate men. I have a son and some very close male friends I have good relationships with. But i have given up completely on ever having a mutually respectful, loving relationship now.

Mens as friends, family, colleagues are great. Men in a relationship? Just no.

I just wondered how other people feel.

How do you raise your own son. Which values?

I agree OP. Now that I have had DC I think I will stay single for the rest of my days. I just wasn't treated like an equal human being in my relationship.

I look at friends with long term relationships, they seem happy on the outside. But once you scratch beneath the surface there is so much compromise - not always on the woman's side I must say.

I don't think Givemeabreak88 was suggesting that women take responsibility for rehabilitating men. In fact I think she was suggesting the opposite, that women just stop enabling them and get on with their lives without them. Men can then go through whatever rehabilitation they need on their own and come back with a more acceptable level of behaviour, or not.

Makes sense to me.

You just can’t put all men into the same category though! It’s a very sweeping statement ! I know heaps of great men in relationships and have a great one myself.

I have to say though I’ve seen a few female friends put up with shite from men over the years and I’ve no idea why they let themselves get treated like that! It’s like have some respect for yourself?

Part of the problem is some men get away wit crappy behaviour tbh

It’s online porn. Patriarchy has always been a factor but not until the last 10-20 years has the dehumanisation and degradation of women - and I’m talking extreme graphic imagery here, not Page 3 type stuff - been available to men and boys from their earliest age, at the click of a button. I don’t understand why our society isn’t talking about this more. It’s a massive problem.

Thank you FifteenToes yes that’s exactly what I meant, I don’t think women should be responsible for men’s behaviour at all, but if more women stopped ignoring clear red flags (usually from very early on as well) and stopped putting up with bad behaviour from men, rather than seemingly being desperate to stay with then man no matter what, then I’m sure more men would be forced to change their way, yes not all men but whilst they are getting away with it nothing will change.

@Misandrylovescompany

It’s online porn. Patriarchy has always been a factor but not until the last 10-20 years has the dehumanisation and degradation of women - and I’m talking extreme graphic imagery here, not Page 3 type stuff - been available to men and boys from their earliest age, at the click of a button. I don’t understand why our society isn’t talking about this more. It’s a massive problem.

This. Porn has ruined my generation and I would honestly rather be single my entire life than settle for the average guy in my age-range.

It's not spoken about more because any time a woman tries to criticise the porn industry she is called a sex negative, 'kink-shaming' prude. Andrea Dworkin predicted that porn would be used to normalise the commodification of and extreme violence towards women. She was so right.

@Maca07166

From a male point of view I’ll just say this.

Because women are completely perfect and innocent right?

I’m a woman and I agree with you!! It’s not a “man” or “woman” issue! It’s a “people” in general issue! I know lots of lovely men and women and I equally know lots of assholes both male and female!

Overall, I think we are getting better.

Men can be treated badly in relationships and shafted.

This seems to be another thread where the basic assumption is women act well in relationships but not men.

Our role post separation is to provide financial support,possibly the family home (as was) and perform our minor Support role as Disney Dad.

You just despair reading these threads.

I'm single too OP. When I was growing up despite not having a dad I had so many wonderful male role models, my grandfather, uncles, their friends.
Now I can't think of one single bloke I know who commands my respect and admiration.
Sorry but they have changed, I don't know why.

The reason why women don't leave shitty relationships? Trauma bonding.

It is ignorant to have a different view that is poorly informed, yes @Maca07166. If we were having am discussion about horses and I piped up with well horses hate carrots don't you know, yes I would be ignorant with my differing view because it is obviously wrong.

Men are living in this bizarre state of cognitive dissonance in which they’re being repeatedly told that their mothers, sisters, lovers, friends and colleagues - people they are closest to, those they seek mutual human warmth and support and love from - are actually the extreme, degraded, pornified images they see online. It’s a really horrible mindset to grow up into and I genuinely suspect that a lot of men are simply unable to relate to women as truly human as a consequence of this dissonance. It’s a form of online radicalisation which deserves to be taken seriously as a social problem and it’s incumbent primarily on men to see what’s going on and battle against it. Men need to decide they don’t want to live like this! That’s their responsibility.

So @another as you are tarring all men with the same brush, you expect your son will be a useless, horrendous partner, with no idea how to manage a relationship with a woman?

Completely agree with you.

When you’re taught to see someone else as an object you lose your ability to empathise with them. They become less than a person to you. And that’s what a lot of men lack, thanks to extreme porn - any sense of empathy for others, particularly women.

I think men watched their mums at home, the dad earning enough money to buy a house and thought women were the carers.
People got used to their higher incomes pre moving out of home, so maybe a decade of mum still doing it all , and massive spending power.
Then they moving in and share expenses, but a lot of the housework still falls to the female, when the children arrive and their wages are needed to help pay for their child they resent it, resent suddenly being expected to step up and not game, drink party.

I think it varies by age.

I'm in my 50s and a majority of men in my age group still expect their woman to cook/clean etc. Some don't but too many do. And for some reason, they think it's ok for them to go to seed but still expect their woman to be slim and well dressed. Obviously not all of them but a lot.

I have my own pension, my own home, I don't need a meal ticket. I want a relationship as equals. My single life is too good to give up for anything less.

I.believe in.NI right now there is a consultation trying to end the rough sex defence.

According to their statistics 38 percent if women under 40 have experienced unwanted choking during sex.

We have definitely seen a rise this.

Im in England but I'm.sure a few cases have made the papers here too

Soas you are tarring all men with the same brush, you expect your son will be a useless, horrendous partner, with no idea how to manage a relationship with a woman?

Not at all.

I brought him up well. He's and adult and has had 2 relationships of around 18 months each.

Tbh, the breakdowns in both of those were down to the women. One had a psychotic breakdown for reasons unconnected to him and was hospitalised for it. He supported her the best he could but it became too much for him and wasn't benefiting her in the end. Her family thanked him for the support he had shown to her. But that wasn't her fault, nor a choice she made and it was incredibly sad for all concerned. She was lovely.

The other had unmanaged mental health problems. Threatened (and tried) suicide when he got a place at and then began university. I was actually really proud of the way in which he conducted himself in those relationships many times. He was kind and respectful. And I knownthis from some of the things the women said to me.

He isn't dating at the moment because he's in his final year of university and doesn't think it is fair together involved with anyone when he is so busy this year and plans to work abroad (covid permitting) when it ends.

But my experience is that i have not met men who behave like him.

I can only speak from own experience and I have yet to meet a man who has treated me with genuine respect.

@Misandrylovescompany

Men are living in this bizarre state of cognitive dissonance in which they’re being repeatedly told that their mothers, sisters, lovers, friends and colleagues - people they are closest to, those they seek mutual human warmth and support and love from - are actually the extreme, degraded, pornified images they see online. It’s a really horrible mindset to grow up into and I genuinely suspect that a lot of men are simply unable to relate to women as truly human as a consequence of this dissonance. It’s a form of online radicalisation which deserves to be taken seriously as a social problem and it’s incumbent primarily on men to see what’s going on and battle against it. Men need to decide they don’t want to live like this! That’s their responsibility.

Then how come we see threads on here from women who say their relationship has always been great in every way, including sexually, but then one day they discovered their partner's porn secret and now they can't accept it, find it troubling, don't know what to think etc.

There's a difference between having a different set of priorities, desires and aspirations that conflict with those of women and thereby contribute to relationship problems, and being "unable to relate to women as truly human". I'm sure there are some men of whom the latter is true, but it's not the norm for everyone just because they watch porn.

@Misandrylovescompany

Men are living in this bizarre state of cognitive dissonance in which they’re being repeatedly told that their mothers, sisters, lovers, friends and colleagues - people they are closest to, those they seek mutual human warmth and support and love from - are actually the extreme, degraded, pornified images they see online. It’s a really horrible mindset to grow up into and I genuinely suspect that a lot of men are simply unable to relate to women as truly human as a consequence of this dissonance. It’s a form of online radicalisation which deserves to be taken seriously as a social problem and it’s incumbent primarily on men to see what’s going on and battle against it. Men need to decide they don’t want to live like this! That’s their responsibility.

I couldn’t agree more. I’d also add that many men, even in their twenties, can’t even sustain an erection or ejaculate due to too much porn and death grip syndrome.