What happened to men?

[AnotherStupidQuestion]

There have been a few threads along this line recently. I don't have anything new to add really; I'm just surprised that there are so many crap men about.

I've been single for a decade. In that time, I dated a bit and had a few flings but nothing that constituted a relationship.

Even men who seem decent on the surface are hiding some deeply unattractive qualities just beneath the surface.

It's got to the point where, even on the Tell me about your lovely man threads on here, my cynical voice is asking, "But what do you not know about?"; "What's he keeping from you?; "What are you tolerating that I wouldn't?"

I know the answer is patriarchy and misogyny but I wonder how we, as a species, have become so dysfunctional that so many relationships are poor; so many women are prepared to put up with so much shit and so many men are just appalling? Yet so many seem to also want a relationship.

I don't hate men. I have a son and some very close male friends I have good relationships with. But i have given up completely on ever having a mutually respectful, loving relationship now.

Mens as friends, family, colleagues are great. Men in a relationship? Just no.

I just wondered how other people feel.

That's a shame you've never felt genuinely respected, Op but how is your son a great partner but all other men aren't? In your opinion.

I feel the same to be honest. I have a few lovely male friends who i truly value, I can't imagine any of them sending dick picks to anyone. However I am perturbed by the culture of male entitlement that seems dominant in society . I can therefore I will, not should I. I'm probably going to remain single for this reason, unless something completely unexpected happens. I'd rather maintain my sense of wellbeing, nurture myself and my friends and family than be subject to misogyny and power struggles in my own home every again.

@AnotherStupidQuestion

Soas you are tarring all men with the same brush, you expect your son will be a useless, horrendous partner, with no idea how to manage a relationship with a woman?

Not at all.

I brought him up well. He's and adult and has had 2 relationships of around 18 months each.

Tbh, the breakdowns in both of those were down to the women. One had a psychotic breakdown for reasons unconnected to him and was hospitalised for it. He supported her the best he could but it became too much for him and wasn't benefiting her in the end. Her family thanked him for the support he had shown to her. But that wasn't her fault, nor a choice she made and it was incredibly sad for all concerned. She was lovely.

The other had unmanaged mental health problems. Threatened (and tried) suicide when he got a place at and then began university. I was actually really proud of the way in which he conducted himself in those relationships many times. He was kind and respectful. And I knownthis from some of the things the women said to me.

He isn't dating at the moment because he's in his final year of university and doesn't think it is fair together involved with anyone when he is so busy this year and plans to work abroad (covid permitting) when it ends.

But my experience is that i have not met men who behave like him.

I can only speak from own experience and I have yet to meet a man who has treated me with genuine respect.

OP I don't want to across as "teH mEnZ" or whatever, but I was brought up by a strongly feminist mother too. I know for a fact she believes she "brought me up well" too.

I'm not going to comment on whether she's right or wrong to believe that. But are you - and others here - willing to point the finger at her and say she's wrong, because - like horses hating carrots - its "obviously wrong"?

What happened? Women’s equality.

Women are free to talk about bad things and, having an income, find it easier to leave. They also have more freedom to walk away if another relationship fail.

Men have learned that women are their equals so they don’t expect women to be the little wife that needs protection, they want them to go halves, share the burden and stay on their own feet... offing forgetting that motherhood throws away the idea of “equality” when someone has to become the primary carer of the kids and the other the primary earner.

You may think that men are becoming horrible but it is just that women are more outspoken and put up with less rubbish today. But men can tell you as well how horrible women are becoming but often hide their thoughts and feelings because they are still raised to keep their mouth shut when it comes to being victimised or used by women.

@hyunasthebest

It is ignorant to have a different view that is poorly informed, yes *@Maca07166*. If we were having am discussion about horses and I piped up with well horses hate carrots don't you know, yes I would be ignorant with my differing view because it is obviously wrong.

Poorly informed on what basis?

I spoke from the other side of the fence and you didn’t like what I had to say and I’m ignorant.

Hilarious.

@Wibble01

Men can be treated badly in relationships and shafted.

This seems to be another thread where the basic assumption is women act well in relationships but not men.

Our role post separation is to provide financial support,possibly the family home (as was) and perform our minor Support role as Disney Dad.

You just despair reading these threads.

The paragraph at what role we play is exactly how it is.

I’m 37 she got the home because let’s face it if I kicked her and my kids out I’d be crucified by everyone.

I provide for my kids via child maintenance which is absolutely right but when the kids come to me for a weekend or whenever I pick them up who gives me money for the kids?

Me and my ex got back together for a brief period and she openly admitted numerous times that financially she was worse off because she didn’t have my child maintenance coming through still and the tax credits had been cut to almost nothing.

Oh and then finally we have our Disney Dad role to play at the weekend.

Yep you really do despair at threads like these.

I've only dated two men I believed when they said they didn't use porn.

It was obvious from the sex they wanted and the way they interacted with me during sex that that was the case.

Porn makes men very disconnected during sex. They do it to you rather than with you.

And even men who are quite sweet at every other time behave quite differently when sex is concerned. Put bluntly, t beat it's boring and at worst it's horrible.

I don't want to 'lie back and think of England'. I want sex to be fun. I dont want to be the passive recipient of someone's cock! But unless you're happy to be flipped around at their will, have no communication, and have their hands put around your throat, sex seems to he a non starter.

Oh and foreplay that involves him sticking a few fingers inside you, only touching you for his pleasure and not yours...

Tbh, inhad better sex when inwas in my late teens and early twenties with inexperienced men than I do now. At least we were doing it together!

Wwll surely need to look somewhat at the values instilled to then from when they were young

How many parents allow their boys to play computer games inappropriate for their age, exposing them to stuff they aren't ready for.

These men weren't born this way.

And after getting back together after the divorce I used what money I’d been saving for a deposit on the “family home and other things”

How stupid I was the house was in her name I hadn’t got a leg to stand on because whenever things didn’t go her way the comment of “it’s my name on the deed now” came out 3 times in the 3 years we were back together.

What did I come out with? Diddly squat and now she wonders why I can’t have the kids over for a sleep over every weekend when I’m back living at my parents saving for another deposit.

Yes we men are the worst of the worst 🙄

I provide for my kids via child maintenance which is absolutely right but when the kids come to me for a weekend or whenever I pick them up who gives me money for the kids?

When you use the online calculator for child support it takes into account how often you have the kids overnight .

I guess I am lucky, married to a good man, raised a good man, and my family and circle of friends are full of good men.
Tbf, I don't know many single men, and I am not saying there are twerps out there, but dang, what a negative attitude!

I’m 37 she got the home because let’s face it if I kicked her and my kids out I’d be crucified by everyone.

Surely, if you had had the children for the majority of the time, then you would have stayed in the house? Did you not want your children to continue living in their home?

I provide for my kids via child maintenance which is absolutely right but when the kids come to me for a weekend or whenever I pick them up who gives me money for the kids?

The amount of maintenance you pay should reflect the time you spend with your children. My ex paid less because he had our son 2 nights a fortnight than he would had he not had them at all.

Me and my ex got back together for a brief period and she openly admitted numerous times that financially she was worse off because she didn’t have my child maintenance coming through still and the tax credits had been cut to almost nothing.
That's because, when you are in a relationship, you are both expected to support your family.

Oh and then finally we have our Disney Dad role to play at the weekend.

You don't have to be Disney Dad though. You can be a proper parent who educates your child, does their laundry, arranges arranged appointments...

I would have loved it if my ex had wanted to be a 50/50 parent but he didn't. Every appointment was arranged by me, every sick day was covered by me. The amount heblaid in maintenance was far less than he would have spent had he lived with us full time.

I tried to keep my ex in the loop as much as possible but he stopped attending parents evenings and performances etc very early on. That was his choice and not mine.

He saw the maintenance he paid as being in lieu of parenting. He would rather have paid the money ams not had to think about it.

Yep you really do despair at threads like these.

How do you treat women generally? That's a genuine question and not an accusation!

The same can be said for a lot of women..

You simply cant say ALL MEN because it isnt true, Im a decent sort and I know more men that are genuine decent guys than lying cheating horrible males.

@AnotherStupidQuestion

Interesting.

I’ve had lots of good, fun, respectful, sex with ahem a fair few men. That hasn’t ever been the issue for me.

I HAVE found almost every man I’ve been in a serious relationship with to be emotionally stunted or in some way psychologically unable to connect though.

Am now a single parent, haven’t been in a relationship since I was with my DS’ father 4 years ago.

I miss sex, I miss long chats over a bottle of wine and I really miss flirting. I miss dating tbh.

I do NOT miss relationships. And am not looking for one. What would suit me (and I think importantly my DS) best would be an open relationship with someone I can trust/consider a friend, with no prospect of it becoming more than sex and dating. A fwb I suppose.

I wouldn’t want anyone to be a step dad to my DS (or even meet him probably) and don’t want to take on anyone else’s family.

I might be strange, but that’s the dream.

Maca07166

Tbf, I agree with you that it's hard to find parity in/following divorce for a number of reasons.

My ex certainly came out of it financially better off than I did. Would he agree he was better off overall? I don't know, tbh! Possibly not. I know he doesn't have such a good relationship with our son as I do and feels he missed out on the day to day experience of parenting. But he has more disposable income than i do, more free time and freedom to choose what he does with that time than I do. In your assessment of it, you haven't considered the impact on her earning potential, her career, her social life. I know that,as the resident parent, my son featured first and foremost in every decision I made. I prioritised him over myself. His dad did not do the same.

Divorce is equally hard on both parties for different reasons.

But that's not really what my initial post was about.

It was more to do with the experiences I've had with men outside of the person I divorced. Just the attitude towards women that I have experienced from men I've dated generally.

You simply cant say ALL MEN because it isnt true, Im a decent sort and I know more men that are genuine decent guys than lying cheating horrible males.

I can only speak from experience.

Plus, as I've said myself, I have a lot of very good male friends. The relationship you have with friends is very different to the relationship you have with a partner.

I HAVE found almost every man I’ve been in a serious relationship with to be emotionally stunted or in some way psychologically unable to connect though

Oh god yes.

I mean I always went fir older men in the hope of bypassing this problem. But there were always so many "issues" I didn't expect at 21 to have to "mother" a 36 year old incapable of sorting their own shit out.

I also wondered i have to say, looking back just what a 26 yr old man wanted with a 16 yr old. ..

I still struggle to connect with men my own age yet at the same time the older ones I've met through work have absolutely zero shame with what they say/do

I think I'm fucked really. I'm only recently single so not looking for anything right now anyway but its probably just as well..

@AnotherStupidQuestion

I’m 37 she got the home because let’s face it if I kicked her and my kids out I’d be crucified by everyone.

Surely, if you had had the children for the majority of the time, then you would have stayed in the house? Did you not want your children to continue living in their home?

I provide for my kids via child maintenance which is absolutely right but when the kids come to me for a weekend or whenever I pick them up who gives me money for the kids?

The amount of maintenance you pay should reflect the time you spend with your children. My ex paid less because he had our son 2 nights a fortnight than he would had he not had them at all.

Me and my ex got back together for a brief period and she openly admitted numerous times that financially she was worse off because she didn’t have my child maintenance coming through still and the tax credits had been cut to almost nothing.
That's because, when you are in a relationship, you are both expected to support your family.

Oh and then finally we have our Disney Dad role to play at the weekend.

You don't have to be Disney Dad though. You can be a proper parent who educates your child, does their laundry, arranges arranged appointments...

I would have loved it if my ex had wanted to be a 50/50 parent but he didn't. Every appointment was arranged by me, every sick day was covered by me. The amount heblaid in maintenance was far less than he would have spent had he lived with us full time.

I tried to keep my ex in the loop as much as possible but he stopped attending parents evenings and performances etc very early on. That was his choice and not mine.

He saw the maintenance he paid as being in lieu of parenting. He would rather have paid the money ams not had to think about it.

Yep you really do despair at threads like these.

How do you treat women generally? That's a genuine question and not an accusation!

** Surely, if you had had the children for the majority of the time, then you would have stayed in the house? Did you not want your children to continue living in their home?

I never questioned the house I never fought for the house because why would I see my children on the street?

** The amount of maintenance you pay should reflect the time you spend with your children. My ex paid less because he had our son 2 nights a fortnight than he would had he not had them at all.

Due to my living situation and my shifts I only get to have my kids to stay over once a month but I see them almost on a daily basis I do school pick ups and and take them out, I feed them and I buy them clothes and toys I wouldn’t have it any other way but my point is I’m not subsidised by my ex for doing those things but I still pay maintenance every week.

I’m an involved dad my father was not in my life at all and I’ve always sworn no matter what I’ll be involved in my kids lives.

How do you treat women generally? That's a genuine question and not an accusation!

How do I treat women? Why women? Why not ask the question how do I treat people in general?

I treat people how I like to be treated, with respect because I was raised to be a decent human being.

I would just like to meet a man who...

Doesn't expect me to look/behave like a porn star or an instagram model.

Communicates effectively and respectfully.

Is honest.

Is kind.

Cares about me.

Doesn't suggest unless some weight after a month or so when I'm a size 10.

Doesn't gawp at ever passing 20something woman.

Doesn't make derogatory remarks.

Doesn't feel emasculated if incan do something they can't.

Doesn't ignore my boundaries.

Actually likes me!

I never questioned the house I never fought for the house because why would I see my children on the street?

I think the poster meant why didbt you take the kids full time and stay in the house

@Whatwouldscullydo

Are you me?

First boyfriend when I was 16 was 26. (Why didn’t my own mother step in?!) I wrote his CV for him, coached him for interviews and helped him rent his first flat. 🤦🏼‍♀️

A number of men after- all the serious ones 10-25 years older than me. None of them without psychological trauma that they were by and large unwilling to address- whilst I was running in and out of therapists offices trying to be as “whole” and “well” and “together” as I could - because I didn’t want to burden anyone with my shit.

Healthiest relationship and break up I had was with a beautiful chef, who was 21 to my 26. Just a lovely guy and wrong time for both of us. But he was an anomaly.

And don’t get me started on The Marrieds.

I must have a “single” beacon on top of my head that only married men can see...

@AnotherStupidQuestion

Maca07166

Tbf, I agree with you that it's hard to find parity in/following divorce for a number of reasons.

My ex certainly came out of it financially better off than I did. Would he agree he was better off overall? I don't know, tbh! Possibly not. I know he doesn't have such a good relationship with our son as I do and feels he missed out on the day to day experience of parenting. But he has more disposable income than i do, more free time and freedom to choose what he does with that time than I do. In your assessment of it, you haven't considered the impact on her earning potential, her career, her social life. I know that,as the resident parent, my son featured first and foremost in every decision I made. I prioritised him over myself. His dad did not do the same.

Divorce is equally hard on both parties for different reasons.

But that's not really what my initial post was about.

It was more to do with the experiences I've had with men outside of the person I divorced. Just the attitude towards women that I have experienced from men I've dated generally.

Yeah I agree I went off topic sorry 🤣

We earn about the same she is salaried and I am paid per hour but potentially including working overtime I can earn more.

Ah free time yes I get plenty of it but what I wouldn’t give to be able to wind back time knowing what I know now and fix the problems in the relationship early on and maybe we’d still be a family. I miss being a family and that’s the truth 🙁

Thanks for being understanding, I wish you luck in the sea of bad men 😊

How do I treat women? Why women? Why not ask the question how do I treat people in general?

Because many men treat men and women differently.

Even those who say they don't.

Due to my living situation and my shifts I only get to have my kids to stay over once a month but I see them almost on a daily basis I do school pick ups and and take them out, I feed them and I buy them clothes and toys I wouldn’t have it any other way but my point is I’m not subsidised by my ex for doing those things but I still pay maintenance every week

But you are not 'subsiding' your ex. You are supporting your children.

I never questioned the house I never fought for the house because why would I see my children on the street?

But you sound so bitter about it?

If it is something you did willingly because you wanted the best for them, then surely you feel it is fair?

Like I said, my post wasn't about how fair divorce is. Or how fair it is perceived to be by each party.

It was about my experiences of men I've dated in the last 10 years.

Maybe you do treat the women in your life as equals and with respect. In which case, you're clearly not one of the men I've dated!

Ah free time yes I get plenty of it but what I wouldn’t give to be able to wind back time knowing what I know now and fix the problems in the relationship early on and maybe we’d still be a family. I miss being a family and that’s the truth 🙁

Ain't that the truth!

And inthinknthat missing being a family is what a lot of men (because it's usually the men who are the NRP) experience.

Divorce is crap for all.

That's exactly what I had to do.

Not at 16 but the next one when I was 21. Found , arranged viewing for new place and paid deposit and first month's rent. Minimum wage job too.

These men were seemingly fine and coped befire they met us so why so needy then...

I also have zero self confidence so I have e no idea they are even remotely interested until I'm in a situation I then struggle to get out of.

And yes I have come to the conclusion I'm not the one they marry im.the one they sneak home. I talk to everyone the same way really I have no idea how I out my future in it over the years and landed myself being harassed by married men. The.more I told them.to. piss off the more they came back...

Luckily I'm old enough to be invisible now. Fir the most part...