DH came into my office

[Nervousofthed]

Bit of a weird one.

DH and I are wfh at the moment in seperate rooms. We generally leave each other to it, maybe making a tea or lunch for the other.
He often showers in the middle of the day.
After his shower yesterday, he walked into my office in just his towel, insisting that I 'touched it' and dropped his towel. Trying to grab my hand, coming towards me whilst I'm sitting at my desk.
I said no repeatedly and was visibly cringing. He didn't stop, I had to shout 'I really do not like this, just stop!' at which point he did, and laughed it off and insinuating I was a spoil sport. I made it clear it was too much. He's since apologised and acknowledged it was my work space and not OK.

However, that experience seems to have affected me. I am finding it uncomfortable to look at him and talk to him. I've never felt unsafe around him (for context, I was abused as a child), but that encounter made me feel unsafe although it was harmless.

I feel silly that it's had an effect on me. How can I forget about it?

For the women on here saying those who would respond to this by engaging in sex have "low standards" - how do you initiate sex? Do you have a sex calendar? Or do you have a weekly set day?

If you find spontaneity such as this as being inappropriate and assault, do you honestly never try and seduce your partner?

@eileithyiaa Again, it's not the trying to initiate sex that's the problem, it's not backing off when told No.

@MrsTumbletap

Sexual assault? He violated you?

This man is the man she loves, the man she probably has had sex with hundreds of times, seen naked hundreds of time, seen his penis hundreds of times.

The man just dropped his towel and wanted her to touch him. He was trying to be playful and sexual with his 'sexual' partner. And now he is being accused of sexual assault and violating the OP.

OP do you have a fulfilling or spontaneous sex life with him? Is this really so shocking and random? That you actually felt unsafe seeing your husband's penis so surprisingly and him wanting you to touch him. Do you ever have quickies in the kitchen for example? I think the answer to these question changes the context here.

Previous sexual encounters are irrelevant. Consenting once does not mean consent every time. If the OP said no, then it means no. Not “oh but you said yes yesterday/last week so you don’t really mean it.”

Do you think spousal rape is acceptable, after all they’ve had sex before. What about if you have sex with a guy on the first date, does that mean he has the right to expect sex on the second date?

Not going to comment on the incident as I don’t feel best placed to understand what women who have suffered abuse feel.

Just on the thread. There have been a mixture of responses and OP has clearly found some helpful and come to her view on what this was. What’s surprising is that some poster seem unable to accept that and keep trying to convince her she’s wribg

Wrong

indeed @BillMasen
it is a bunfight

@LindaEllen

I think people are far too quick to pull the 'sexual assault' card on this website sometimes. It's very unfair to the innocent men who just want a bit of a laugh or are trying it on etc. I'm not saying that ALL situations would be innocent, but fuck me, if my DP had got out the shower I can see this exact situation playing out. Him saying touch it, me groaning and saying no, no, I'm working etc. He, like OP, would stop as soon as I let him know I was being absolutely serious.

In a marriage, when you're supposed to be open and comfortable about things like sex, it's not the same as if you'd met a guy at a party and he'd taken you into another room for example. It's absolutely important that they know when to stop (perhaps having a code word for 'absolutely stop, right now' would help), but there's so much playful banter in the bedroom sometimes that it is genuinely hard sometimes to know that no means no on this occasion.

Let the guy off the hook for fuck sake. He stopped when she made it clear. He's a normal, loving husband, and doesn't need the witches of mumsnet screaming 'sex offender' in his face.

Fully agree with this!

Yeah I get that, but I don't think it was malicious or intended with assault in mind.

It sounds like the OPs DH was trying to spice things up a bit and misjudged her reaction.

I say no sometimes then after some gentle persistence I'm more than up for it.

I sometimes flash at my DP and jiggle my boobs in his face when he is sat on the couch 🤷🏼‍♀️.

In my opinion, there is a clear line between sexual assault and trying to cajole your partner into a bit of afternoon delight.

It appears to me he was trying to be a bit spontaneous and also try he's luck. I wouldn't exactly call it sexual assault.

It became sexual assault when he ignored the first "no" and tried to force her hand.

OP, this may not be sexual assault in your eyes because of your previous experiences, but he knows of your past yet your first "no" didn't make him stop.

That's assault. Low level, perhaps, but nonetheless. And that low level sexual assault clearly triggered you. That should tell you all you need to know.

This isn't assault at all. However, your feelings are totally understandable given your experiences. I would just talk to him about it. He should be understanding and promise never to do anything similar again.

Of course this is not sexual assault, he was playing and having a laugh and took it too far, not understanding the ops reaction.

What is difficult to understand about I said no repeatedly and was visibly cringing. Why didn't he stop at that point? Why did he wait until she shouted 'I really do not like this, just stop!' I mean either he has zero respect for the use of the word 'no' or he is incredibly, unfathomably stupid. Neither of these are qualities I really want in a partner.

I'd be very wary OP. I don't think you should push yourself to move on from this. I don't like his reaction that you are being a spoilsport. He's either being very, very stupid and ignorant about what it's like to be a woman, or he knows full well and he's starting to push at your boundaries. How long have you been together? He might be fine and just very stupid in this instance, or he might be at the top of a slippery slope. Don't dampen down your instincts, allow them through.

If Bluntness does not have the intellectual understanding of the clarity of waters concerning the term 'consent', then I'd respectfully suggest Bluntness should hold back from posting on a thread on which an OP has stated outright that she was a victim of child abuse and asked for help in processing her feelings.

OP, your feelings ARE valid despite the attempts of several posters to claim otherwise. To say 'no', to have that assertion ignored to the point that you had to shout at him to stop would have been a very discomfiting, even frightening experience. I agree with the suggestion of talking to your husband and watching very carefully the manner of the response you get. Minimising your feelings is a warning sign. I'm fairly certain that if my husband took this kind of thing too far and I spelled out to him how it had made me feel he'd be horrified and contrite. The least I'd expect is a reassurance that that behaviour would never be repeated and hold him to that.

Sexually coercive behaviour (and be in no doubt that this is what this was) usually follows a pattern. You alone know whether or not this is the case, and your posts seem to indicate this was a one-off. If so a simple conversation might be all that's necessary to put a stop to this. But in answer to the main question you ask in your post, you shouldn't forget. You should trust your own instincts which are not allowing you to look past this, and with good reason. If there's ever any repetition of the same behaviour, or further instances of a refusal to hear 'no', then I'd be considering my future options very carefully.

I'd also strongly suggest that anyone who attempts to invalidate the feelings of a CSA victim or to minimise the refusal of a man to hear 'no' in this kind of context is not the sort of person whose advice you should be taking on board. This, BTW, includes your husband.

Hope you manage to sort this out, OP

@dewisant2020

It appears to me he was trying to be a bit spontaneous and also try he's luck. I wouldn't exactly call it sexual assault.

Exactly...sounds like what i did to my hubby last week (dropped towel, tried to get him going..he turned me down too...hope i'm not going to be accused of assault).

Also OP, perhaps he needs to be sat down and explained why you felt uncomfortable. It's a boundary thing too isn't it x

I think it says a lot about your relationship in general. If my DH did this to me, it would be make me laugh, and vice-versa. It would never occur to me to take it as a sign of sexual assault. However, the fact that you have taken it in this way, says to me that you are not comfortable in your relationship or with your husband. I think you need to explore the reasons for this if you have any chance of moving on and staying in this marriage.

This is understandably a trigger for you op and I completely understand. I think sitting down and talking to him and explaining though he deemed it harmless, it set off some awful memories for you.
To those saying it's sexual assault - he didn't force anything. He was trying his luck and went too far. As someone who has been sexually assaulted, as has the op and many women on this post, calling this assault completely diminishes the trauma experienced from
Actual assault.
I hope you are ok op ❤️

@HollyandIvyandallthingsYule

Tell him directly, in no uncertain terms, that he is never to do that again. And mean it.

If he does it again he isn’t a decent, caring man and you need to think very carefully about whether you want to stay married to him.

Of course it wouldn't be ok with a stranger but couples in sexual relationships play games that sometimes involve playful no's that mean yes. I know that some relationships don't involve that but some definitely do. There is a line though and it sounds to me this stepped just over the line. He should have stopped the second it became clear the no was serious , which is way before shouting 'NO' so I do think a conversation about what is acceptable in this relationship is definitely in order

I've read this thread open-mouthed at a lot of the responses - and throughly depressed.

Here's how I see it:

1. Her H was entirely out of line intruding on her work space & asking her, like a hormonal teenager, to 'touch it'.

1. Once she said no, stop or any combination of this, he should leave, having apologised.

1. OP describes repeatedly saying 'no', cringing & being very obviously uncomfortable in the whole situation. He continued to try to exert his strength over her to force an interactive she did not want

Although I might not use the term 'sexual assault' I don't think it's an incorrect term to use.

Furthermore, he seems to push boundaries regularly - 'trying it on' 'accepting no'. That doesn't sound like a pleasant description of their sex life.

For me, he was utterly inappropriate & I would feel violated by this.

OP, I agree firmly discussing how this made you feel & establishing boundaries is the right first step. But just that - a first step. He needs to reflect on his approach to you.

To those posters who excused this, suggested OP was over-reacting or it was a bit of fun, that this was an example of spontaneity or trying to spice things up 🙄, you need to really work on your understanding of consent, power balance, respect & love.

Good luck OP.

@LindaEllen that is the problem he didnt stop when she first made it clear - she had to really make it clear and then past it back to her being the problem.

I hate it when these threads become a semantic discussion about whether something is sexual assault/rape/harrassment or not. And not supporting an OP whose partner has pushed their boundaries, triggered them and made them feel uncomfortable.

The OP needs support in knowing that he did cross a line (not a discussion of exactly what that line was), didnt listen to her and has left her feeling unbalanced and out of sorts. No one has said anything other than her feelings are valid and in order to move on she needs to communicate with him and discuss with him what happen honestly so he gets where he went wrong and that it isnt as some people seem to think in trying - its in not listening to the first no and then once that happened beat a retreat out of the room.

Which I am sure all those who say they wouldnt mind assume would happen if they did it not have to repeatedly say no until they shouted and then being blamed for saying no

@Nervousofthed Did you mean your subject line to be attention-grabbing? It makes it sound as if you were away from home at work, not in a room most people call a 'study'.

I feel it's impossible for anyone who wasn't there to know what occurred.

A husband coming in draped in a towel and asking to be touched could appear playful, spontaneous and / or chancing his arm for a quickie.

We don't know why you reacted so badly other than your previous experience, but he's your DH not an assailant. You must surely know if he was mucking about or being threatening.

If he didn't back off (I'd have wacked it with a stapler or something) then he's an idiot and a bully. If he was just persisting a little still in a kind and lighthearted way hoping you'd change your mind that is different to being menacing.

It's all about nuances and only you know what went on.

A lot of women would have said' bugger off I'm up to my eyes in spreadsheets', or whatever, and he'd have got the hint.

Why didn't your convo go like that?

People should perhaps focus their responses on how the OP feels, rather than how they thing she should feel

Too many people on here want to put a negative label on one off behaviours and then get pissed off when OPs don't agree. Not everyone is some made sex crazed animal. Some people actually just fuck up and misread the situation.

Not everything is a label

@baileys6904

In the OP's own words:

"I am finding it uncomfortable to look at him and talk to him. I've never felt unsafe around him (for context, I was abused as a child), but that encounter made me feel unsafe."

"The scenario was misjudged and he didn't recognise my reaction at all."

Minimising it won't help the OP and her husband get past it. He fucked up. It may have been a one off, it may be a pattern of behaviour. We don't know. But brushing it under the carpet is not the way forward. They need to have a full and frank discussion.

I'm so sorry OP.

How awful for you.

I can well imagine you are finding it very difficult to look at him.

Please don't feel bad for not being OK with your repeated NO's being ignored.

I would be absolutely appalled at anyone behaving like that towards me, not to mind my husband.

He has form for pushing you.
His mocking you for saying No is at the very least deeply unpleasant.

Respect is so important in a relationship.

I think it is critical that you have a very serious conversation with him about this.

I can understand how an incident like this, if not addressed, could do irreparable damage to a marriage.

Wishing you the best.

In healthy relationships No means No.

It is so disturbing that so many women on MN still don't understand this.

It makes it even harder for younger women to be taught this message when so many older women still don't get it, and belittle other's that do.