DH says “you’re making me force you” to DD

[Callardandbowser]

DH has lately started to say to DD (age 3) “Don’t make me force this” to DD when she’s resisting something like for example having her teeth brushed. I have found DD has really started to push boundaries lately (as they all do) but I never use my physical strength to ‘win’ in the battle of wills because I’m stronger so it’s (in my opinion) an abuse of power.

If DD won’t cooperate with having her teeth brushed, DH holds her really strongly so she can’t move and brushes her teeth.

Yesterday was bad. DD was bored because she’d been in all morning and started to pull a part off one of her soft toys. Instead of distracting her, DH raised his voice repeatedly at her and ended up snatching the toy off her which made her fall over. He then continued to tell her off.

I was really disturbed by this interaction because again he blamed her for him essentially losing his temper.

I have sent him a long email (because I don’t have the energy for an argument) explaining that I don’t want him to blame DD for him being physically dominating.

When I confronted him about the fact that he is a 50 year old man and has an inherent advantage over her. He really stuck to his guns and said that he will do the same to the cat if she’s breaking something (ie pick her up and take her away). I said that the cat is an animal, you can’t communicate to a cat in words he then shouted “It’s about time DD learns to do as she’s told” (for context DD is the best behaved kid I’ve ever come across, I’m a primary school teacher and have nannied for many children for 20 years so) I’m not just being biased.
I said that using force when dealing with behaviour is unacceptable and he just stood his ground and said that he will continue to do this if they are breaking possessions.

I said that the only time parents should intervene physically is when the child is endangering themselves or others. He just said that I am judgemental and that that’s just my view.

This is the worst bit. I then pushed him. I have never done this before and it really has disturbed me. I have apologised to him, I wanted to show him the behaviour that he was justifying. But in doing so I became a hypocrite and of course my point is lost.

I grew up in a shouty, unsafe home and I’m worried that I’m just being over-sensitive and I’ve made a mountain out of a molehill.

DH has never hit/ smacked/ hurt DD and never would but still I don’t like the vibe of his forcefulness or his behaviour management skills.

Please be gentle. I know mn can be a bit of a tricky place to ask for advice must I feel all over the place today and could do without people being mean.

Thanks for reading.

Some men (not all) have learned that their physical size and strength can be used to get what they want. Often it's used subconsciously as a last resort, but in the back of their mind it's always there; that they know they can 'win' by simply being stronger/bigger/intimidating.

It shows a lack of emotional maturity in my view. Women don't have this last resort of what is essentially brute force and intimidation, so tend to have developed different negotiating skills to get what they want.

When he's at work or with friends, I can guarantee he doesn't physically force anyone to do anything he wants. So it boils down to dominating and bullying. If you can get him to get his head around that he's only physically forcing your DD because she is smaller and weaker and he's asserting himself as 'the boss', then you might get somewhere. It's lazy parenting imo to skip straight to the 'I'll just force you to do it because I can' approach.

Thank you, I agree with you.
I did imply that he was being a coward using force against a defenceless child but he wouldnt hear it.

She’s 3. He’s a total prick. I suggest you take some legal advice because where is he going to stop? Holding a 3 year old to physically brush their teeth against their will? Nope.

I agree with @Sparklfairy. It's lazy. He can't be arsed, or doesn't have the confidence(?) to negotiate with her or try to distract her or disincentivise poor behaviour.

That said I don't think holding her firmly while she brushes her teeth is abusive or anything like that. It's just crap parenting.

Shouting about her "learning to do as she's told" sounds like he has a short temper and also doesn't understand what is normal for a 3yo.
3yos are difficult. They have a lot of big emotions that they're not quite mature enough to handle. I don't know what your 50 year old DH's excuse is for not handling his emotions though.

I agree with you except for the teeth brushing thing. This isn't really a case where distraction works as you need them to keep still and some kids really bloody hate it. "Don't make me force you" sounds creepy but I would say "I'm going to brush your teeth now", then do it.

but he wouldnt hear it

This would worry me, although it may be he's being stubborn in the heat of the argument. But going forward if he's going to continue 'forcing' your DD out of laziness, a desire to dominate, and a complete inability to communicate effectively (both with DD and you!) then you have a serious problem. Would he consider a parenting course? Most 'negotiations' (in any social context) are best dealt with when you have a number of skills at your disposal.

Depending on how receptive he is would determine my next steps. Surely everyone including him would be happier if he used an approach that means she actually does what he's asked, rather than getting frustrated and then forcing her which then upsets her?? Only you can decide whether his behaviour is coming from a good or not so good place, i.e. frustration or out and out bullying, or somewhere in between. Don't minimise it in your own head though, your DD will be far worse in her teens and he won't be able to so easily force her to do anything

She needs to brush her teeth. Some things are non negotiable. Letting her teeth go unbrushed at 3 would be neglectful. I think you are projecting from your childhood and she is a lovely child with 2 caring parents.

I've held DD against her will to clean her teeth, when bribing her to do it etc hasn't worked. What should I have done? Never brushed them? She would move her head from side to side and kick and clamp her mouth shut.

He may really need help with examples and ideas of how to do things better! You have lots of experience and he doesn't.

Teeth brushing is non-negotiable so perhaps her choices are that she does it herself or he will do it for her. His wording was completely wrong I agree.

Same with him taking away the toy - give him some examples of what he could have done. So him still giving clear boundaries and stopping the behaviour and making it clear that damaging things purposely aren't ok.

I've been known to pin both my dc down to brush their teeth. Also for medication and when my ds2 needed a wound change.

Only you can know if he is going to far but I am someone that raises my voice

The fact that you had to email him to discuss this says a huge amount tbh. You knew you wouldn’t allowed to get your point across face to face. Is not just DD he throws his weight around with. You’re already adjusting your behaviour to avoid his reaction. Also known as walking on eggshells.

This is exactly the kind of man who will be absolutely astonished in ten years time that he doesn't have a close or loving relationship with his daughter, and that while things may well be ok on the surface, it'll be you she turns to when she needs a parent she can trust.

It's unpleasant parenting. Yep ok he'd never hit her blah blah... he's still setting up a dynamic that at 3, she will absolutely internalise without even realising... that this parent doesn't make her feel ultimately safe and cared for, but has an edge of brutality. I've chosen that word carefully. That's exactly what it is. My father was the same. My mother too, actually.

Maybe show him this thread.

The aim isn't to get the three year old to brush her teeth. The aim should be to teach the three year old, every day and in every little way, how we relate to, live with, love other people.

He's not doing this.

The aim isn't to get the three year old to brush her teeth. The aim should be to teach the three year old, every day and in every little way, how we relate to, live with, love other people.

Tell that to the dentist when they ask why you haven't been brushing your kid's teeth.

My friend was similar to you in that she came from a home where she was anxious and didn't want her child to know that life, he daughter ended up having 4 teeth removed before she was even in school because well children resist having their teeth brushed.

I think he wants to teach her, some of the methods are overbearing but as you say he's never smacked or hurt her and if they have positive interactions too I would call different parenting styles rather than an abuser.

Thank you.
About the teeth/ medicine thing. I can get her to do these things ‘in relationship’ with her. Yes sometimes it takes longer than I would wish but my goal is always to remain ‘in relationship’ with her and say “I would like you to brush your teeth now” if she runs away, I don’t turn it into a fun game by chasing her, I just sit in the bathroom with her toothbrush in my hand until she gets bored and comes to find me and make the right choice. It is the same with all my interactions with her.
So if I can get her to do things she doesn’t want to do, why can’t DH?

This is nothing to do with teeth! It’s fine, I am able to get her to have teeth brushed everyday without drama!

@Ketrina I think you’re missing the point of my post. Her teeth are fine and done every day twice!

Tell that to the dentist when they ask why you haven't been brushing your kid's teeth.

I don’t know about you but I don’t answer to the dentist. They aren’t my tooth boss they check the health of the child’s teeth and give advice where it’s needed.

So if I can get her to do things she doesn’t want to do, why can’t DH?

Because he's not prepared to sit and wait for her, and it's easier to hold her and force her.

PPs have said they hold their children to brush their teeth, and that is fine as long as it's not the first go to. It really sounds like lazy parenting on his part to get the job done asap.

He sounds like a horrible bully.

Is there a big age gap? Does he see himself as superior to you? You mention your own dysfunctional childhood and there may be elements of this that have clouded your vision of your DH and who he is.

"You're making me force you" is a small step to "You made me hit you" and I don't like the sound of it at all

When you say you don't want people to be mean, are you saying you don't want people to tell you that you need to sort this out and protect your daughter?

I don’t know about you but I don’t answer to the dentist.

But chances are, if the dentist is pointing out lack of brushing, this is because of issues with your child's teeth. Personally if my small child had tooth issues down to lack of brushing, that would be entirely my fault as a parent.

Unfortunately, as a parent to, especially a young child, there are occasions when you have to use physical force to have to make them do something against their will. As well as the tooth brushing example here, I can't have been the only person who had to physically hold a wriggling toddler down to change their nappy? Or force a child into a car seat when they went rigid? Or grab a child's arm and yank them back to stop doing something dangerous?

I agree that DH needs to think about the words he uses and the way he does things, but never using physical force with a young child is probably unrealistic, unless you have a very amenable one!

He’s 10 years older than me but I don’t know what’s got into him lately, it’s worse than ever.

My childhood is the thing that makes me doubt myself when I call him out on this behaviour because I can totally entertain the prospect that I might be being over sensitive.

My childhood also makes me realise how normalised scary men are and that I mustn’t see it as normal when men are dominating my daughter lest the cycle continue.

It’s so hard. 😔

But chances are, if the dentist is pointing out lack of brushing, this is because of issues with your child's teeth. Personally if my small child had tooth issues down to lack of brushing, that would be entirely my fault as a parent.

Of course it would be your fault, you still wouldn’t have to sit and look remorseful and beg forgiveness while the dentist chastises you like a PP implied.

I just sit in the bathroom with her toothbrush in my hand until she gets bored and comes to find me and make the right choice.

Makes the right choice? At 3? No I'm sorry but sometimes you have to force dc to do what they don't like doing, it's not bullying or being domineering, it's being a parent.

Why did you push him? Why are you sending him an email? These two things would concern me more than holding a dc still to brush her teeth.