DH says “you’re making me force you” to DD

[Callardandbowser]

DH has lately started to say to DD (age 3) “Don’t make me force this” to DD when she’s resisting something like for example having her teeth brushed. I have found DD has really started to push boundaries lately (as they all do) but I never use my physical strength to ‘win’ in the battle of wills because I’m stronger so it’s (in my opinion) an abuse of power.

If DD won’t cooperate with having her teeth brushed, DH holds her really strongly so she can’t move and brushes her teeth.

Yesterday was bad. DD was bored because she’d been in all morning and started to pull a part off one of her soft toys. Instead of distracting her, DH raised his voice repeatedly at her and ended up snatching the toy off her which made her fall over. He then continued to tell her off.

I was really disturbed by this interaction because again he blamed her for him essentially losing his temper.

I have sent him a long email (because I don’t have the energy for an argument) explaining that I don’t want him to blame DD for him being physically dominating.

When I confronted him about the fact that he is a 50 year old man and has an inherent advantage over her. He really stuck to his guns and said that he will do the same to the cat if she’s breaking something (ie pick her up and take her away). I said that the cat is an animal, you can’t communicate to a cat in words he then shouted “It’s about time DD learns to do as she’s told” (for context DD is the best behaved kid I’ve ever come across, I’m a primary school teacher and have nannied for many children for 20 years so) I’m not just being biased.
I said that using force when dealing with behaviour is unacceptable and he just stood his ground and said that he will continue to do this if they are breaking possessions.

I said that the only time parents should intervene physically is when the child is endangering themselves or others. He just said that I am judgemental and that that’s just my view.

This is the worst bit. I then pushed him. I have never done this before and it really has disturbed me. I have apologised to him, I wanted to show him the behaviour that he was justifying. But in doing so I became a hypocrite and of course my point is lost.

I grew up in a shouty, unsafe home and I’m worried that I’m just being over-sensitive and I’ve made a mountain out of a molehill.

DH has never hit/ smacked/ hurt DD and never would but still I don’t like the vibe of his forcefulness or his behaviour management skills.

Please be gentle. I know mn can be a bit of a tricky place to ask for advice must I feel all over the place today and could do without people being mean.

Thanks for reading.

I think you need to calm down a bit. Do you need to be held down to help you do it?

I'm merely questioning why you would get defensive at the dentist, it makes no sense to me, considering it could be referred higher. No need for the smart remarks really.

I try to tune out of the “it never did me any harm” brigade because they’re usually quite traumatised adults who can be seen re-enacting the abuse and disappointment on their own children that was acted out on them as children.

@Callardandbowser You sit in the bathroom holding a toothbrush until the child bothers to come find you? She's 3. If I kept doing that then my child would grow up believing she ruled the roost! I'd also be sat in the bathroom like a lemon for a very, very long time! Certainly until the next meal time and the house would be trashed!!!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=CmZp1wdJAw4

Callard, if you think taking iPads away or grounding children is abusive, then you must think the majority of parents in the country are abusers

I’m not sat there for a long time and neither of us ends up stressed or upset.
This has only happened once or twice and now she just does it straight away because I’ve never allowed it to become a battle. She’s very cooperative for a three year old and I feel very lucky for that.

I don't like "you're making me force you though". Abusers often say that to their victims. I don't think for a moment that your dh is an abuser, but language matters and he might want to rethink that one. No idea how you talk to him about it, but whatever you do don't mention the abuse thing. It won't be helpful.

If my husband ever told my dd 'you're making me force you' she'd be moved away from him quicker than you can imagine.
That behaviour and language isn't okay. She's 3, her level of understanding isn't anywhere near developed enough to be able to see what you're dh is trying to make her. She'll play up, she won't want to do things, that's called being a child. He needs to learn how to communicate in a way that is age appropriate.

@Ketrina Maybe most of the parents in your world, yes actually.

for context DD is the best behaved kid I’ve ever come across, I’m a primary school teacher and have nannied for many children for 20 years so) I’m not just being biased. well perhaps a little. I have five children and have never needed to be force them to clean their teeth, they did as they were told. They are naughty at other times though. You say in your OP that she isn’t as easy as she was. I’d have a think about what’s changed and I’d really think hard about pushing your partner. Are you critiqueing his parenting in front of her? Who is helped by that? Are you setting yourself up as the expert parent? Who is helped by that?

i'd also be sat in the bathroom like a lemon for a very, very long time! Certainly until the next meal time and the house would be trashed!!!

Right!! That she gets bored after 2 mins and comes to get them brushed is really lucky, mine wouldn't have gotten bored after 2 mins a few hours maybe

I don’t need to force her pp- that’s the whole point!!!

I think there may be people on the thread being triggered by their own experiences as children with parents who couldn't manage their emotions and took it out on the kids. It's hard to get a balance isn't it. I hope you and your husband can improve your relationship OP. It will also help his parenting even if he doesn't agree to do a parenting class together.

I agree with you @Callardandbowser and have regularly been horrified at posters on MN whio say that its ok to pin down your child to brush their teeth. No concept of usng bryte force on a 3yo nor on the fact that doing so will be painful for the child (try and see how it feels when someone else brushes your teeth, let alone if you are resisting).

I agree with this - we tried lots of different things to be able to brush DS's teeth without holding him down and forcing him (which I have done in the past, in desperation, but it feels awful and also you're doing such a crap job of brushing if you're doing it while a child screams and fights you that it's really not worth it). The thing that we found works is that I brush my teeth, he does his and then we 'swap' and do each others' - he likes this, but it also taught me that it is horrible having someone else stick a toothbrush in your mouth, and made me all the more determined to find any other way than holding him down to do it!

I have sent him a long email (because I don’t have the energy for an argument

This, more than anything else, bothered me.

You realise he's bullying you, too, don't you?

Of course it would be your fault, you still wouldn’t have to sit and look remorseful and beg forgiveness while the dentist chastises you like a PP implied.

but are you going to beg your child's forgiveness? It's daft - they have to brush their teeth. There are different opinions about how to get them to do it, and props to people who have hours to spare sitting there holding a toothbrush.

I didn't clamp their heads under my arm and brush their teeth roughly, but i also didn't fanny around letting my 3 year old run round the house while i sat there for 20 minutes saying "please come and brush your teeth"

@Ketrina Maybe most of the parents in your world, yes actually.

I'd say most parents in the country use at least some of those methods... I think you're being very precious. Even DDs Reception class has a Time-Out chair they use... Should I ring the school and tell them Time Outs are abusive?

I'm merely questioning why you would get defensive at the dentist, it makes no sense to me, considering it could be referred higher. No need for the smart remarks really.

I wouldn’t get defensive at the dentist. I didn’t suggest I would. My comments were in response to your post trying to put OP back in her place by smugly suggesting she would have explain herself to the dentist.

@Ketrina. Your ‘normal’ examples are not normal in the circles I move in.
They are very shame inducing.
I am a reception teacher and would NEVER advocate a ‘naughty’ chair in any circumstance.
That’s sounds like the equivalent of a dunce’s hat in the Victorian era!

@Callardandbowser

I try to tune out of the “it never did me any harm” brigade because they’re usually quite traumatised adults who can be seen re-enacting the abuse and disappointment on their own children that was acted out on them as children.

This^

I wouldn’t get defensive at the dentist. I didn’t suggest I would. My comments were in response to your post trying to put OP back in her place by smugly suggesting she would have explain herself to the dentist.

Eh? So if the dentist said "Ah could do with more brushing, having any issues?" or something, you'd just... Get defensive? Not say anything? Say "I don't have to explain anything to you?"

If not, I don't get your point. Of course you have to answer to the dentist in some way, or if it gets referred higher, explain to someone else.

There’s no way I’d be sitting in the bathroom waiting for a 3 year old to return as I might like to brush her teeth, not a chance. You are massively projecting I’m afraid op.

@Ketrina

That's pretty normal parenting across the country.

Not so long ago, smacking children was also pretty normal parenting acriss the country. Or getting the slipper at school.

This doesnt mean its the best way to parent a child or that it is appropriate.

I am a reception teacher and would NEVER advocate a ‘naughty’ chair in any circumstance.

Her school does. They sit on it for about 2 minutes when they've done something they've been told not to. Works fine.

but are you going to beg your child's forgiveness?

Well I haven’t needed to because I always got their teeth done and no fillings so far (both in secondary now) take from that what you will.