A year on from affair

[Drama99]

Hi
I scroll thru Mumsnet All the time looking for threads that help me work thru my own issues. Specifically, those of u who are the victims of affairs.
I discovered my husbands affair over a year ago. We have stayed together.
No one knows. Just me, my husband, and the dirty whore (sorry, don’t know how else to to refer to her)
So I have literally had no one to speak to about this for over a year.
It is fucking exhausting.
We r still together.
My children r still happy. Which I guess Is probably my main goal. They r 14, 12 and 10.
Not sure why I’m posting.
The crap I could pour forth is almost limitless.
Might like to connect with someone else who has stayed with a cheater???
It’s a twisted complex tortuous world
So easy to just say leave.
Life is so much more complicated than that ☹️

@maze76
❤️

It's never too late to cut your losses.

@PicsInRed

Husbands who cheat invite divorce into their lives, and other women invite name calling. You reap what you sow and receiving a few hurtful names isn't much to bear vs the damage trashy other women do to entire families.

The husband is duly punished in his wallet, his reputation (people do quietly look very much askance at him) and usually in eventually realising he spoiled his own life. He is a piece of crap too...but so is she, and she will be named so. Trash.

You see I don't think that people do look askance at men who cheat or think that he spoiled his own life . This is so commonplace now . Marriages break up all the time . These affair partners sometimes end up married . I think it is only scorned wives who think this way.

@Drama00988

I am drawing so much comfort from hearing from you all. Just putting some of the feelings into words really helps. Knowing that there are others who understand exactly the complex emotions involved. And the fact that some of you have said “I hope you are ok“ means so much. I think that’s what I’m missing by keeping it all secret - just someone to say oh you poor thing, that must be hard, and then agree with all the bad angry things I need to say about DH and OW!!!

This is one of the problems - these cheating men turn us into liars with those around us.

There is a certain type of man who laughs and laughs when he fucks women over, and they turn to sexually shaming each other.

And it helps those men to cheat with impunity.

If women universally refused to enter into relationships with married men then we wouldn’t have this problem, would we? Men are stupid and often led by their dicks. I always hope that women would know better because I genuinely believe us to be the superior sex in every way.

You would be wrong on every count, then, wouldn't you? How many times do you need to be disproved to realise a) that this isn't true and therefore b) the better option is to say that married people of either gender are responsible for their own commitments?

Why should a random woman treat a man's marriage with more respect than he does? Can you truly not see the problem with appointing every woman the moral guardian of every man's commitment?

Why should a random woman treat a man's marriage with more respect than he does?

It's about self respect.

I don't think they are responsible for the behaviour of married men though.

@SoupDragon

Why should a random woman treat a man's marriage with more respect than he does?

It's about self respect.

I don't think they are responsible for the behaviour of married men though.

Well that's really the point. Let's be honest, nobody who discovers an affair is upset for the OW for her lack of self respect...I don't really know why anyone would assume she didn't have any anyway. A lot of women are very happy to sleep with married men and don't want any more than they've got. But once again, it's always assumed that men do it because they want to and didn't want more than they got, while women clearly always were after a committed relationship and it's a sign of how pathetic they are. Misogyny on misogyny.

And it's this deep, deep misogyny that actually makes it easier for men to cheat, because they are not made to own their shame and it turns women against each other. It is so, so horrible and it doesn't help betrayed wives.

@ShebaShimmyShake I REALLY like your posts on this topic .

[quote VivaMiltonKeynes]@ShebaShimmyShake I REALLY like your posts on this topic .[/quote]
Thank you.

I'm trying very hard not to minimise OP's pain and devastation. I don't want anyone to think I don't hugely sympathise or think she hasn't got any right to be heartbroken. But it's a bit like being hit over the head with a brick, and then, rather than taking your attacker to justice, calling all brick sellers whores and sluts who should behave better than other merchants. I know that's not a perfect analogy but I hope it makes the point. Misogyny like this is deep rooted but ultimately it makes it easier for men to cheat and harder for women to recover from it.

I think the problem I have with this is the mental gymnastics people go through to give themselves permission to cheat.

They either have to follow the cheater's script and tell themselves that they haven't been happy in their marriage for a long time, paint their spouse as the enemy and decide they deserve the affair; or they compartmentalise and put their marriage in a box over there >> and tell themselves that the two things are not related.

A person who can do either of these things is a problem for me - aside from the actual cheating. It's that thought process. The ability to demonise and belittle their Spouse in their own minds or convince themselves that he/she is unimportant and it's not their business.

I couldn't deal with that disloyalty and knowing they are capable of detaching themselves from their family.

So I couldn't trust them ever again. I would never know if they were watching me for some evidence of a slight or failing that would give them permission to do it again. It's insidious.

A lot has been said already here OP, so I won’t drag it out. I left a 10 yr relationship 18 months after I found out he’d been cheating. I tried to stay but he wouldn’t discuss it, and honestly sometimes it felt like he thought it was both of our problem to solve if that makes sense? Rather than something wrong that he did. Not for me to say what you should do, but the years since I’ve left him have been the best of my life.

What I do want to say is that if my DD was this upset about her marriage and didn’t tell me, I would be so sad. I’d be so sad she ‘didn’t want to upset me’ I would much rather know. Tell her. Tell your friends. I think part of you thinks if you tell people they will tell you to leave, which if your will to stay is so strong, it shouldn’t affect you.

It's possible that the same misogynistic narrative of female sexual shame that results in cheating women being called names that cheating men are not, is also a reason for OP feeling unable to talk about this to her support network, which she obviously really really needs.

Honestly, those of us who point out this stuff aren't doing it to kick a woman when she's down. We're doing it because it reinforces a horrible, deeply rooted double standard that ultimately harms us all, including the betrayed wife.

Whilst I fully understand the feminist viewpoints expressed here (some more kindly than others given the OP’s obvious distress) and agree that misogyny plays a part in the way OWs are portrayed, I think that a separate thread might be a better place for the use of language debate. I understand that none of it is meant as an attack on the OP, but I feel it is a separate issue.

OP, I don’t know the circumstances of your husband’s OW, but here’s my take on it generally:

Cheating spouses are completely to blame for their own choices, but then their affair partners are also fully responsible for theirs.
These women are not blameless. It’s a bit like being the getaway driver for someone robbing a bank and telling the police that you weren’t to blame because it was their idea and it’s not your car. You are not a passenger if you do this, you have merely chosen to ignore the man’s marital state as if it was nothing to do with you. Once you start a relationship with a married man, you can tell yourself this all you like. The truth is that you are deceiving his wife every bit as much as he is by lying low and staying off her radar. He can only continue to cheat by lying and concealing you. Your collusion in this puts you firmly front and centre along with him. These women know what they are doing. Some are victims but by no means all.

Choice of language:

OWs are not all whores, no. But some are.
If you are using sex to further a relationship with a man in order to enjoy five star hotels, fine dining and a much more elevated lifestyle than you are able to afford, all paid for by him for as long as you keep sleeping with him, then sadly, you’re a whore. It doesn’t matter whether the man is married or not. You are whoring yourself for financial gain. There are plenty of derogatory terms for men who do the same thing with rich women. It’s a form of prostitution, and I don’t think it’s misogynistic to point this out. However, not all OWs are whores.

Only you know whether you can stay with your husband, what he was like before and if he is capable of change. It is also absolutely your right to decide who you tell, if you are trying to stay together then nobody needs to know unless or until they have to. Just make sure you have the support you need in the meantime, it’s a tough lonely road.

Don’t stay only because you’re worried about the children. You will all be miserable.

Don’t stay purely because of a reduced lifestyle, a miserable richer one isn’t better.

Don’t stay out of the misplaced shame of having to tell everyone, there’s misogyny there too.

Stay because you love him and believe he can change and because he loves you and is willing to do absolutely everything and anything you need him to do or to stop doing to save the marriage. He needs to do this work, not you. The burden of proof that he has changed and loves you is down to him.

If he can’t or won’t do these things, it’s time to leave.

Look at the advice on here with a filter. Decide what fits your situation. There’s no shame in staying or leaving. Just make the right choice for you.

Sending love. X

See, I don't think it is a separate issue at all. It's precisely in times of high emotion that these nasty narratives get pulled out, because people want to hurl the worst insults they can think of, and for women, that is sexual in a way that it isn't for men. You have to address misogyny where it occurs. If OW were black and OP had made a racist remark, nobody would be justifying it with "well she's upset", "well she did an awful thing and deserves it", "don't police how she feels" and "not the time".

As I said, it's this kind of narrative that assists men in cheating and I wouldn't be surprised at all if OP's husband is delighted to find that there's an extra element of shame being flung that he escapes as a man.

And the only OW who are "whores" are those who get paid for sex...and I still place the shame for that, if there is any, on the buyers. Please do tell me all these horrible, misandristic and commonly used names for the rich men who use money to woo their mistresses? And you might want to be careful about castigating women who stay for the lifestyle as sexually shameful variations of sex workers, since that net can be cast rather more widely than you seem to appreciate...

There has been a lot of internalised misogyny on MN lately to the point where it has stopped surprising me, but it still disgusts me.

It seems this post has taken man v women theme.
Cant' it just be right v wrong.

@ShebaShimmyShake - totally agree. Op is in a horrible situation and deserves our sympathy. But misogynist language is no different from racist language. We should not tolerate either.

Also who are all these people with weird ideas about women “luring in” men with sex so they can stay at nice hotels???? It’s so strange.

@Onthedunes

It seems this post has taken man v women theme. Cant' it just be right v wrong.

The thread has taken a "double standards for men and women" theme, which is quite different. Though I do maintain that there is a certain type of man who just loves it when he acts like a sexual shit and the women respond by hurling sexual insults at each other. Lucky for him there are so many feminine ones to choose from with no male equivalent!

It's wrong to use misogynistic insults at women even if your husband has done you wrong first by shagging them. Sexually shaming women and not men, even when it's actually the man who did wrong, insults all women and perpetuates damaging double standards. Plus, it allows the man to get away with it, or at least get away with less blame. And is that likely to encourage him to stay faithful next time?

It's important.

At no point did I suggest that there are women “luring in” these men in order to go to nice hotels. I stated that the blame for illicit affairs lies squarely with the man. In some cases, not all, (some men want an emotional relationship and are more motivated by that) the more cynical and predatory man is the one obviously happy to chuck his cash around to impress a woman in order to get sex. However, if the woman then decides to continue the relationship for all the benefits, allowing him to pay for everything, she needs to decide what her motivations actually are. Some OWs can overlook or excuse their behaving like prostitutes to themselves by using that as an excuse. I’m not charging for it so expensive gifts are ok, getting taken to five star hotels for sex is OK, never going halves or paying my own way then sleeping with him is OK. Surely he wants sex every time we meet because I’m irresistible and he loves me? He gives me these things to make me happy. He isn’t giving me all this just to impress me and to ensure I continue to sleep with him, that would make him a deeply unpleasant man who is just using me for sex...and by continuing to accept all this and continuing to sleep with him in the hope of more of the same that would make me.... oh, hang on a minute...
Getting paid for sex doesn’t mean only money changes hands. Gifts, jewellery, fine dining and hotels..... all yours as long as you keep on sleeping with him. Just see how many dates in posh hotels they still want to go on with you and gifts they shower you with if you reduce the amount of sex you’re willing to have with them. Money doesn’t have to change hands for women to be giving sex for material rewards. Of course, the man doing this is as much to blame and way more. But the woman is no helpless lured in victim either.
I’m pretty sure the well-dressed high flying executives in bars hitting on women get much farther with them than the low paid guy behind the bar might.

If you want to read the names people call men for getting up to this kind of awful shit there are plenty of other threads on here full of them, often referring to their genitals. Or women’s genitals. Pretty much the most sexist terminology you can come up with. But if looked at under the same spotlight as here, name calling of men in this way goes mysteriously unpunished on Mumsnet.

It is all disgusting. The behaviour and the terminology.

I agree with the misogyny viewpoint. I have no desire whatsoever to defend men for illicit affairs, to view them as less culpable than OWs, or to defend men who pay for sex in any way, whether cash or material goods. But I reserve the right to call a type of behaviour what it is, whether it’s a man or a woman doing it.

However, if the woman then decides to continue the relationship for all the benefits, allowing him to pay for everything, she needs to decide what her motivations actually are. Some OWs can overlook or excuse their behaving like prostitutes to themselves by using that as an excuse.

The problem is, that description doesn't apply only to OWs. Are you really sure you don't want to rethink what you're saying here?

If you want to read the names people call men for getting up to this kind of awful shit there are plenty of other threads on here full of them, often referring to their genitals. Or women’s genitals. Pretty much the most sexist terminology you can come up with.

You mean words like twat, dick and cunt? Those aren't nice terms, but they aren't loaded with masculine sexual shame, and the first and latter are pretty commonly aimed at women too. And I think you know that.

@Drama00988

Wow Harsh hereyehearye

Excuse me for taking some time to figure out my feelings and not blow up my entire family, the course of my children’s lives, my relationships with my wider family, my husbands family, my husbands business and therefore our financial stability.....

If it was really all about me, and only me, the decision would be very simple!!! I wouldn’t be on here seeking advice or support! Yes, the ENTIRE situation is of my husbands making. But the impact is far-reaching, and I hold in my hands the power to completely change the lives of a lot of people. People I love. It’s really not all about me. This would be completely life altering for so many people.

If, by protecting the people I love, I sacrifice some of my own happiness, then that might be a price I am willing to pay. And if I sometimes feel really sad about that sacrifice, and at times need to reach out, eg to people on Mumsnet, for some help, then is that really so awful???

Maybe my previous posts have been misleading. There has been some happiness over the last year too. Some rediscovery of our love for each other. Talking more intimately and deeply than ever before. And when I’m in a good headspace I can take that at face value. And other times I simply don’t trust it and all the bad feeling creeps back in. I’ve reached out at a time when I’m struggling and particularly low.

I’m by no means draping myself in a swoon on the chaise. You make it sound like I’m enjoying this?? You have no idea.

Yes I deserve happiness. But just at any cost? I’ll never be completely happy again I don’t think. But then, is anyone? For one reason or another? My marriage is changed and tainted whether i stay or not. Would I actually be happier if I left? Or can I work thru my current situation and be just as happy? Without doing more damage? I don’t flipping know!!!!

OP, come down from the cross, we need the wood. I'm serious.

To be clear, I am not telling you to leave your marriage. I am saying there is no justification in your self sacrifice fantasy that requires you to keep it secret from everyone you know. You could very easily tell a friend or your parent for support. One person in real life. They would probably be happier to know you are hurting and that they could help you. I mean relationships are about sharing the good and the bad and being real with each other.

Your language is sooo dramatic but very interesting. You feel like keeping this secret gives you power. Over your family, friends. I dont' think you are enjoying this but it is definitely meeting a need for you. Do you generally prefer control to emotional honesty and openness with the people around you? Are most of your relationships based on you hiding your real emotions and beliefs and trying to reflect what you think people want?

Was your marriage (pre affair) actually emotionally intimate or was it like this - You pretending behind a smile?

@ShebaShimmyShake, no thanks, I don’t need to rethink my opinion. I obviously needed to be clearer as I presumed it would be understood that obviously it doesn’t only apply to OWs. I never said it only applies to OWs. It applies to women or men who allow themselves to be used for sex in exchange for material gain of any kind. I’d not feel at all comfortable with myself if I was knowingly allowing a man or woman to use me for sex for financial rewards, cash or material, in any kind of relationship. I would consider it akin to prostitution. No rethink needed. My opinion is as valid as anyone else’s and I respect yours and anyone else’s right to disagree.

I also didn’t realise that anyone would genuinely think that someone wouldn’t know that twat, dick and cunt can be applied to women as well as men. So yes, you were correct in thinking I did know that. Because I would have thought that it was pretty obvious. As I said, there are other terms that I have seen on Mumsnet which are only ever directed at men on here. An example being the ones inexplicably made up from species of British wildlife or children’s tv characters coupled with cock or dick.

However, my actual point, aside from behaviour which can constitute a form of prostitution, regardless of gender, is the clear double standards applied on Mumsnet in regard to name-calling. I have no argument whatsoever with anyone as to whether these insults are loaded with masculine sexual shame or are gender specific or not. You ignored my remarks about this and chose to quote only the parts of my post supporting your own agenda.

And I think you know that.

Hi op,

How are you?

We havn't forgotten you, hope your ok.
Rant away, I don't mind what language you use.

@thisgardenlife

Oh my dear. I am that person who stayed. I was 43 and now I'm 63. The children are grown and after 20 years of trying to get over the betrayal there is a new, recent issue with porn taking him out of the marriage in a very similar way the original betrayal did. I am undone.

Still not over the first betrayal, compounded by years of defensive justification and small cruelties, and now with this latest incident I doubt I ever will be.

I thought I could assimilate the betrayal into a longer term big picture of a loving 40+ year relationship. I was wrong.

It feels too late for me to start again in my 60s. I'm guessing it's not too late for you.

This I wouldn't go back with him after affair and abandonment of me a 2 smalls. Yes its hard work Yes it can be lonely but by God its better than living with someone you do not respect and tbh someone I isn't like very much. I would have fond it hard to get past it. I have now got a lovely life and I'm happy Good luck

@Drama00988

I feel utterly alone

Don't suffer alone. For goodness sake, tell someone!! He's winning, you are losing. Its all in his favour!!!