To feel hurt and betrayed by my DS?

[MsSweary]

I have been here a long time but I've never posted in AIBU and I'm not sure if that's even relevant but I have to say this to someone. My head is all muddled up and i probably should wait until I calm down but I can't.

I am so very angry and hurt by my eldest DS (he is 37) and I don't know if my feelings are justified and if they're not I think there must be something wrong with me. He is the oldest of my 3 DC's. Both my eldest DS's are from my first marriage. My DD is from my second marriage.

The back story is I divorced my ExH 10 years ago; the years leading up to the end were hideous and I was a mental and emotional wreck and thought I was mad; I was drinking too much to cope with things that didn't make sense and I was on antidepressants. ExH is what I think is called functional alcoholism so never really got drunk but couldn't be without alcohol daily; he'd had a gambling habit during university, he told me early on.
In our marriage He'd also had at least one 'emotional affair', and I once came home early in the day to find him alone with one of them who by that time he'd given a job in his service; not having sex but when i walked in he jumped back from her like a scared rabbit. She had also turned up at our house once in the evening claiming to have broken down and couldn't get back to London that evening so we put her up; a week later ExH decided to buy this woman an item of clothing exactly like the one of his that he'd leant her to sleep in because "she loved it so much" and some months I later found texts between them saying I love you.

After couples counselling during which he never accepted or acknowledged that his behaviour was unnaceptable, he left me for a woman he'd lived with whilst at Uni so it was the age old story; that affair was ongoing during the time we were supposed to be saving our marriage and i later found out he'd come to the appointments from being with her. . Eventually his clear hatred of me wasn't enough to tip me over the edge into throwing him out (because I thought the problem was mine). Either alone or together they decided to send me an anonymous letter informing me of the affair and then ExH blamed our then 15 year old DD for having sent it. i know she couldn't have and wouldn't and she was so upset that her DF had suggested it was her; the post mark of the letter placed ExH in the area he works in, too far away for DD to possibly have been in as she was at school.

She, by the way, had learned of his infidelity or put 2 and 2 together and had begged him to tell me but he wouldn't; when I found this out out her anger and spiteful comments to him and telling me I was a fool, began to make sense. I also found out that he had been stealing money from my bank account as part of the plan to screw me financially whilst I was at my most vulnerable but that particualr plan failed. I should've learned what was to come earlier when he once cleared my bank account right up to the overdraft. I know I was stupid not to end it there and then but I'd not long had our DD and had just moved into the first house we'd bought. I so very nearly did though, and I never really felt the same about him after that.

A week after he left and whilst I was still in shock he introduced my eldest DS to the new partner. My younger DS would not have anything to do with ExH.

I'm sorry for telling in such detail (and I've left loads out as you get the picture). So ExH has split with the woman and moved permanently back to the area. He has been seriously ill, very seriously. I have stayed away all this time and I'm in a much better place after lots of therapy and I haven't had alcohol at all for about 8 years and no inclination to drink at all.

But ExH is slowly inching back in to my DS's lives and the 'weak link' has always been eldest DS whose relationship with his birth dad has never been great but it's not awful either. It's been a source of tension for us as ExH is very manipulative and only ever sees people as a resource to help him get what he wants. Younger DS saw him and spoke to him for the first time in 10 years a couple of weeks ago. ExH mentioned that he hadn't met DS's young son (my DGS). It was a clear bid to get that introduction I think. DS didn't respond but I don't think ExH will give up.

I found out this morning that yesterday ExH leant my eldest DS his car to take my DF shopping; DS usually borrows his brothers car to do that on a Sat morning. But I'm told by DS that it suited him to borrow ExH's car yesterday.
Reasonable or not, I am so hurt and I feel like this man is inching his way back in by any means necessary and it's not because his illness has made him have a sudden epiphany. It's because the other relationship ended and he wants what he left behind. I feel like DS is being disloyal; by his own admission he said that if the situation were reversed and I was to spend time with people who have seriously done him wrong, telling them stuff about DS and generally including them in my life he'd be really upset and pissed off with me.

But it's ok for him, because it suited him to use ExH's car.
I have to stop typing now.

[LeimarHELL]

Your son is not betraying you. You have to separate your feelings of hurt and anger towards your ex-husband from your feelings for your son. He is an adult and you cannot dictate who he spends time with.

[ekidmxcl]

OP we have a situation like this in our family. My father is a horrible manipulator. Nasty to my mum, me and my siblings. Both when we were kids and now still when we are adults. None of us have anything to do with him besides Christmas cards, apart from my brother. My father has wormed and manipulated his way into my brother's life, preying on vulnerabilities and he pumps my brother for information about the rest of us. Although I feel frustrated with my brother, he's the victim here. Try to think of your DS in the same category. He is the victim, he's being manipulated by a nasty man. My brother knows my father is nasty, but he himself is too nice and naive to cut him off.

[NameChange2PostThis]

@EarlGreyJenny

Sorry but YABU. As someone with step parents who have been brought in to my life, and then had them removed from my life, it really bugs me that parents can think they can introduce someone into their child's life and then get upset when a relationship is built. It is very selfish. You introduced this man into your child's life, you live with it now. You need to keep your upset to yourself.

This exactly

[LavaCake]

I really feel for you OP because you’ve clearly suffered very badly at the hands of your ex. I’m sure you’re still working through the ramifications of that now, so that even though it’s in the past it still feels like something that has an ongoing effect on your life.

I think you need to step back from your son’s relationship with his father. That relationship will inevitably be different to yours, and it’s not really something you can control. You don’t have to listen to anything about it; but I don’t think you can stop it.

[KarlKennedysDurianFruit]

I completely understand why you are so hurt, but this isn't really any different than if he were your sons' biological father, he was your eldest's father for all intents and purposes from 7-27 and they've had some form of relationship since then.
You admit your drinking and mental state, albeit triggered by the abusive relationship and affairs, but your son's will have suffered because of this. Children (even as adults) have an enormous capacity to overlook things or bury things that have hurt them from a caregiver in order to maintain that bond. This will be even more important given the lack of valuable relationship your sons have with their biological father. They also grew up in an environment where emotional manipulation, gaslighting etc were normalised so may not see your ex's behaviour in the same way we do as outsiders.

[MB90]

Goodness OP, you’re being so unreasonable! It’s not your place to prevent your DS from having a relationship with his own father. He’s 37 for goodness sake

[MsSweary]

He did not have a grim childhood @Northernparent68 you are wrong.

He had the best childhood I could give him on my own; and both my DS's would disagree with you about that.

[MsSweary]

He is not his father. He was his step father; who when it didn't suit him any longer went off to step father someone else's children and for months didn't give a fuck about the carnage he left behind!

[thegcatsmother]

It's about control OP. Even when my parents divorced, my Dad would ring up and complain that Mum had bought a car, or had a small mortgage - info he could only have got from db. My Mum was working full time, so could do this; db and I were both adults so she wasn't supporting either of us.

In the end I told my Dad that he had forfeited any right to dictate how my Mum lived her life or dealt with her finances when he played away again and decided to leave her. I told Mum to stop telling db things as they were finding their way back to Dad.

The more information the ex has the more he can manipulate situations to his own advantage. Been there, and seen that with my parents.

[MsSweary]

Yes I know I am BU. I've said that over and over again.

But our lives were stable and so were both my DS's for long before my ExH came into it; and that's partly what attracted him to me; he didn't have to do any of the spade work I was a ready made source of stability.

[LavaCake]

It doesn’t really matter whether it’s father or step father - there was a parental relationship there for a long time, even if not a good one, and that exists independent of your relationship with either of them.

[IJustWantSomeBees]

While your son is an adult who can decide for himself who he has in his life, it is not ok that he is still giving your ex info about you despite you repeatedly telling him not to (regardless of whether it's intentional or not, he really should be making every effort to not include you in the conversation).

This is probably why you are finding this so difficult, because your (completely reasonable) boundaries are being crossed. I think the pps suggesting you are being manipulative by not wanting your son to talk about you are going over the top, you ex abused you and cheated on you and you have every right to expect your adult child to not feed info about you to him. In the past when you have told your son not to talk about you was it done firmly? Does he know how much it hurts you to know he's discussing you with your ex?

[walfordwatcher]

I am sorry you are upset. However your emotional reaction could come across as being very emotionally manipulative towards your eldest son, and ultimately damage your relationship. Obviously this is the last thing you intend.

Maybe put yourself in your son's place. Imagine you are a grown woman of 37, independent, with children of your own. And that you had been made to live with a step-father for over half your life. Then your mother cries at the fact you are continuing a relationship with the same man who she made you have a relationship with for twenty years. Can you see how unconsiously hypocritical that comes across, how manipulative that can come across too? "You WILL have a relationship with this man for 20 years. STOP. You will now NOT have a relationship with this man!"

I know this is not what you intend of course. But you simply cannot tell someone of 37 who they can see or what they should do. But I know it must be so hard and sorry you are feeling so badly about it, but my advice would be to let your son do whatever he wishes in relation to his step-father and do not interfere or pass judgement. Good luck xx

[MsSweary]

I know i can't tell anyone who to see. I know. I know. I know.

And I've already said that for years I have assumed contact has taken place and ONLY when it comes to light that something about my life changing in some way has been given to him (i.e. I'm moving and where to, changing job and where to, what role, etc etc) have i reacted like this. FGS I do not spend my waking moments wringing my hands over this man and his real or imagined relationship with his Step or birth children. I have a life and job and friends and interests.

But to answer @IJustWantSomeBees yes, I have made it clear. DS just doesn't seem to see that there is manipulation on both sides (given how clear it is that my reactions are seen as manipulative) and that I don't want to feature in any talk he has with the Exh.

[Trixie18]

To be honest I think you need to let your son learn the hard way who his DF is, just be there to pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong 🤔

[ittakes2]

I don’t blame you at all for feeling this way - most people would. But you are making this about you and your feelings. It’s your ex but his birthday father. He must be experiencing a myriad of emotions. You are being unfair to expect it to be so black and white. He has his own emotional journey to go on. If he rejects his dad because if you and regrets it after his dad has gone - he could blame you

[Requinblanc]

I am sorry but this is not about you, what you want or your relationship with your ex...

Your son is an adult and has the right to decide what relationship he wants with some he sees as a father figure.

He does not have to take sides...

He sounds like you are not over the hurt that your ex caused you and you might be better off trying to get some professional, impartial support to deal with this rather than expect your kids to be part of the 'drama'.

[ancientgran]

It really isn't his "birthday" father.

[slashlover]

But our lives were stable and so were both my DS's for long before my ExH came into it; and that's partly what attracted him to me; he didn't have to do any of the spade work I was a ready made source of stability.

From what I can gather, you have been apart for 10 years and were married for 20 so he was in your son's life from before the age of 7 (possibly 4, 5 or 6 depending on how long you dated before marriage) until the age of 27. That's a significant length of time in a child's life, especially when his bio dad isn't in the picture.

[walfordwatcher]

I do not spend my waking moments wringing my hands over this man and his real or imagined relationship with his Step or birth children. I have a life and job and friends and interests

Of course. But you did say that you cannot talk to your son without crying. That does indicate things are very emotional at the moment. And the fact you were considering not talking to your son for a few days because of that, shows that too. Sorry if I have misunderstood that though and hope you feel better about things soon.

[EarlGreyJenny]

@WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo

Sorry but women like you give decent mother's a bad name. Grow up.

That is a horrible thing to say. And not at all true. You are the kind of person that gives Mumsnet a bad name.

[MsSweary]

It must be me but I think people aren't reading the thread.

ALL I want is that contact with my DS does not include him discussing any aspect of my life with his step father. Is that so hard to understand?

If he feels he can't manage to say he won't discuss my personal business with someone whom I don't wish to have any insight into my life then I will obviously limit what I tell DS and what he doesn't know can't hurt anyone can it?

And stop with the personal comments . I AM a decent mother. FFS.

[billy1966]

OP,
I get the annoyance and fury you must feel.

But while you are definitely allowed to feel pissed off, I think you need to be strategic.

You son will have the relationship he wants.
That is his right.

However, as he doesn't respect your wish for privacy, tell your son absolutely NOTHING of value going forward.

Do not engage in any conversation regarding your Ex's health or future....absolutely NOTHING to do with you.

After your Ex is dead, you will continue to have a relationship with your son.

Some people value loyalty, other's don't.
This is life.

Protect your life and your relationships with your children.

Do not give this man anymore time, thought, and power.

Give him indifference.
Pure indifference.

[MsSweary]

Yes I posted at an emotional time, too emotional to have a rational talk with my DS so I came here. That to me was the right thing for him, so I didn't burden him.