To feel hurt and betrayed by my DS?

[MsSweary]

I have been here a long time but I've never posted in AIBU and I'm not sure if that's even relevant but I have to say this to someone. My head is all muddled up and i probably should wait until I calm down but I can't.

I am so very angry and hurt by my eldest DS (he is 37) and I don't know if my feelings are justified and if they're not I think there must be something wrong with me. He is the oldest of my 3 DC's. Both my eldest DS's are from my first marriage. My DD is from my second marriage.

The back story is I divorced my ExH 10 years ago; the years leading up to the end were hideous and I was a mental and emotional wreck and thought I was mad; I was drinking too much to cope with things that didn't make sense and I was on antidepressants. ExH is what I think is called functional alcoholism so never really got drunk but couldn't be without alcohol daily; he'd had a gambling habit during university, he told me early on.
In our marriage He'd also had at least one 'emotional affair', and I once came home early in the day to find him alone with one of them who by that time he'd given a job in his service; not having sex but when i walked in he jumped back from her like a scared rabbit. She had also turned up at our house once in the evening claiming to have broken down and couldn't get back to London that evening so we put her up; a week later ExH decided to buy this woman an item of clothing exactly like the one of his that he'd leant her to sleep in because "she loved it so much" and some months I later found texts between them saying I love you.

After couples counselling during which he never accepted or acknowledged that his behaviour was unnaceptable, he left me for a woman he'd lived with whilst at Uni so it was the age old story; that affair was ongoing during the time we were supposed to be saving our marriage and i later found out he'd come to the appointments from being with her. . Eventually his clear hatred of me wasn't enough to tip me over the edge into throwing him out (because I thought the problem was mine). Either alone or together they decided to send me an anonymous letter informing me of the affair and then ExH blamed our then 15 year old DD for having sent it. i know she couldn't have and wouldn't and she was so upset that her DF had suggested it was her; the post mark of the letter placed ExH in the area he works in, too far away for DD to possibly have been in as she was at school.

She, by the way, had learned of his infidelity or put 2 and 2 together and had begged him to tell me but he wouldn't; when I found this out out her anger and spiteful comments to him and telling me I was a fool, began to make sense. I also found out that he had been stealing money from my bank account as part of the plan to screw me financially whilst I was at my most vulnerable but that particualr plan failed. I should've learned what was to come earlier when he once cleared my bank account right up to the overdraft. I know I was stupid not to end it there and then but I'd not long had our DD and had just moved into the first house we'd bought. I so very nearly did though, and I never really felt the same about him after that.

A week after he left and whilst I was still in shock he introduced my eldest DS to the new partner. My younger DS would not have anything to do with ExH.

I'm sorry for telling in such detail (and I've left loads out as you get the picture). So ExH has split with the woman and moved permanently back to the area. He has been seriously ill, very seriously. I have stayed away all this time and I'm in a much better place after lots of therapy and I haven't had alcohol at all for about 8 years and no inclination to drink at all.

But ExH is slowly inching back in to my DS's lives and the 'weak link' has always been eldest DS whose relationship with his birth dad has never been great but it's not awful either. It's been a source of tension for us as ExH is very manipulative and only ever sees people as a resource to help him get what he wants. Younger DS saw him and spoke to him for the first time in 10 years a couple of weeks ago. ExH mentioned that he hadn't met DS's young son (my DGS). It was a clear bid to get that introduction I think. DS didn't respond but I don't think ExH will give up.

I found out this morning that yesterday ExH leant my eldest DS his car to take my DF shopping; DS usually borrows his brothers car to do that on a Sat morning. But I'm told by DS that it suited him to borrow ExH's car yesterday.
Reasonable or not, I am so hurt and I feel like this man is inching his way back in by any means necessary and it's not because his illness has made him have a sudden epiphany. It's because the other relationship ended and he wants what he left behind. I feel like DS is being disloyal; by his own admission he said that if the situation were reversed and I was to spend time with people who have seriously done him wrong, telling them stuff about DS and generally including them in my life he'd be really upset and pissed off with me.

But it's ok for him, because it suited him to use ExH's car.
I have to stop typing now.

[Coldwinds]

I’d be upset at this too. Your ds knows how you feel.

[marveloustimeruiningeverything]

Stop telling your DS anything you don't want passed on to your exH who was abusive.

If your DS asks you why you don't talk to him any more about anything, be blunt but calm: you have a habit of telling my abusive ex about my personal business, and I don't want him knowing anything about me. Until you can respect that, I can't talk to you about these things either.

If your ex or your DS ever try to raise the issue, directly or indiretly, about you helping out with your ex's care going forward, shut them down immediately: I won't be helping. or That won't be happening. or You/he made his bed, you/he can lie in it, alone.

Good luck.

[MsSweary]

Both DS's have a relationship with their birth father although both talk about him as having abdicated himself of all parental responsibilities as soon as we split up when the boys were very young. That's true. I worked doing any jobs I could and then went to University to improve my job prospects and my DS's have always acknowledged that. I have never attempted to come between them and their Dad, but they have always had to keep the relationship going.

But I think you're right @PicsInRed he has yearned for a close male figure and you're also right that there will be a fair amount of carrot dangling going on. I feel for him in that respect, but also feel I should've made better choices of partners.
Honestly, therapy isn't a magic bullet and I've had tons of it.

[MsSweary]

@marveloustimeruiningeverything thanks I can do that.
And the grey rock thing too.
It just feels unnatural to be considering this about my own DS.

[nostaples]

There are some small similarities with my own situation but my dcs are much younger and the split only 2 years old. Ex dh has behaved badly and in a way that has caused ongoing pain and suffering to me and the dcs. He has been a bad husband, person and father. However, the children still see him even though it is very much on his terms. Like you, I sometimes feel their continuing to forgive him but expectation that I will pick up the pieces afterwards and do more or less all of the care and provision for them, to be disloyal and inconsiderate to me, however they are his children and they love him and want him to love them. That relationship defies what is logic and what is fair and I think standing in the way of it presents you as the problem and is counter-productive in therefore creating a bond between the father and children who can start to see the mum as unreasonable. That is hard to hear and hard to say (harder to do) as someone in a similar boat. You have to hope that rationally your dcs see things as they are and appreciate you and all you have done for them but that parent/ child relationship has to be allowed to be.

[MsSweary]

So whilst I try and not feel so upset about it, and honestly it feels so raw even after all this time) would I BU to not speak to my DS for a few days until I can do so without crying ? He has already phoned me but I can't bring myself to speak without becoming really emotional.

[Foundmy]

I can absolutely understand this being really upsetting & putting you back into feelings of being on high alert due to what you’ve been through before with your ExH.

I think boundaries are key here - explaining to your DS that you respect his decision of who he decides to be in contact with but need him to draw a hard line when it comes to any talk of you & to ask him to respect that. Then once you’ve reached an agreement calmly, no more talk of this with your DS as hard as that might be.

If this man was in his life for 20 years, of course there would be a relationship & emotional connection there, even if there shouldn’t be when balancing up all that has gone on.

You can’t control what others do but the things you can focus on are using any coping strategies you’ve learnt from therapy, taking really good care of yourself during this time, reaching out to friends who aren’t involved in this dynamic for support & establishing that boundary with your son.

I would anticipate in time he’ll come to his own conclusions about your ExH but likely needs the freedom to experience this himself first. As much as you might want to put distance between your DS & ExH, these lessons are learnt through experience & no matter how much we might warn people, it doesn’t often change their decision until they understand this for themselves.

Remind yourself often that you’re safe & you’re in charge of your own decisions now. You’re separate from this man’s manipulations so long as you don’t engage.

Wishing you lots of luck. Be kind & gentle with yourself, you’ve been through a lot & that pot is getting stirred up again but it will settle again too.

[EarlGreyJenny]

I think that you should explain to him how you feel but you are trying to understand it from his position and that you need to get your head around it and need some space for both your sakes. None of this is your DS's fault and it would be a shame for your upset to make feel as if he is, although I can understand you don't want your ex knowing your business or you being drawn back into his life.

[VodselForDinner]

I think your feelings are misplaced.

It sounds like your three children were raised in a difficult environment and dragged into adult issues that they should have been shielded from.

Did you ever arrange any kind of counseling for them when they were younger?

My concern would be that they have unclear boundaries when it comes to male role models. If your eldest son is a people-pleaser and keen to have a relationship with this man (an ersatz father), he might find that he’s putting himself into a burdened position as a caregiver in return for crumbs of attention or affection.

[Iwonder08]

OP, your ex is not good partner, but he might be a good step father. Absolutely back off. It has nothing to do with loyalty to you.. You are not entitled to dictate how you adult children feel and act towards other people in their life. Your DS is not responsible for you making decision to suffer for many years staying with this man and doesn't have to side with you on all occasions. Maybe stop for once and think abourlt your son's feelings rather than just your own?

[Bluntness100]

Op, it’s been ten years, and you’re still not over this. To be still at rhe weeping stage over the thought of your son being friendly with him is deeply concerning for your mental health. It could also be seen as manipulative

I think you need to seek help to move on.

My friends mother was like this, and until the day she died in her eighties too, she carried it for about three decades, the hate and the upset And she was never able to maintain another relationship long term and lived her life deeply unhappy if anyone dared to even speak to him.

For your own sake I think you need to get help to come to terms with this. 💐

[lyralalala]

It’s understandable that you are hurt, but try and keep in mind how cleverly this man was able to manipulate you for years.

It’s highly likely he’s using the same manipulation skills (abusers tend to be verrrrry charming people outwardly!) to win over your DS.

[ancientgran]

I had a similar sort of issue, not as difficult though as it wasn't my child it was my sibling and mother. I got divorced, ex was an alcoholic, hopeless father who always let the kids down and who had an affair resulting in a pregnancy that the other woman asked me to to pay for an abortion. Anyway I ended it but my mother felt sorry for him, saw him and his family regularly and I found out they discussed things about my life. I told her she could choose her daughter or her exSIL, I could accept some casual contact but no information to be shared about me.

My sibling also decided to make him his best friend which resulted in me not attending his wedding.

I really feel for you and I know you can't be as ruthless as I was, he is your child even if he is 37. I don't think people understand the feelings of betrayal if you haven't experienced it. I can't give you a solution but all I can say is I do understand, it isn't you it's them.

[Didkdt]

You sound very emotional about it. Your son borrowed a car to take your dad shopping and you feel so betrayed you can't stop crying?
As you alluded to, you put this man in your children's lives for years, he is the father of their sister. They had a relationship for a long time THAT WAS SEPARATE from yours and now you want them to end that relationship because you have.
There are some things in life you can't change and that section of your family is part of it. He may not be there dad but he was a significant figure in their lives and they had a different interaction with him than you did.

[VettiyaIruken]

You can't control what your nearly 40 year old son does.

But you can and should tell him to not discuss you in any way. If he continues to do that, then put him on an information diet!
Also tell him you are not interested in hearing anything about him. Follow that up by saying stop. I do not want to hear this. If he tries to do it anyway.

Above all else, remember that your actions are the only thing you are in charge of. So what if he is trying to wriggle back in to be taken care of? You don't have to. So don't choose to.

[CatherinedeBourgh]

I’m sorry but you imposed this person on your ds for much of his life even though you knew he was not the best person, because you weren’t ready to move on from him.

Now you are, you expect your ds to be too, regardless of his own feelings or processes.

You should be supporting your ds to work through his relationship with his sf and his feelings, regardless of how you feel. And giving him as much time as he needs to do so.

After all, he had no choice when you were taking your time.

[TheMamaYo]

I think your son has the right to have a relationship with his father, despite what happened between the two of you. If it was me, I would speak to him and ask that you and the other children are kept out of their conversations as much as possible. But you couldn’t possibly expect him not to have a relationship if that is what he wants. What happened between the two of you is not his business.

[Serin]

I'm 100%in agreement with Bluntness100

The only person who will be hurt here is yourself. Your DS's can make their own decisions about who they have relationships with and if you try to control and manipulate them you will push them away.

If your Exh is as bad as you say, they will soon find him out.

Move on, find other things to be interested in, hobbies, friends, pets, grandchildren, your career if you are still working or volunteering if you are retired.

Put the focus on you and what makes you happy.

[rottiemum88]

Sorry but YABU. As someone with step parents who have been brought in to my life, and then had them removed from my life, it really bugs me that parents can think they can introduce someone into their child's life and then get upset when a relationship is built. It is very selfish. You introduced this man into your child's life, you live with it now. You need to keep your upset to yourself

This. And no, I don’t think you should ignore your DS until you can pull yourself together, he hasn’t done anything wrong. You need to find a way to get a handle on your emotions and not make them a problem for your children to deal with. It’s emotionally manipulative and cruel.

[thegcatsmother]

The issues between you and your ex should remain just between the two of you.

It is not always that easy when the children are witnessing the issues right in front of them and having to deal with the effects of that.

I think you have to draw a line OP, and tell your ds that you want no information about your life to get back to your ex, and if he can't do that, then conversation is going to get really dull when you see each other. When you do see or talk to your ds, talk about nothing but the weather. He'll get the message.

[SugarCoatIt]

You can't not speak to your son for a few days, he was taking your DF shopping and doing you a favour, and you will put him in an even more awkward position and add unnecessary strain to your relationship with him.

Please don't ray and let your horrible experience, which I fully acknowledge, blur your DS relationship with his step dad.

For what it's worth, I know someone whose ex husband was a complete and utter bastard to them, but he was fine with their shared children, and she encouraged them to have a relationship with them and maintain it, because it was about the kids, not her.

I think you would be better focusing your energy into trying to resolve your own issues surrounding your experience with your ex H.

[SpongeBobJudgeyPants]

I sympathise Sweary. I can see how it feels unnatural for you to not tell stuff to your son. But at this point, maybe it feels more important to protect yourself in this way? Second a PP about counselling going forward. There is a lot of hurt coming through your post

[tara66]

OP - you know exactly what the history is but I would suggest and I am not a psychologist that you write a letter - even if you don't post it - to you ex - telling him at length - how you hate and despise him; how much you suffered by the relationship; how you wish you never met him, etc. and also let him know to stay away from you and your children; tell him you will never help him if he is ill etc - in the strongest possible terms - if you do that it might be easier for you not to feel so resentful of your son. Your son is getting all your ''backlash'' but you should give it all to the man involved.

[2bazookas]

Your post is all about you and "he done me wrong".

Your sons are not you. They are adults who can make their own decisions, choices, relationships. It's not their fault you chose them a crap father. But he IS their father, and they still feel some kinship and identify with him. That's perfectly normal. Many children and adults still have feelings for even the worst parents. Haven't your sons stayed in contact with you, despite their broken home and all your problems with booze, MH,

You now seem to be transferring to your sons, all the anger, resentment, jealousy and blame you feel for their father. That's irrational, unfair, and self-defeating, and will damage your relations with your sons.

So, instead of accusing your EX of manipulating your sons feelings, try looking in the mirror. Isn't that exactly what you're doing to them?

If their father is still a manipulative bastard I they are old enough to work that out for themselves. This might be ir last chance of closure, and coming to terms with the past, because he's dying.

You need to step back, give your sons space to grow strong and find their own way. That's what parenting is all about in the end.

[EarlGreyJenny]

Does your son have children? The issue with being so strict on saying that you don't want to hear anything about your ex is that makes other people tell half-truths and feel guilty? "Don't tell granny we did this today, it would upset her" etc. It's a horrible thing to impose on people. I think that you need to practice your fake smile and suck this up.