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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't think I can wait 8 years one this.

202 replies

Tornonafriday · 25/09/2020 10:45

I'm very career driven. DP not so much. ATM were living in the west country with next to no job opportunities for me. I'm massively underemployed and as much as try not to think about it every now and then it comes back and I hate it. I resent my partner that I won't have the career I want because he won't move as he wants to remain close to his DC.

OP posts:
Plentyofshit · 26/09/2020 19:45

...my working career that is...

WellQualifiedToRepresentTheLBC · 26/09/2020 19:45

[quote Plentyofshit]@WellQualifiedToRepresentTheLBC My argument is that - and I think I stated this right at the start - if your children have food/shelter/warmth/access to good education/healthcare - then - up until the age where they become more independent - one parent should prioritise the needs of the children, and see this as an important and valuable career.[/quote]
I think you aren't too good at critical thinking, if this is your argument.

So one parent should always make a short term choice to deprioritize their ability to make an income, in favor of "prioritizing"* children, even if that short term choice is disastrous long term, for both parent and child?

  • you don't explain what this means really, but I suspect you don't quite know. I've worked ft since my DS was 1, he has always been my priority though?

Your statements don't hold up when measured against real life examples:
If I had followed your guidelines, my DS and I would now be stuck in an abusive household.
My mum followed what you say, she was a crap mother who of course told all and sundry, including herself, that she "prioritized the children", no one benefited and now I as her child am paying the price long term.
The OP herself is in a dire situation of vulnerability here herself - she's unmarried and a lower earner than her partner. Your guidelines could ruin her life and her child's life.

There is no evidence for anything you're saying and I can't find merit in them. You're parroting things you tell yourself about your own choices, presumably because you feel threatened by an approach that challenges these beliefs.

In practice, children have always been reared in communities. Having a single human being in charge of raising a child is a very modern invention and has few merits, practically speaking.

Plentyofshit · 26/09/2020 19:54

@WellQualifiedToRepresentTheLBC. I’d say - particularly at pre-school age, children need a lot of love, support and guidance. I think a career break, part time role or SAHM role should not be seen as ‘failure’ if this can be achieved by one parent, so long as basic needs can be provided for. The view that parenting is not a valid career or role is wrong in my view.

Plentyofshit · 26/09/2020 19:57

Why shouldn’t her partner take this role?

Tornonafriday · 26/09/2020 19:57

Sorry! I haven't been able to reply as I've been working and then had a day out. Yes, I think there's no empathy but there's some sympathy. He said that he'd have no issues to move away with baby even of of he's 8/9. I'm not so sure about that and I'd rather he'd finish primary school. Over time he's moved from "we have to stay" to "I have to stay". I love my family and him. I even love our house and the home we've built together. I'm sure a career won't give me that happiness nor satisfaction. That's how I know I'm making a conscious choice. Obviously there's times when it comes back and I don't feel great about it but I'm working on it. I know I had to say goodbye to that career but that doesn't mean I can't get a new one through retraining. Thank you so much for your reply. I was just angry at him for criticising my time management. He's already apologised about it .

OP posts:
WellQualifiedToRepresentTheLBC · 26/09/2020 20:02

[quote Plentyofshit]@WellQualifiedToRepresentTheLBC. I’d say - particularly at pre-school age, children need a lot of love, support and guidance. I think a career break, part time role or SAHM role should not be seen as ‘failure’ if this can be achieved by one parent, so long as basic needs can be provided for. The view that parenting is not a valid career or role is wrong in my view.[/quote]
Love, support and guidance is offered by working parents and their support networks... in spades.

Children benefit from being loved and supported by multiple loved ones. The laser focus of one parent isn't always beneficial. It teaches children very odd things about life that aren't always good for them, or others.

A career break, pt role or sahp (interesting that you insist on only saying sahm) role only benefits a child whose parent is actually good at parenting, and who finds it very fulfilling. That isn't everyone. Some people hate parenting. How do their kids benefit from you insisting they spend more time with them?

Your views seem to be more about your specific circumstances than really about what benefits most people.

Codexdivinchi · 26/09/2020 20:04

Plentyofshit What ? that I want my dds to be more than a SAHM? Which is role massively pushed on to women because of the gap in pay between earning potential between men and women?

Why did you choose to be a SAHM? Apart from being born for the role?

I’m gobsmacked too that you don’t realise that not all women are hugely fulfilled with being a house wife/SAHM. A bloody lot can have a career and parent just fine.

It’s not a career choosing to stay at home and look after your own kids no matter how you dress it up.

Yes it can be hard and tiresome and tbh I hated it. It bored me. Once the kids were in school there was zero reason for me to potter around an empty house.

As you keep going on about what the dictionary states what opportunities of progress do you have? As that what it says in the dictionary. Opportunities for progress.

Codexdivinchi · 26/09/2020 20:10

@Plentyofshit

And I would want my DS and DD to say the same about me - that I love them both more than my career.
Oh Christ you sound like my ex mil - ‘I devoted my life to my boys!...’

I really don’t think your kids will ever say that or even think it. They won’t give two shits unless you remind them constantly of what you gave up Grin

UserABCDE12345 · 26/09/2020 20:32

You've posted about this before, more than once and on more than 1 forum. You have proved in the past that even your own child isn't a barrier to your career. Do this man a favour and leave him for your precious career before you end up resenting him.

MarthasGinYard · 26/09/2020 21:44

'You've posted about this before, more than once and on more than 1 forum.'

Yes

And I thought Op has a dc from prev relationship.

UserABCDE12345 · 27/09/2020 00:53

@MarthasGinYard

'You've posted about this before, more than once and on more than 1 forum.'

Yes

And I thought Op has a dc from prev relationship.

She does. Career is more important.
Plentyofshit · 27/09/2020 02:45

@WellQualifiedToRepresentTheLBC I very clearly have not applied that role to a gender, so if I used the term SAHM, I was using a term that others were using to argue with. SAHP is better.

I in no way stated that children should be the ‘laser focus’ of course that’s not healthy. I’m saying that one parents needs to prioritise the children’s needs. Say for example in lockdown - where one parent needs to home educate. I think the term ‘some parents hate parenting’ is sad. Why have children if you hate parenting - and what is it about parenting that is so hateful? Yes - it’s challenging, but to say you ‘hate’ it, suggests a rejection/dismissal of the role.

Plentyofshit · 27/09/2020 03:07

@Codexdivinchi No - I absolutely think it’s a role that can be undertaken by either parent. I think your misinterpreting what I’m saying - so I’ll repeat. Parenting is a career/job/role and it shouldn’t be devalued. I think It’s wrong to see a career purely in monetary terms - of course there are opportunities to progress in parenting, explain to me why there are not? The first day I brought my DD home, I had no idea what to do - the first few years of her life were one of my biggest learning curves. I made PROGRESS, and it took a lot of hard work. But you are saying that my role here was a failure - as I chose to work part time in order to support her/prioritise her needs?

WellQualifiedToRepresentTheLBC · 27/09/2020 04:01

[quote Plentyofshit]@WellQualifiedToRepresentTheLBC I very clearly have not applied that role to a gender, so if I used the term SAHM, I was using a term that others were using to argue with. SAHP is better.

I in no way stated that children should be the ‘laser focus’ of course that’s not healthy. I’m saying that one parents needs to prioritise the children’s needs. Say for example in lockdown - where one parent needs to home educate. I think the term ‘some parents hate parenting’ is sad. Why have children if you hate parenting - and what is it about parenting that is so hateful? Yes - it’s challenging, but to say you ‘hate’ it, suggests a rejection/dismissal of the role.[/quote]
Yes... some people do reject and/or dismiss the role. Which is why your advice isn't great, really. Unless it isnt really advice, and more just your statement of how the world/other people ought to be? Fwiw, if that's what it is, that isn't helpful. Like, to anyone. People make choices based on their actual circumstances, not ideals. People who don't enjoy parenting probably shouldn't quit their jobs to be sahp, it won't make for happy kids.

I am home educating and working full time... why on earth would I quit or reduce my income if I don't have to. My ex husband does his part and so do I, no need for one person to quit their job to "prioritize" a child - multiple people can contribute, as they have throughout human history. Are you just really sheltered maybe?

Plentyofshit · 27/09/2020 06:05

@WellQualifiedToRepresentTheLBC To think that it’s acceptable to reject or dismiss the role of parenting is unacceptable, and I can’t believe you think it’s ok to advocate that. Are you really saying that if you become a parent, decide you don’t like it - that’s no problem? Or should you work very hard on the things you find challenging about the role for the sake of your children? Explain to me the reason why it’s acceptable to hate parenting.

Plentyofshit · 27/09/2020 06:06

I didn’t say anything about quitting your working role - I haven’t quit mine, I’ve adapted it while my children are little. I’m saying the the parenting role is more valuable.

Plentyofshit · 27/09/2020 06:20

If - between both parents - you can prioritise your children’s needs and work full time then that’s no problem! Personally, I wouldn’t have been able to work full time, home school with a 9 month old and a 9 year old.

SheeshazAZ09 · 27/09/2020 06:29

Can you get a job of your choice and get lodgings for the weekdays near the job but then go home at weekends? And get some childcare during week? Friend of mine has been doing this for years and it works for their family.

BitOfFun · 27/09/2020 06:56

@Plentyofshit

Looking after a 1 year old is a very challenging, valuable and rewarding career.
It really isn't.
AngelaScandal · 27/09/2020 06:58

Surely it’s one of the most joyous, amazing things you can do in life! And I would say you are absolutely the most important thing to your parents, not their careers

You seem to be doing a lot of projecting here PlentyofShit. There’s a strong line in ‘I love it so you should too’.

Plentyofshit · 27/09/2020 07:04

@BitOfFun It is. Really.

Plentyofshit · 27/09/2020 07:05

I do love it. Why should I be ashamed to express that? Or not think parenting is a vital role?

Codexdivinchi · 27/09/2020 07:57

[quote Plentyofshit]@Codexdivinchi No - I absolutely think it’s a role that can be undertaken by either parent. I think your misinterpreting what I’m saying - so I’ll repeat. Parenting is a career/job/role and it shouldn’t be devalued. I think It’s wrong to see a career purely in monetary terms - of course there are opportunities to progress in parenting, explain to me why there are not? The first day I brought my DD home, I had no idea what to do - the first few years of her life were one of my biggest learning curves. I made PROGRESS, and it took a lot of hard work. But you are saying that my role here was a failure - as I chose to work part time in order to support her/prioritise her needs?[/quote]
You getting better at parenting is not career profession Confused

I think you and your dh have convinced yourself of that to sweeten the pill that you were the one left behind doing the parenting whilst he skipped off to his career. Can I ask why you stayed at home and your dh didn’t?

Parenting is a vital role. No one here is saying it isn’t.

Saying being a SAHP is a full time career is just a platitude In RL parents are full time parents who work also if the need or want too.

Be proud that your a SAHP but also be aware that not every one would be satisfied with being just that.

Walkingwounded · 27/09/2020 08:02

To come back to op.

OP - I was you. Made the choice to give up the big job, which I loved, and move to DH’s local area. Was my last chance to have kids really.

15 years later we are divorcing. I have been very very lucky - After trying a few local jobs, I managed to get back in to my field and carve out a freelance role which I could do remotely. Now, I thank fuck I hung in there. It has absolutely saved mine and the DCs future. With a lower paying, more local job, I would have struggled to buy a house etc etc.

As someone said upthread, he is making no compromises while you are making them all. Covid has thrown up opportunities for remote working - 4 days a week remote, 1 day in London in the office etc etc. Or fully remote. Plus resentment builds slowly over time....

I suggest you think about securing your future and the baby’s, looking for a role which allows mostly remote working. Increased earnings can only benefit your family. You have the capability, so don’t look back in the future and regret not using it.

Plentyofshit · 27/09/2020 08:12

@Codexdivinchi It’s one thing to say it’s not a career, or it’s not progression - but you need to justify that statement - and you haven’t given me an adequate explanation as to why it’s not?
Can I ask why you’ve made those assumptions about my family set up? I haven’t stated my gender - or marital status.
All I’m saying is the role of parenting should not be devalued. My personal stance is that it’s a career, and to me - more important than my working role - and I’m not ashamed to say this.

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