Shell shocked by what BIL has texted me

[Pineapplesandflamingoes]

This is a weird one I know. I am a regular mumsnetter and recently changed my username but this is genuine. I have only changed a couple of details about the family set up just in case it could be outing but otherwise this is what has happened.

I’m shell shocked because a week ago my BIL texted me to say he is divorcing my sister because he couldn’t take any more. The marriage has become completely toxic over the years and they have largely been living separate lives in the same house. I knew this was coming due to my sister telling me how bad things were and also my grown up nieces.

Just to give some background, they have been together for over 30 years and for at least 25 of those years they seemed happy and content. Nearly always together unless they were working and focusing on their family. I never had any clue anything could be wrong but of course that is often the case.

I replied to say I’m sorry to hear about the divorce but I think it is for the best so they can both move on and find happiness. I said try not to be bitter about it as it doesn’t help matters and to think of his mental heath. (I know he isn’t in a good place mentally).

Shortly after I sent that reply he went on to say that my sister had been bringing men back to the house and she had done it again recently and that was why he couldn’t take any more. He attached 2 video’s, I didn’t watch them but could see from the picture on each video that it was my sister with a man and one of them showed she was half dressed. I’ve deleted them and told him this and said I don’t want to be in the middle of this and want to support them both through the divorce.

I really believe that there is much more to all this than first impressions which I admit don’t look good. But how many husband’s do you know would sit in their home and video his wife while she is doing things with another man? My BIL is a burly testosterone fuelled type and I just can’t imagine he would stand for that unless it’s something they might have done before in a kind of threesome or he watches type of thing. I have heard rumours from acquaintances who have said that they thought they might be swingers. I’m wondering now if he is recording so that he has ammunition against her for the divorce, but why not just go for a no fault divorce?

I really don’t want to judge, I just feel awful about the whole thing and sick to my stomach that he would find it appropriate to send me these videos of my sister. Who else has he sent them to? I know of at least one other person.
I just don’t know what to think or how to react. I don’t know whether to tell my sister. Like I say I just feel shell shocked really.

@CaraDuneRedux

Adultery is a serious crime in many countries around the world, with extremely serious sentences, I wish it was the same in the U.K.

That's got to be one of the most chillingly horrible things I've ever read on here. You do realise, don't you, that the sort of country where this is typically true is the sort of country where women get stoned to death for adultery?

Mad isn't it to believe that it would be good to introduce here. What a dream to live in a country where I would have thought phew I was only 18 and not married when I was raped so I won't get punished by the law. So ignorant.

If he is a cuckold, then your SIL will be able to say this, if he tries to use it against her in any way.

There will be evidence of one way or another.

From a lot of what I know about cuckolding or hot-wifing.... it's almost always instigated by the man...and can take a lot of persuasion to get the wife on board.

Your description of him being a testosterone fuelled alpha male, doesn't sound like most cuckolds though...so perhaps the swinging is the more likely story.

Either way...it's their business, but word does seem to have gotten out about it which is unusual, unless one of them didn't mind other people knowing.

Swingers usually play away from their home territory for reasons of confidentiality.

Good luck with everything.

Wow just wow can you imagine if wife filmed DH with someone else. There would be round of applause on here for her getting proof and to kick her out.

Not if she sent the footage to other people, there wouldn't.

Adultery is a serious crime in many countries around the world, with extremely serious sentences, I wish it was the same in the U.K.

A serious and punishable crime for the woman .

Men in these countries can usually sh*g whoever they want without any recrimination.

Not a culture I would want my DD to live in. or to live in myself.

I'm really shocked you didn't say anything to her about the swinging comments. I'm sure someone would want to know if people are saying that sort of thing.

Thank you everyone for your posts I have read them all.
The comment about harsher laws for those committing adultery verges on chilling because as others have said some countries think nothing of stoning mainly women to death for even a rumour of adultery. I’d much rather stay with the system we have and have access to a no fault divorce.

Someone asked why I didn’t say anything to her about rumours I had heard. It was exactly because they were rumours and at that time I had no reason to believe them. If they were swingers at that time it wouldn’t be my business and my sister never showed any signs of problems in the marriage.

Just to update I have spoken to my sister and my eldest niece. I have been told an awful lot of things I didn’t know. My sister has clearly said she doesn’t want to get the police involved even though I told her BIL has committed a crime and I will provide evidence of this. I have told her if she changes her mind I will support her but whatever she decides I am there for her.
My sister said BIL has been threatening to send videos and pictures of her to all sorts of people, family members, friends, her work place. So far it seems he hasn’t done this so I do not know what has prompted him sending them to me. Apart from one other person he has showed a video to. She cannot understand it either. I told her I only saw a few seconds of it. She hasn’t gone into full details about any of the sexual stuff and I haven’t asked her to, but it is clear he has been bullying her and coercing her for many years. It is him who has filmed this and it does fit the cuckold description. He has been encouraging her to meet men and bring them home for a long time. She didn’t want to partake in this initially and he just kept on and on and on about it. It seems it is mainly the one man. Drink is involved, I think this is also a big problem.

My niece was also aware of the threats so she wasn’t too shocked by what I told her. She is going to the solicitor with her Mum to get further advice. She did say her Mum hasn’t been having affairs but she is aware her Dad has been encouraging her to speak to other men and meet with them. She didn’t go into more detail and I didn’t either because it is not fair on her.

BIL seems set on divorce this time even though he has threatened it so many times in the past and not done anything. My sister said he threatened to send me videos (she didn’t know what kind) on the night he did actually send them to me. Nothing in particular seems to have prompted this that she knows of.
I have been told that he goes out most nights visiting ‘friends’ and if anyone is having an affair he is. He sees them (a couple) every day and spends a lot of money on them, going for meals and outings. We think they might have a lot to do with the changes in his behaviour, they obviously have a lot more to gain money wise if he divorces. They certainly aren’t looking out for him and don’t seem to care about his mental health problems because him being around suits them well.

It turns out he takes videos and pictures of my sister all the time, when she meets female friends and they collect her and has even spotted her out and about and phones her to say why is she here with so and so. It is bat shit crazy behaviour from him, none of those things mean anything. His behaviour has become more intolerable as time has gone on and whereas before she accepted the status quo she is glad the divorce is happening and the house is on the market.
She seems completely at a loss but knows she has my support, her daughter’s and a close group of friends she can rely on. She won’t be facing this alone.
As you can imagine this is all a total shit show with no easy solutions. The house sale and divorce can’t happen soon enough.

Thanks for the update OP. I’m glad your sister is feeling supported through this difficult time..

It must have been tough for you hearing about how he’s been treating your sister and nieces.

@ALLIS0N - Thank you. It really was tough, I didn’t know what would be said when I told them. At least it wasn’t all a total bolt from the blue for them both.

@Pineapplesandflamingoes

I did think is it illegal? But could he then change his story and say it was a consensual thing to save his own neck? I just don’t know whether to hope they get divorced quickly and for all this to be over. But then he could carry on showing people this stuff. Where does it end?

It is definitely illegal for him to share photos if your sister in a state of undress without her permission. Revenge porn is definitely illegal

With thanks to this thread I am now clear it is illegal. My sister doesn’t want to go to the police so I will be respecting her wishes. But she knows if she changes her mind I will support her on this.

Sorry just seen the update. Glad your sister is getting legal advice. Your BIL sounds like an abusive creep.

Thank you, yes he is a disgusting excuse for a man.

@msflibble

So tired of the "change the sexes" BS. The whole point is that the sexes aren't changed are they?? Revenge porn sites are used by men, to shame women, and instances of the reverse are vanishingly rare. Stop ignoring incredibly obvious and entrenched sexist social dynamics to make a non-point excusing completely unacceptable behaviour.

And oh btw any female poster who sent a video of her ex shagging another woman to his brother would get her arse handed to her on MN. Stop talking nonsense.

Well put.

Well that changes things rather a lot, doesn't it - your update, I mean.

How unpleasant he sounds! Stalkerish, possessive, obsessive - ugh.

I hope your sister can get out in a quick clean divorce and leave him behind forever.

So your sister knew he was taking the videos. Which doesn't constitute consent but I think the law is you just have to know it's happening for it to be 'ok'.

How FANTASTIC that his 'sex couple' want him to get divorced and he's set on it!!!!! Omg!!! All be as quiet as church mice and get this done ASAP!

He's appalling and your sister has been through a nightmare, and your niece. So at this stage don't fuck around and start causing trouble with him - forget the legality or otherwise of his filming and stalking - just get them out and the divorce done. As he's 'alpha' (sounds omega to me!) then just let him feel he's steering his awful ship out of port and going off. And let him go.

Your focus here needs to be outcomes. As follow:

Your sister and niece free of him, not living with him.
Him gone.
His sexual interest and proprietorship towards your sister dissolved.
Money.

If you can achieve all this quickly and smoothly, I'd go for minimum fuss at the moment.

And pre empt these films being sent around. Tell your family and friends he may do this.

Your sister has what she needs - your excellent support. At the moment I'd say work with her on a speedy divorce and getting the most money and assets.

He's a fuckwit and it was a great day he met that couple and they started winkling him off your sister.

I agree with lunalula’s approach.

Don’t rattle his cage.

This is potentially a v volatile and dangerous situation and your Dsis MH is also likely v fragile and unpredictable.

I hope that she gets to emotional and physical safety soon and I hope when she is there she doesn’t look back and can rebuild her spirit without him hounding, harassing or haunting her.

@Pineapplesandflamingoes a shocking, but not necessarily surprising, update.
What a fucking piece of work your BIL is. Just unbelievable that pond life like him exist. Your poor sister.
Good work on keeping your head and taking action. If I might suggest it, you could message your BIL letting him know you are keeping the video as evidence he has done something illegal and that you won't hesitate to go to the police if he sends the video to anyone else.

I also agree with lunalulu.

That said, and I would never normally suggest placating a man like this, is it worth OP responding to BIL something like "you do know that sharing these films onwards is illegal?" - certainly not for his protection, but to ensure that as much of the DSis's dignity is kept? Almost like a subtle warning?

Still keep the videos as evidence (just in case).

The very first goal is to allow the divorce to go ahead for your relative's sake, but the second is to prevent this piece of shit from trashing her reputation entirely.

msflibble - slow at typing me. I agree with this approach.

I suspect that BIL doesn't actually want a divorce at all, his story is completely implausible.

I suspect it’s just a threat which he uses as a control tactic. I bet he’s threatened this many time before and she’s backed down.

My guess is he’s doing this now to punish her for something she’s done or not done. Once he Realises that she is taking it seriously, he will either back down and promise her the world if she takes him back.

Or he will Rapidly escalate his abusive and controlling behaviour.

I’d ask her what her husband would do if he really REALLY wanted to hurt her and destroy her life. Then assume he’s going to do that and act accordingly.

I know this is really tough for you OP. Because you have known this man for , what, 25 years and you now realise you had no idea what he was like and how he was treating your sister and Nieces. It can be hard to get your head around - these things only happen in other people’s families.

It’s only afterwards that you look back and see the small signs that you didn’t think anything of at the time. It’s very distressing and it’s easy to feel guilty, even though it’s not your fault.

You are a good sister.

Also I’d not contact BIL in any way, in fact I’d block him on all channels. Because

1. He already knows it’s illegal and he doesn’t care
2. If he doesn't know, you want to keep your powder dry
3. Don’t get into control games with a narc. He’s an expert and you are a beginner
4. Any contact he has with your or his wife’s family will only be to manipulated you / them and will be used to harm your sister.

He may target your parents, especially if they are elderly and / or strongly believe that divorce is wrong. He will use that to convince her that everyone is against her and they only believe him.

That’s probably why she’s stayed so long - because that’s what she feels - that she will have nothing and be nothing without him.

It’s vitally important for her mental health that she know that you, her family and friends and a SHL are on her side. Otherwise she will end up going back to him and the abuse will soon be even worse.

Pineapple - sorry (but not surprised) I turned out to be right about the cuckolding things. Your OP just rang so many bells from my sister's experience.

Has your sister got a lawyer yet? I don't recommend talking to BIL directly (I think as much contact as possible should go through lawyers) but if your sis does have a lawyer I would make sure he/she knew about the videos, and ask for their advice and talk through the possibility of giving him formal warning not to send the videos to anyone else (I don't know if this can be done, since strictly what he's done is a criminal offence rather than a civil offence - but the sooner someone with some legal clout is involved in this, the better).

And I agree with the advice upthread about keep your eye on the prize. The prize being getting your sister a divorce as soon as possible, with her financial situation intact.

I agree with @ALLIS0N - you have no idea of the depths of depravity of these characters if you have not been entangled with one before.

Their MH plummets and their personality disorder traits progress with age and then escalate rapidly under stress / transition / threat of exposure of their dark abusive world. Also if there is substance abuse (you mentioned bottles, and coke is often associated with sex) this is rocket fuel.

@lunalulu - Thank you, you have given sound advice. I have been so tempted to text BIL and tell him what a vile waste of skin I think he is and to start threatening him with the police. But I have decided not to text him again as others have said I think he will just escalate things. He is already spiralling and I don’t want to make matters worse in any way. My priority is supporting my sister and nieces.
I have thought of warning other family members of BIL and him potentially sending them these video’s. It turns out some time ago he ranted on the phone to a relative of ours about my sister’s ‘vile’ behaviour and the relative shouted him down and told him she didn’t believe a word of it and visited my sister to support her. BIL’s trouble is that so far nobody is on his side apart from his new ‘friends’ who we think are rinsing him dry which is all he deserves. I’m still reeling at the fact he sent those video’s to me so out of the blue. That does worry me because it’s so unexpected and where does he go next?

@msflibble & @LittleEsme - I have decided against telling BIL that because he really is acting batshit now and I can’t risk setting him off on any new destructive paths. As much as I’d like to threaten him and let him know how it feels. I’m hoping that he realises I am supporting my sister and so his plan has backfired.
I have got the video’s saved and my sister knows I have got them in case in the future the evidence is needed.

@ALLIS0N - You are right BIL has threatened divorce many many times and nothing has happened. This time my sister thinks it is really happening and she is actually ready for it.
Thank you for your words of support. You are right it has been incredibly hard hearing all this, things I had no idea BIL was capable of. It is like some far fetched soap plot.
I don’t intend to text or speak to BIL again. I’m going to see what he does next and go from there.

@MySisToo - You were right and it’s still hard to fathom what has been going on. My niece is going to see a solicitor with my sister this week and they will be mentioning the video’s. Thanks also for your advice.

@Sssloou - Yes exactly it worries me greatly about BIL’s depravity and the limits he will go to now. He has no filter left and no boundaries. His MH is very fragile but yet it is everyone else who has a problem. He is basically unreachable. I’m not sure if BIL is also dealing with any addictions because he has a number of health conditions which aren’t well managed. It wouldn’t surprise me.

Thank you all again for taking the time to offer advice in what is the strangest situation I could ever have imagined.

Yes, perhaps approaching a Solicitor with the fact that he's sending these videos is the most effective thing to do.' I'd definitely agree that approaching the whole situation with caution is the best advice. Your poor DSis and DN. As another poster aptly said, you are a good sister.