Shell shocked by what BIL has texted me

[Pineapplesandflamingoes]

This is a weird one I know. I am a regular mumsnetter and recently changed my username but this is genuine. I have only changed a couple of details about the family set up just in case it could be outing but otherwise this is what has happened.

I’m shell shocked because a week ago my BIL texted me to say he is divorcing my sister because he couldn’t take any more. The marriage has become completely toxic over the years and they have largely been living separate lives in the same house. I knew this was coming due to my sister telling me how bad things were and also my grown up nieces.

Just to give some background, they have been together for over 30 years and for at least 25 of those years they seemed happy and content. Nearly always together unless they were working and focusing on their family. I never had any clue anything could be wrong but of course that is often the case.

I replied to say I’m sorry to hear about the divorce but I think it is for the best so they can both move on and find happiness. I said try not to be bitter about it as it doesn’t help matters and to think of his mental heath. (I know he isn’t in a good place mentally).

Shortly after I sent that reply he went on to say that my sister had been bringing men back to the house and she had done it again recently and that was why he couldn’t take any more. He attached 2 video’s, I didn’t watch them but could see from the picture on each video that it was my sister with a man and one of them showed she was half dressed. I’ve deleted them and told him this and said I don’t want to be in the middle of this and want to support them both through the divorce.

I really believe that there is much more to all this than first impressions which I admit don’t look good. But how many husband’s do you know would sit in their home and video his wife while she is doing things with another man? My BIL is a burly testosterone fuelled type and I just can’t imagine he would stand for that unless it’s something they might have done before in a kind of threesome or he watches type of thing. I have heard rumours from acquaintances who have said that they thought they might be swingers. I’m wondering now if he is recording so that he has ammunition against her for the divorce, but why not just go for a no fault divorce?

I really don’t want to judge, I just feel awful about the whole thing and sick to my stomach that he would find it appropriate to send me these videos of my sister. Who else has he sent them to? I know of at least one other person.
I just don’t know what to think or how to react. I don’t know whether to tell my sister. Like I say I just feel shell shocked really.

OP. You should first have a word with BIL. You can say you will support them both but your first loyalty must be to your sister. Tell him it is illegal to send these videos out as it is classed as revenge porn. ( aside - do you know for sure the videos show sex?) . Tell him you wil need to inform your sister and it might be necessary to inform the police. Then have a word with your sister and tell he he has sent the videos but you have not watched. See what she wants you to do. Who else has he sent to? Trouble is, videos are now out there and could go anywhere.

Email BIL back asap and tell him not the send those videos out as it is illegal and immoral.

Has OP asked her sister why he had those videos?
Or if anything he says is true?

Assuming he is lying about their provenance doesn't sound like "keeping out of it."

And are considering reporting to police but will discuss with SIL first.

who does something like that and sends them to her sister?
Yes, interesting choice of recipient that would make me suspect he'd automatically sent the same message to multiple people, all at the same time. Might be worth casually asking anyone else whose number he might have whether they got an odd message from your BIL lately - without going into specifics obviously.

Discuss with *sister first

Why have you said you're supporting 'both' of them through this? This is going pear shaped and she is your sister, and he's sending videos? Your loyalty should be to her - you aren't going to be keeping a relationship with both of them, you're going to have to choose.
You need to tell your sister what he has said and she needs to report to the policehim sending private recordings of her without her permission and get this shut down asap.
She may know about the recordings but they would have been for private use, or he may have recorded her without her knowledge. Either way his behaviour is out of order and she needs to know asap.
He sounds awful.

'OP. You should first have a word with BIL.'

No you bloody shouldn't. His behaviour is way out of line- do not get sucked in to this.

@famousforwrongreason

Where are you hearing the swinger rumours from? How come you never told her people are talking about her?

The swinging rumours were heard by my DH who has some acquaintances in common and also my brother. My brother heard them from a relative of ours. At the time it sounded like it had been talk in a pub, both sister and BIL did socialise a lot and so I think this is how the rumours came about. I didn’t say anything to her simply because it wasn’t my business and for all I knew if it was true it might have been something consensual. As far as I know swinging and that kind of thing is more common than many of us think. BIL sending me this stuff is sick and has stepped into illegal territory. As others have said what might have been consensual at one time is not any more. If my sister has been unfaithful I’m 99% sure it is with BIL’s involvement because I really think he openly filmed her and this other man.

@RomanyBlood

He has sent this to at least one other person? How do you know?

Why on earth would you not tell your sister this? Of course you must.

And the PP is right: this is revenge porn, and illegal. He needs to be swapped.

SO WHAT if they did threesomes or whatever, plenty of people do, no need to judge.

What is not acceptable is what your BIL is doing.

Cop on fast and protect your sister.

However. Really???

He has showed a video to someone else which I found out only this week. I’m not judging I only care about my sister now and her welfare. What he has done is unacceptable.

@ravenmum

who does something like that and sends them to her sister? Yes, interesting choice of recipient that would make me suspect he'd automatically sent the same message to multiple people, all at the same time. Might be worth casually asking anyone else whose number he might have whether they got an odd message from your BIL lately - without going into specifics obviously.

Yes I was thinking that too. He’s probably sent it to other friends and family who will no doubt be just as shell shocked as the OP and not know what to do.

The fact that HE was the one to tell the Op about the divorce is very odd, when it’s her sister. I suspect this is part of a carefully constructed plan of his.

He may have been threatening or blackmailing his wife with this material in order to get her to stay in the marriage. She may not be surprised to know that he’s finally done it, although I’m sure she will be horrified and devastated.

Name changed for this for obvious reasons, as this happened to my sister too.

It's a known and documented form of coercive control/sexual abuse within marriage, called cuckolding (cuckold of course is a more general term, but in this case it refers to a specific situation where a man gets his sexual jollies from watching his wife with other men - and often emotionally coerces his wife into these relationships, though sometimes he may simply con her into it by saying he's into polyamory and wants to open up the marriage).

In my sister's case it all blew up because it transpired one of their children probably wasn't his, but was the result of one of these cuckolding episodes. (My ex BIL was also physically abusive to my sister).

I think I'd take legal advice to see if this counts as revenge porn. I think it almost certainly does, but I am not a lawyer. With a good enough lawyer, I would have thought that the mere fact that he has sent this to a third party - you - would mean that your sister now has enough leverage that could exert pressure to get a fair divorce done and dusted within two years.

Whether she'll be in a place, psychologically, where she can do this is another matter. It took my sister 20 years to break free of the bastard, then he refused to divorce by mutual consent so she was left hanging for the full 5 years.

Just a small point, but if swinging took place with the support and encouragement and participation of her DH then she has not been unfaithful.

@KeepingPlain yes because a couple of women laughing about dick size is definitely the same as putting a video of a woman having sex on a public website for other men to hate-wank to, somewhere it will be shared forever and impossible to ever take back.
Were you actually thinking when you spouted this utter shite?

"It does happen but in different ways" is a meaningless statement. If it's in a different way then it's by definition not the same.
And similarly if a woman called her ex's brother to laugh about his small dick with him, that'd be fucking weird and deeply inappropriate and you'd have a have a hard time finding any mumsnetter who thought differently.

@MySisToo I'm sorry that happened to your poor sister. What a fucking shitshow.

Are you going to tell your sister? I wonder who else he’s sent these videos to?

First having word with BIL telling him about illegality and intention to report might stop anymore being sent out.

Tell your sister

FFS does there have to be whataboutery every bloody where?

Here we have (taking post at face value) an actual person faced with an actual very bad situation re her sister and instead of simply focusing on that, we get treated to yet another sodding episode of what about the menz. The longest running show in the fucking world.

You know what? What about them? What about some hypothetical man in no way involved in this particular situation? Why do we always have to get yeahbutmen...?

Op, I bet he's sent the same to everyone he thinks would support her. You need to have that very awkward conversation with her asap.

Oh yeah and, er, if she was a man, something something men feelings double standards whataboutwhatabout something something penis.

In any case reply and tell him he should on no account send such videos out. Illegal and immoral. By not replying it might look as though you are happy to have received them. When all this comes out your sister will want to know you supported her straight away and tried to put a stop to it straight away. And then you have to tell sister.

@LittleEsme

I think it's quite telling that you stated that he has no relationship with his daughters, and that the daughter is actually helping her Mum seek a divorce. Isn't this an indication that there's an imbalance here? Why would your nieces support your DSis if BIL was the wronged party here?

Either way, your loyalties must lie with your DSis. I can't think of any reason why he has sent her sister these videos. No honourable bloke would dream of this. His motives are all wrong.

BIL has definitely changed in the past 5 years. He was so close to their daughter’s before then he had a disagreement with one that could have been sorted out with a bit of effort on both sides. But it went on too long without them speaking and then neither would back down. The other daughter tried to be the peacekeeper talking to each of them and in the end BIL stopped talking to her too. It was all so stupid and unnecessary. Since then everything has crumbled. My nieces support their mother because they never fell out with her, she had nothing to do with it and they have a good relationship with her.

Here we have (taking post at face value) an actual person faced with an actual very bad situation re her sister and instead of simply focusing on that, we get treated to yet another sodding episode of what about the menz. The longest running show in the fucking world.

This. One hundred fucking percent.

Seriously OP don’t get drawn down into the details of what went on, who was right and who was wrong in their marriage - you just need to establish how to get your DSis to emotional and physical safety ASAP.

He is v dangerous emotionally (proven by his actions of sending the video) and potentially v dangerous physically as it is at the end of RS that abuse escalates.

She sounds v fragile - but maybe she isn’t. Assess this with her and her DD to decide what to do next. After that your options are:

1. Tell her - support what she needs to do next in her own time.

1. Tell him to retract videos as it is illegal and you will tell your DSis (he won’t care, probably wants you to) or you will inform the police (this might trigger rage that your DSis is the recipient of, your DSis might be angry with YOU)

1. Don’t mention it but focus on keeping your DSis safe. Speak with police / DV / revenge porn experts for their advice.

Tread carefully here. You need to understand the dynamics of a trauma bond and the mind of a coerced and abused person. It’s v complex, sometimes seemingly irrational and v fragile.

WHat the actual hell is wrong with some of the posters on here, supporting the BIL for ILLEGALLY spreading revenge porn of his wife?!?! Christ almighty that is beyond disgusting. You need to go to the police NOW, you can bet he’s also planning to send this to her employer, her children, her parents, etc. with the intention of humiliating her. The police need to be involved NOW bad sister needs to be warned. Police will rightly take this extremely seriously, he’s been a sick fuck. And sorry but him having a mental breakdown would be no excuse for this, is she just supposed to be ok with being abused and humiliated?

Thanks @msflibble

@Pineapplesandflamingoes I think PP are right - you have to tell your sister as soon as possible. Be led by her, but I think she should seriously consider getting the police involved at this point.

But beware (I speak from personal experience, as I said) - your sister will be a mess of conflicting emotions - anger, shame, residual loyalty to him, worries about what her daughters will think. She will also (if I'm right about the coercive control element, and I'd put good money on it) have her self confidence and self belief in absolute shreds because he will totally have done a number on her.

So she may well not react to this in a rational way (who would?) Nonetheless I think you have to tell her.