Shell shocked by what BIL has texted me

[Pineapplesandflamingoes]

This is a weird one I know. I am a regular mumsnetter and recently changed my username but this is genuine. I have only changed a couple of details about the family set up just in case it could be outing but otherwise this is what has happened.

I’m shell shocked because a week ago my BIL texted me to say he is divorcing my sister because he couldn’t take any more. The marriage has become completely toxic over the years and they have largely been living separate lives in the same house. I knew this was coming due to my sister telling me how bad things were and also my grown up nieces.

Just to give some background, they have been together for over 30 years and for at least 25 of those years they seemed happy and content. Nearly always together unless they were working and focusing on their family. I never had any clue anything could be wrong but of course that is often the case.

I replied to say I’m sorry to hear about the divorce but I think it is for the best so they can both move on and find happiness. I said try not to be bitter about it as it doesn’t help matters and to think of his mental heath. (I know he isn’t in a good place mentally).

Shortly after I sent that reply he went on to say that my sister had been bringing men back to the house and she had done it again recently and that was why he couldn’t take any more. He attached 2 video’s, I didn’t watch them but could see from the picture on each video that it was my sister with a man and one of them showed she was half dressed. I’ve deleted them and told him this and said I don’t want to be in the middle of this and want to support them both through the divorce.

I really believe that there is much more to all this than first impressions which I admit don’t look good. But how many husband’s do you know would sit in their home and video his wife while she is doing things with another man? My BIL is a burly testosterone fuelled type and I just can’t imagine he would stand for that unless it’s something they might have done before in a kind of threesome or he watches type of thing. I have heard rumours from acquaintances who have said that they thought they might be swingers. I’m wondering now if he is recording so that he has ammunition against her for the divorce, but why not just go for a no fault divorce?

I really don’t want to judge, I just feel awful about the whole thing and sick to my stomach that he would find it appropriate to send me these videos of my sister. Who else has he sent them to? I know of at least one other person.
I just don’t know what to think or how to react. I don’t know whether to tell my sister. Like I say I just feel shell shocked really.

So tired of the "change the sexes" BS.
The whole point is that the sexes aren't changed are they?? Revenge porn sites are used by men, to shame women, and instances of the reverse are vanishingly rare. Stop ignoring incredibly obvious and entrenched sexist social dynamics to make a non-point excusing completely unacceptable behaviour.

And oh btw any female poster who sent a video of her ex shagging another woman to his brother would get her arse handed to her on MN. Stop talking nonsense.

I’ve never seen anyone on this site suggest you need proof of cheating. Quite the opposite. I can’t think of a situation when proof is needed.

Why wouldn't proof be needed? Is the judge just supposed to take one person's side and agree with them, with no evidence?

I think it's quite telling that you stated that he has no relationship with his daughters, and that the daughter is actually helping her Mum seek a divorce. Isn't this an indication that there's an imbalance here? Why would your nieces support your DSis if BIL was the wronged party here?

Either way, your loyalties must lie with your DSis. I can't think of any reason why he has sent her sister these videos. No honourable bloke would dream of this. His motives are all wrong.

@msflibble 100% agree.

Another thing OP, it's not just her he has violated, he has wronged you too, I imagine I would feel sick and violated if I was sent a video like this of my sister.

So tired of the "change the sexes" BS.
The whole point is that the sexes aren't changed are they?? Revenge porn sites are used by men, to shame women, and instances of the reverse are vanishingly rare. Stop ignoring incredibly obvious and entrenched sexist social dynamics to make a non-point excusing completely unacceptable behaviour.

Yes you never hear of any woman making fun of a man's penis size to her friends after he's annoyed her/cheated/dumped her. That never happens and has definitely not happened for decades, nor has the sharing of photos of him making fun of him.

It does happen, just in different ways. Men have just been extra stupid and gone on the internet where it can be easily traced.

KeepingPlain

How is any of this helpful to the OP's situation? If you think a woman taking the piss out of a blokes' penis size after a break up is nasty, can you not appreciate that this situation is fucking abhorrent?

What he's done is illegal - sending you (and others?) those videos, possibly also the filming without your DS consent.

Your sister needs to know asap adlnd she needs your support to get out or get him out. Clearly they can't keep living in the same house.

Yes, you should involve the police.

My first thought was that he was gathering evidence, (Which is what mn usually advised women in this situation to do).

Why wouldn't proof be needed? Is the judge just supposed to take one person's side and agree with them, with no evidence?

That assumes a. he needs to divorce her for adultery and b. that she would contest the divorce if he did.

There are other less antagonistic ways to divorce, such as unreasonable behaviour, separation, and hopefully soon no fault.

He has nothing to gain in a divorce from proving adultery, apart from a sense of self-righteousness. It has no effect on settlements.

@category12

I can’t think of a situation when proof is needed.

You often find that someone is desperate to prove infidelity, because they're being gaslighted and feel they're going bonkers. But that does not entail sending anything to the in-laws. And I always recommend that if the trust has gone, then it really doesn't matter, it's done. Policing and checking up on your partner means it's fucked.

No one sensible would condone sending the proof to other parties, particularly the in-laws.

Precisely. Proof isn’t needed and I don’t have ever seen any one of MN say it is. I’ve seen plenty of people say if your not happy then just leave that’s enough.

I know you say you're worried about being involved but you're now. Please stand up for your sister. This screams abusive to me. I mean why on earth would he do that unless he was trying to destroy her support network. Why else would he send it. He's hoping you'd be all "ah no poor you, I feel so sorry for you, my sister is out of order".
Please tell her soon before he starts sending it to many more people.

To the posters arguing that "he's gathering proof", what decent person sends not just one, but two videos to his Sister in law?

MandosHatHair

If you read my first post, I don't agree with what he's done. He definitely shouldn't have sent those videos to his wife's sister. His solicitor, yes, if he wants to file for adultery. But not his sil. He has broken the law there.

I was arguing the point that what he's done is exactly what others tell women to do, get evidence. Texts, call logs, pictures etc. We tell them to do that, he's done the same thing, why is that different?

You can't also then start claiming that what he has done in sending the videos to his sil is worse than what women do to men, as I said above. It is the same, both are nasty, both are embarrassing people, neither should be done. But don't try and claim women are high and mighty, we most certainly are not.

BIL has filmed his wife presumably without her consent and sent the videos on. As they have been living separate lives entirely possible they had agreed they could see other people.

BIL has fallen out with various friends of his and no longer has a relationship with his daughters with at least one of them actively encouraging her mother to leave.

Additionally he wanted his wife’s sister to watch videos of her sister having sex with another man. He wanted to humiliate his wife and try to turn her sister against her by having him being the wronged party by his wife cheating.

You need to speak to your sister and possibly report him to the police depending on your sister’s view. Your sister will need a lot of support from you; he seems vile.

Sending Revenge porn is obviously objectively worse than laughing amongst mates about dick size and performance.

One more thought. You say a DD is encouraging her mum to leave, telling in itself, so probably your sister is the one to instigate the divorce. Is it possible BIL doesn’t want a divorce and is using the video to ensure your sister stays put. Not saying it is the case but it just crossed my mind.

Your sister's MH will be in a worse place if he carries on sending out videos to people without her knowing. You need to tell her immediately, face to face, at your house rather than her house if possible just in case it is a huge shock for her. Hope it goes ok for her.

I was arguing the point that what he's done is exactly what others tell women to do, get evidence. Texts, call logs, pictures etc. We tell them to do that, he's done the same thing, why is that different?

It's very different because he has sent the videos to her immediate family! I have never seen anyone reccomend an OP sends revenge porn.

You cannot possibly say that someone saying thier ex has a small penis is the same as someone sending two videos of someone having sex to thier immediate relatives. It's no way near the same situation.

No woman has ever been advised on MN to secretly film her partner having sex and then share the video. Ignore the misogynists trying to pretend otherwise. Regardless of their opinions, the law is quite clear about revenge porn and your DSIS' solicitor will know how to proceed.

It's very different because he has sent the videos to her immediate family! I have never seen anyone reccomend an OP sends revenge porn.

And I said above that paragraph you quoted that he shouldn't have done that and it was illegal?

A woman sending a picture of her partners/exs penis to her friends and laughing about it is revenge porn, or showing them it. That's the point I'm making, and there's plenty women out there that do that. What he's done is the same thing. It's not right in the slightest. He should never have sent it to his sil.

I was arguing the point that what he's done is exactly what others tell women to do, get evidence.

Struggling to recall any woman being advised to film their partner in the act and send it to his family along with lobbying mails. We also don't know what was going on inside the marriage - could be adultery, could be her being coerced into complying at his behest.

All this talk of "if it was the other way around" also assumes a fundamental equality between the sexes which doesn't exist.

there's plenty women out there that do that

Really? Which survey/research do you base that on?

Yes the poor men, their poor little man brains forcing them to use revenge porn, they really are the victims in this.

Some of you seem to be struggling to tell the difference between a man committing a criminal offence and a woman saying something nasty.

I wonder why that is ?

I wonder why several posters are so invested in defending this man who has broken the law ? Is it because you or your partner have done something similar yourselves ?

Or because you think that people who consensually take part in ‘swinging ‘ don’t deserve the protection of the law the same as everyone else ?

Or just plain old misogyny - women are scum and men should be free to treat then how they like?

His first betrayal was texting you informing of the divorce - that manipulative was not his place.

Beyond that it the relationship sounds v nasty, messy, toxic and dysfunctional potentially abusive and coercive. This is likely the tip of the iceberg. You need to get her out slowly and safely which will require strategic moves.

I understand that your DSis is v mentally fragile and this should be your first concern.

I wonder how much the DD knows - you could offer her your support and gauge what’s the lay of the land.

He sounds like a nasty nasty man - your DSis may have been coerced, forced or consented to sex and filming. None of us know. But she sounds fragile so this situation needs delicate handling.