The letter from my Son's Mum has arrived.

[malgrat78]

As some of you maybe aware I have been having an ongoing issue with my Son's Mum who was in a relationship with a drug addict & she was also using. My Son has been living with me for some months now & his Mum has now moved away & trying to get back in contact with him. However, my Son doesn't want any contact which he reconfirmed again last night when he wanted to discuss something with me. His Mum has wrote a letter to him which has come this morning.

I am not sure what to think about it. She does open by saying she hope he is ok & I hope you love been with your Dad & doing well at school. She goes on to say that she is staying with her Mum & she is on the council list & should have her own flat within 12 months.

What I am not too sure about is the next bit. It basically says “I hope that in time you can forgive me for all the trouble I caused, I do regret it. I know you won’t ever come back to live with me, I understand all that but in time I hope I can talk to you” Then the normal I love you lots & lots.

I think her mother may have helped with the context of the letter to be honest. I am a bit uncertain what to think about it especially the forgiveness bit. Should she be mentioning this to a 13-year-old after only been away just over 2 weeks? Surely if he see's this letter & the forgiveness bit he is going to feel pressurized into forgiving her. The destruction she has caused & heartache is not going to be solved in 2 weeks & with a letter. I personally would have centered the letter around my Son & how he was doing & not mentioned anything about forgiveness or my wants.

His mum did message me this morning to see if I had received it which was the 3rd time in 3 days that she has asked. My Son picked the letter up & luckily it was in my name but her writing so I am surprised that he never mentioned it to be honest.

What are people thoughts?

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation

So sorry to hear about your dad OP. You have such a lot on your plate already.

I would just stick the gift away with the letter right now. Just mentally shelve the whole issue until after your dad has passed and things are a bit calmer.

Be very careful around your sons sister. It sounds like the mum has "recruited" her and may try to use her to engineer contact with your son. Does he know that his mum ended up staying there (is she still there?) It might be necessary to ask the sister to drop anything off while your son is out, in case she turns up with mum in tow.

Please try not to think too badly of the sister if this happens. It's very hard for a child to resist a parent's emotional Blackmail and manipulation. Your son is lucky to have you as a rational and supportive voice - unfortunately his sister doesn't have that.

I hope you can have a calm Christmas for the three of you.

Thank you & i must admit it has been a difficult year but it shall pass.

His big sister my Step Daughter has been wonderful through this but I am mindful that she does gravitate towards helping her Mum at times & hoping she as changed which I do expect. However, I have had a good conversation with her just to explain how important it is that her Brother has myself & her as stable & trusting people in his life. I also said that she isn't responsible for her mum & our main priority is to look out for her Brother as he is the child in all of this. His Sister is in her late 20's now & did say that if she ever has Children she will not let her Mum around them because her morals are horrible.

I am going to mention the message from her mum & tell her not to drop anything off here without my permission & I am sure she will understand.

I do understand my Son's Sister position & she does understand where I am coming from & generally backs me up but I have learned to be a little weary & mindful.

@iwanttoridemybicycleiwant

Put them away with the letter in the loft/box/wherever for now, and concentrate on your Dad and son.

Assuming your son and his Grandad do get on, I'd focus on the three of you making the most of what precious time you have left.

Put his mum on the back burner meanwhile. You definitely don't need the upheaval right now, not that you needed it before.

You can be as polite and non committal to everyone else as you can bring yourself to be. Good luck. (There are some very helpful people on the Elderly Parents board if you want advice about helping your Dad btw).

Totally agree with all of this.

You have so much on (I'm so sorry about your dad ) and she is not your burden or your son's burden to bear.

Her having contact with your son when he has explicitly said he wants no contact could be hugely damaging. I know that sounds simplistic but the reason I say it is to replace the word contact with any interaction or communication at all, including gifts and cards.

He wants NO contact with his mum. So he does not want letters, gifts, cards, messages through other people etc.

You've done such a brilliant job respecting that and you must continue to do it. Stash stuff in the loft if you don't want the headache of refusing it from her.

But show him he is listened to and believed by continuing to 100% support the boundaries he has asked you to protect.

You sound lovely and so does your boy - I'm so sorry he's been let down by his mum forever but thank goodness he has you.

A tip from a social worker who deals with contact issues a lot - ideally arrange for presents to be dropped off at a neutral location so she's not coming to the house, if not possible then explain that if she's bringing presents in person it can only be during school hours when he's not there. Make it clear that he's still not seeking contact, including indirect (ie letters/gifts) and that you'll make him aware you've got them, but he might not open them and for that reason they need to be small gifts that can be stored for the future when/if he's ready if necessary.
It's really common for parents who don't have relationships with their children to suddenly go OTT at Christmas and birthdays to make up for it.

@Aroaringfire

A tip from a social worker who deals with contact issues a lot - ideally arrange for presents to be dropped off at a neutral location so she's not coming to the house, if not possible then explain that if she's bringing presents in person it can only be during school hours when he's not there. Make it clear that he's still not seeking contact, including indirect (ie letters/gifts) and that you'll make him aware you've got them, but he might not open them and for that reason they need to be small gifts that can be stored for the future when/if he's ready if necessary. It's really common for parents who don't have relationships with their children to suddenly go OTT at Christmas and birthdays to make up for it.

Thank you for this & great advice :)

I have read both threads but not posted before. I know what I am going to say will sound harsh, and I mean it in the best way possible - harsh replies seem to have really made you think and take stuff on board before.

WHY are you STILL treating every contact from your DSs mum as a new puzzle to be solved? YOU KNOW your son feels suicidal at the thought of any contact. When will you truly get that? When he tries?

Whether it's a letter, gifts or whatever, you need to view all contact in the same way - UNWANTED BY YOUR VERY VULNERABLE AND DAMAGED SON.

Why in the world you haven't changed your number so his mum can't contact you, God only knows. Why in the world you are SO focused on all the ins and outs of her chaotic life, God only knows.

This woman is a total mess. The extent of the mess is really irrelevant. Even if she was in recovery and doing really well, YOUR SON DOESN'T WANT CONTACT. Why are you umming and aahing over this point every time?

Using his older sister for childcare was always going to be a disaster if she is in contact with her mother. How can your son possibly stay safe from the upset of even hearing about his mother, if he spends time with his older sister who speaks to her?

This is getting beyond a joke now, and your wishy washy approach will harm your son. You DON'T need to have contact with his mother. You DONT need to use your ex stepdaughter for childcare for a 13 year old. You DONT accept gifts for your son. And you DON'T focus on this woman's chaotic life, which is irrelevant as your son wants NO CONTACT WITH HER.

You need to cut these people out of your lives, and only enter into contact if advised by the court. STOP focusing on the minutae of what is going on, and get with the overriding theme: YOUR SON REJECTS HIS MOTHER TO PROTECT HIMSELF FROM SUICIDE.

I am So so sorry about your dad, but you really need to focus on what matters here. Your dad and son. No-one else.

Change your numbers and email address for God's sake!

Copy the letter.

Give the original to your foster (?) son. In its envelope. Or put it on his desk. And tell him it's from its mum.
Then the choice is his'! If he decides to chuck it and months from now regrets it; you will still have the copy

Never ever hide anything from him from his mum. Give him the choice.or he might find out one day that you kept important things from him and will not trust you anymore, or worse: starts to resent you for it.

Oh, and it's not up to you to tell your sons sister what to do regarding contact with her mother. Her brother is NOT her responsibility, he is yours. She is NOT his parent, and is totally free to have any relationship with her mother that she wants. I think she is bonkers if she wants one, but it's HER choice.

It's TOTALLY unfair to expect your sons sister to take sides and amend her behaviour to protect your son. That's YOUR job. So do it!

I have read both threads but not posted before. I know what I am going to say will sound harsh, and I mean it in the best way possible - harsh replies seem to have really made you think and take stuff on board before.

WHY are you STILL treating every contact from your DSs mum as a new puzzle to be solved? YOU KNOW your son feels suicidal at the thought of any contact. When will you truly get that? When he tries?

Whether it's a letter, gifts or whatever, you need to view all contact in the same way - UNWANTED BY YOUR VERY VULNERABLE AND DAMAGED SON.

I agree with this, and with the rest of @SirChing's post -- you are still overly concerned for the feelings of people who are completely irrelevant in ways that are harmful to your son. I was surprised by how upsetting I've found this whole thread, and realised it's because the way you're being so wishy-washy about this, and appearing at times to be as concerned for your son's mother as you are for him reminds me of my own mother, who simply didn't do anywhere near enough to defend me from dangerous adults when I was a child.

Your son has been, and is still being, extremely clear about the fact that he wants nothing to do with her, no mention of her, nothing from her your job is to make that happen, and to stop tiptoeing around other people's irrelevant sensibilities. There's way too much shilly-shallying about other people 'understanding' and 'permission' be a rock on this issue.

I'm so sorry about your dad. But I think that means you need to give your son's mother even less head space as you negotiate a very tough time for you and your son.

What is your support worker/social worker advising?

@SirChing

I have read both threads but not posted before. I know what I am going to say will sound harsh, and I mean it in the best way possible - harsh replies seem to have really made you think and take stuff on board before.

WHY are you STILL treating every contact from your DSs mum as a new puzzle to be solved? YOU KNOW your son feels suicidal at the thought of any contact. When will you truly get that? When he tries?

Whether it's a letter, gifts or whatever, you need to view all contact in the same way - UNWANTED BY YOUR VERY VULNERABLE AND DAMAGED SON.

Why in the world you haven't changed your number so his mum can't contact you, God only knows. Why in the world you are SO focused on all the ins and outs of her chaotic life, God only knows.

This woman is a total mess. The extent of the mess is really irrelevant. Even if she was in recovery and doing really well, YOUR SON DOESN'T WANT CONTACT. Why are you umming and aahing over this point every time?

Using his older sister for childcare was always going to be a disaster if she is in contact with her mother. How can your son possibly stay safe from the upset of even hearing about his mother, if he spends time with his older sister who speaks to her?

This is getting beyond a joke now, and your wishy washy approach will harm your son. You DON'T need to have contact with his mother. You DONT need to use your ex stepdaughter for childcare for a 13 year old. You DONT accept gifts for your son. And you DON'T focus on this woman's chaotic life, which is irrelevant as your son wants NO CONTACT WITH HER.

You need to cut these people out of your lives, and only enter into contact if advised by the court. STOP focusing on the minutae of what is going on, and get with the overriding theme: YOUR SON REJECTS HIS MOTHER TO PROTECT HIMSELF FROM SUICIDE.

I am So so sorry about your dad, but you really need to focus on what matters here. Your dad and son. No-one else.

Change your numbers and email address for God's sake!

Thank you & you are totally right in everything you say. As you can probably gather from my previous posts I try to please everyone even people who probably don't deserve it. I struggle with knowing what to do for the best. I spent most of my childhood trying to fix my parents toxic relationship with each other & that has shaped my adult relationships. However, so far with the help & support of friends / family & people like yourself on here I have managed to navigate these difficult times & I hope protected my Son to some degree.

I did message his Mum last night & basically said he wants no contact which means no texts, phone calls, letters, cards & presents. I waited for a reply but as of yet I have not got one & when / if I do it will be something along the lines of I am not discussing this any further now & if you are not happy with the situation then please seek legal advice.

I really am getting fed up with this now especially given the situation with my Dad & I will get to the point where enough is enough.

@SoWhatNo

What is your support worker/social worker advising?

Social services closed the case months ago. I am awaiting counselling for my Son which stopped when the pandemic started. I have had a free consultation with a solicitor who said I am legally ok & if his Mum want anything else she needs to seek legal advice. I am also in contact with NSPCC who have advised me to support my Son's wishes but they did say that I should be aware that withholding things from him such as cards, letters etc could possibly harm our relationship in future if he was to find out. Other than that I di not have any kind of support / social worker.

@Nore

I have read both threads but not posted before. I know what I am going to say will sound harsh, and I mean it in the best way possible - harsh replies seem to have really made you think and take stuff on board before.

WHY are you STILL treating every contact from your DSs mum as a new puzzle to be solved? YOU KNOW your son feels suicidal at the thought of any contact. When will you truly get that? When he tries?

Whether it's a letter, gifts or whatever, you need to view all contact in the same way - UNWANTED BY YOUR VERY VULNERABLE AND DAMAGED SON.

I agree with this, and with the rest of @SirChing's post -- you are still overly concerned for the feelings of people who are completely irrelevant in ways that are harmful to your son. I was surprised by how upsetting I've found this whole thread, and realised it's because the way you're being so wishy-washy about this, and appearing at times to be as concerned for your son's mother as you are for him reminds me of my own mother, who simply didn't do anywhere near enough to defend me from dangerous adults when I was a child.

Your son has been, and is still being, extremely clear about the fact that he wants nothing to do with her, no mention of her, nothing from her your job is to make that happen, and to stop tiptoeing around other people's irrelevant sensibilities. There's way too much shilly-shallying about other people 'understanding' and 'permission' be a rock on this issue.

I'm so sorry about your dad. But I think that means you need to give your son's mother even less head space as you negotiate a very tough time for you and your son.

Yes I agree about the wishy-washy. That is the whole reason I post on here because as you can see I appear to give to much concern for people who I shouldn't be. I find it difficult to know what to do for the best. I know my Son very well & we have a very open / honest relationship & this is why I find it difficult as to whether he should know that his Mum as been trying to contact him with cards & letters. He has said in the past that he doesn't want to talk about his mum & no contact but would like to know of any major developments. I am afraid that 5 years down the line he will find out about the cards / letters etc & then our relationship / trust could possibly be ruined.

I'm on the fence with this one. My previous advice has been to do what protects your son, and that to me seems as little contact as possible for now.

However, this is Christmas and he will more than likely be half expecting her to make contact. I think you should as him, just once, what he wants to do if she sends a card and present. Let him know he can change his mind too.

Good luck, I'm sorry you are having such a tough time.

Sometimes, being an adult and a parent is about NOT being honest and open. You seem to be more worried about how your son may perceive you in the future, than respecting his wishes NOW.

This poor kid feels suicidal at the thought of contact with his mother. Has told you REPEATEDLY that he wants no contact or discussion about her. But you are worrying about how YOU may be perceived by people. Honestly? You will be perceived very badly if your son completes suicide because you failed him.

You have to get a grip here, and decide what's more important: other people's feelings (including your own) or your son.

Thinking of others too much, doesn't make you a "nice guy". I am afraid to say that it makes you an ineffectual parent to a son who deserves so much more than this half arsed, "please like me everyone", fannying around that his dad is doing.

In the nicest way possible, man the fuck up, and be the parent your child needs. It sucks what you were exposed to as a kid. So get help for that. But you are hiding behind it as an excuse to put your need to be liked over your sons well-being. And every time you do that, you have failed.

I am genuinely sorry to be so harsh, but nothing else seems to work with you. Initially I felt sad that your son has the mother he has. Now I feel sorry that he has the father he has too. Is that what you want? Step up FFS!

oh and the "I really am getting fed up with this now" comment - you should have been fed up with it months ago. In the nicest possible way, stop being so bloody wet!

@Disfordarkchocolate

I'm on the fence with this one. My previous advice has been to do what protects your son, and that to me seems as little contact as possible for now.

However, this is Christmas and he will more than likely be half expecting her to make contact. I think you should as him, just once, what he wants to do if she sends a card and present. Let him know he can change his mind too.

Good luck, I'm sorry you are having such a tough time.

He knows she will make contact as she does around special occasions & I do not want to jeopardize our trusting relationship by withholding things from him. However, I obviously have to support his wishes of no contact but as I said in a previous comment he did say he would like to know of any major events. I have 2 options. I basically do not tell him anything & risk him finding out then never trusting the one person he is supposed to trust or I ask him what he would like me to do if his mum sends him a card / present. I could mention that if he wants I can keep hold of anything for future if he wishes to see it at a later date. I can read the card etc & decide whether it would be appropriate for him to see. I just don't want to risk damaging the trust we have. He only as me & he as lost all trust in his Mum through all of this. I understand that I need to protect him but I also think that at the same time I need to show him that he can trust people & he is listened to.

@SirChing

Sometimes, being an adult and a parent is about NOT being honest and open. You seem to be more worried about how your son may perceive you in the future, than respecting his wishes NOW.

This poor kid feels suicidal at the thought of contact with his mother. Has told you REPEATEDLY that he wants no contact or discussion about her. But you are worrying about how YOU may be perceived by people. Honestly? You will be perceived very badly if your son completes suicide because you failed him.

You have to get a grip here, and decide what's more important: other people's feelings (including your own) or your son.

Thinking of others too much, doesn't make you a "nice guy". I am afraid to say that it makes you an ineffectual parent to a son who deserves so much more than this half arsed, "please like me everyone", fannying around that his dad is doing.

In the nicest way possible, man the fuck up, and be the parent your child needs. It sucks what you were exposed to as a kid. So get help for that. But you are hiding behind it as an excuse to put your need to be liked over your sons well-being. And every time you do that, you have failed.

I am genuinely sorry to be so harsh, but nothing else seems to work with you. Initially I felt sad that your son has the mother he has. Now I feel sorry that he has the father he has too. Is that what you want? Step up FFS!

I did respect your comments but I am afraid I feel you have gone a bit too far this time. My Father is terminally ill & maybe has a few weeks left if that & I am trying my best to do the right thing & your comments have gone from productive to down right nasty. Thank you.

@malgrat78 Sorry, my comments were a bit too strong and they did sound nasty. My absolute apologies for being too harsh.

I DO stick to the sentiment behind the comments, but got carried away in "tough love". Sorry about that and all the best to you both

We have a similar situation with my nephew (not drug related but mental health and refusal to keep taking them).

After many years of the courts and being let down by her failure to show up at contact sessions. So this was stopped by the courts.

She sent letters, emails etc my nephew doesn't want to know but he is always given the option (he's now 14 he decided zero information from 11). The letter or printed email is then kept for him in a box in case at any point in time he does decide he wants to read them or changes his mind.
So far he hasn't.

I think to avoid the issue of resentment it's best to offer but state he doesn't have to and equally there isn't an issue if he does want to as well (he may feel if he says yes he's letting you down etc)

[quote SirChing]@malgrat78 Sorry, my comments were a bit too strong and they did sound nasty. My absolute apologies for being too harsh.

I DO stick to the sentiment behind the comments, but got carried away in "tough love". Sorry about that and all the best to you both [/quote]
Thank you. As I say I do agree with you & i do respond to harsh replies best. However, I do believe so far I have done me best given the circumstances. I have got him away from the toxic environment & he thanks me every night before bed for what I have done for him & I find that difficult in itself as it's my job as a father to do what I have done. Also, as much as it appears that I maybe giving his mum too much contact etc there is a lot of things that have gone on that I have bot mentioned on here that I have shielded him from.

I do wish I was stronger & didn't have to ask for advice on here but some of us were not brought up the same way with the same life skills but I do see I need help which I guess is the main thing. Anyway thank you for your advice.

@Scottishskifun

We have a similar situation with my nephew (not drug related but mental health and refusal to keep taking them).

After many years of the courts and being let down by her failure to show up at contact sessions. So this was stopped by the courts.

She sent letters, emails etc my nephew doesn't want to know but he is always given the option (he's now 14 he decided zero information from 11). The letter or printed email is then kept for him in a box in case at any point in time he does decide he wants to read them or changes his mind.
So far he hasn't.

I think to avoid the issue of resentment it's best to offer but state he doesn't have to and equally there isn't an issue if he does want to as well (he may feel if he says yes he's letting you down etc)

In a previous comment @SirChing stated that it appeared I was more bothered about what my son thinks of me if I so not tell him about the letter / cards & he finds out. That isn't the case at all! What I am concerned about is the possible loss of trust that we have & honestly if he finds out.

But what about the loss of trust he may have if you don't respect his wishes to not even speak of his mum? He can't then trust you to respect his wishes (in his eyes).

Can't you wait for him to ask if she has made contact, and be honest at that point?

I guess I mean, there is more than one type of trust. Our kids trust us to keep them emotionally safe. And doing something we know makes them feel bad, unprompted by them, is also breaking trust, every bit as much as if you lied to him.

Sometimes we have to take on the burden of guilt of NOT being 100% upfront with our kids - we take that burden to save them from the burden of the truth. If we dump that burden onto them, so we can tell ourselves we were honest, that IS putting our own feelings before theirs.

If he asks if his mum has contacted then I am NOT saying you should lie. I just think that offering the information to him, when he has said he doesn't want it, is taking the burden off you and placing it on him. If that makes sense?

@SirChing

But what about the loss of trust he may have if you don't respect his wishes to not even speak of his mum? He can't then trust you to respect his wishes (in his eyes).

Can't you wait for him to ask if she has made contact, and be honest at that point?

This is the issue I am having with not knowing which way to go. I think your suggestion could be a viable one actually. Then I am respecting his wishes but then I have the opportunity to be honest with him if he asks. I can just keep what ever she sends in a box in the loft. He doesn't like speaking about her so I don't normally bring her up so it would be up to him if he wanted to ask the question.

@SirChing

I guess I mean, there is more than one type of trust. Our kids trust us to keep them emotionally safe. And doing something we know makes them feel bad, unprompted by them, is also breaking trust, every bit as much as if you lied to him.

Sometimes we have to take on the burden of guilt of NOT being 100% upfront with our kids - we take that burden to save them from the burden of the truth. If we dump that burden onto them, so we can tell ourselves we were honest, that IS putting our own feelings before theirs.

If he asks if his mum has contacted then I am NOT saying you should lie. I just think that offering the information to him, when he has said he doesn't want it, is taking the burden off you and placing it on him. If that makes sense?

Yeah I know exactly what you mean & sometimes we have to keep things from our children because we know what is the best for them. There are a lot of things that I haven't told him that he would probably like to know or thinks that he should know but I had to keep it from him as I knew it would do him harm.

Yes it does make sense & his mum did this with her ex boyfriend. She would ask my Son whether he wanted her to chuck him out which I found totally unacceptable & putting a massive amount of burden on my Son's shoulders. He obviously said no because he didn't want that responsibility but his Mum wanted the easy way out & be able to say that my Son wanted her partner to tay in the home.