Advice to all young women

[Kittytheteapot]

It doesn't matter how much you love him. It doesn't matter how lovely he is, how helpful, how understanding, how much of a feminist he is. It doesn't matter how equal you are. It doesn't matter if you would move heaven and earth to be with him.

Always maintain a degree of independence. Have some money that is yours and yours alone. Maintain friendships and interests that are nothing to do with him. Hold on to your career through thick and thin. If you have a burning desire to be a SAHM or if childcare costs would eat up your entire earnings and therefore you feel being a SAHM is the only option open to you, know this: holding on to your career is still more important. Go part time if you want to spend more time with your child, let childcare costs eat up your earnings. It is better to keep one foot in the door than to let it shut behind you. Keep being you, even if you think you are happy and fulfilled as a mommy.

Because you never know. One day in the far distant future, that lovely man you fell head over heels for might just turn out to not be the Prince you think he is. And if that day comes, you don't want to have spent the last 30 years dependent on him for everything. You don't want to be without a career or any means of getting one. You don't want to have nowhere to go. You don't want to be floundering about trying to remember who you were when you were young and independent with friends and opportunities.

That's all. I expect people will heap scorn on me. I can only point out this isn't AIBU. I just wish someone had given me this advice 30 years ago and I had been sensible enough to listen and act on such advice.

DisobedientHamster, I like the cut of your dad's jib! He sounds like a really loving husband and father.

This advice, while well intentioned, is not the only way to protect yourself from your once lovely DH turning into a bastard.

The most successful SAHPs I know who ended up divorcing and having to go from out of work for years (one over a decade), were ones who got post graduate degrees while home with their children. You dont have to sacrifice yourself on the altar of the God of Work to ensure you can support yourself if things break down. There is the option to be studying AND home with the children instead. It’s much easier now to do this than it was for my friends as at the time, online degrees were not available.

I also don’t agree with the “always have money of your own” because that reeks of hiding away money. Having a secret bank account. I’d divorce my DH if he had secreted money away as a “running away fund”. That’s a deal breaker to me to commit to a partnership and sharing everything in one breath, but hiding money in the next.

I have also known many women who also protected themselves by marrying very well off men. The divorce courts gave them homes worth at minus half a million and incomes over €100k/yr for life, not including the money for child support. So they really were neither surprised or bothered when their DH decided to leave them for a younger woman. It freed them to find a new lover, but also to be financially independent and never have to work the rest of their lives.

Other women I know had their children while in their early 20s. It didn’t matter that they were not working until almost 30 because they left when they were at the bottom of the career ladder and just picked up where they were afterwards. Their DH leaving them would not have affected their career prospects at all. The truth is that later you wait to have children, the more you have to lose if you stop work. You fall a rung down the ladder for every 2yrs not working. If you’re out of work long enough, you’re starting at the bottom, but unlike the 27 or 28yr old with a 5 and 7yrvold, you’re 40+ with a 5 and 7 yr old. You don’t have the time that they do to build a full career back up.

This advice is geared towards women who have the PhD and have 15yrs of career built up before they have children. It’s for women who have everything to lose.

Completely agree with you, OP.

Roxfox, it is not about being afraid of a man leaving you. It is about being financially and emotionally and mentally secure in case you ever decide you want to leave him!

That with bells on, how many women end up in shit relationships they can’t afford to leave? How many feel the need to stay because they don’t want to be poor?

Yep!

also don’t agree with the “always have money of your own” because that reeks of hiding away money. Having a secret bank account. I’d divorce my DH if he had secreted money away as a “running away fund”

Me neither, can you imagine the threads- AIBU to be angry/upset as I've just found my DH has a secret account with money in just in case he wants to leave me. That said, me and DH have seperate savings, we pay equally for everything, halves for big purchases and as I earn more if he wants anything I'll sometimes put money towards it although he never asks. But if we shared an account and he had a 'secret' account I'd be annoyed. It's sensible to have separate savings but be open about it imo, maybe not mentioning why.

Having money of your own doesn’t “reek of hiding away money“. It is important to have a relationship where each one can fairly and in the open have their own savings without the other resenting them.

@PlanDeRaccordement similar to what I was trying to say. I agree
It's not a one fit all. Every woman's family is different and different individual circumstances.

I have also known many women who also protected themselves by marrying very well off men

Yikes. Don't bother Jacinda Ardern, feminism apparently peaked with Anna Nicole Smith.

@notheragain4

I have also known many women who also protected themselves by marrying very well off men

Yikes. Don't bother Jacinda Ardern, feminism apparently peaked with Anna Nicole Smith.

Feminism is not just for women to attain equality with men, but the right to choose our life paths. There is nothing unfeminist if a woman chooses to marry a well off man and protect herself financially that way. Just like it is not “unfeminist” for women to choose to do traditionally female careers- nurse, school teacher, nanny, etc.

It is unfeminist to force women into any career or any life choice.

Totally agree with your advice OP. Did anyone read the recent AIBU thread about all the women defending their choice to work part time, many of them not for childcare reasons? Quite scary that very few seemed to have given any thought to financial independence if they were on their own or their future pension provision.

I have a close friend who was stuck in an abusive marriage for years because she didn’t have the financial capability to leave him. Financial independence - and by that I mean the ability to support you and your children - is vital.

@PlanDeRaccordement

A woman could choose to marry who ever she damn well wants, if she has no skills or independence behind her she is leaving herself in a vulnerable position no matter how lawyered up she can get.

Marrying a wealthy person isn't an achievement, if that person and wealth were to disappear, let's say the man was a corrupt businessman thrown in prison, where is she left then.

There is nothing more powerful than being independent and having your own means and skills. I will never believe "marrying well", as I have so sickeningly often seen written on this forum, is a valid life choice to encourage a young woman into.

Feminism is not just for women to attain equality with men, but the right to choose our life paths.

^^Completely agree. I, also, agree that one size does not fit all. However, the world where divorce courts grant homes worth at minus half a million and incomes over €100k/yr for life is not the reality for the majority of women (and men!) on this planet so anyone in the vulnerable (lower incomed, childrearing) position needs a way out should the shit hit the fan. And, for most working class women, it won't be through getting a better paid job, a postgrad degree nor marrying up. It will be through having someone to look after the kids whilst they earn minimum wage and having immediate savings to get out of an untenable situation. It's for basic survival.

Very well said OP. I kept my career going in spite of my ex's attempts at times to sabotage me and I thank god every day that I did as he walked out on me and DD and I just had to get on with it. We can afford nice things and holidays and don't have to worry about money which is such a gift.
It paid off being married though as I could offset my claim to his pension against other assets (and I am building my own pension provision).
I was very motivated to keep my financial independence by being poor as a child and my other raising us alone after my dad walked out. My experience is very different to the one she had.

*mother

Absolutely agree OP and after my own bitter experiences, this is exactly what I have taught my DD. Excellent advice!

Marrying a wealthy person isn't an achievement,

No, but it’s a valid means to the end of raising good human beings, which IS an achievement.

There is nothing more powerful than being independent and having your own means and skills

Yes, well life isn’t about amassing power to some women.

And, for most working class women, it won't be through getting a better paid job, a postgrad degree nor marrying up. It will be through having someone to look after the kids whilst they earn minimum wage and having immediate savings to get out of an untenable situation. It's for basic survival.

Completely agree with this. Which is why OPs advice isn’t for working class women at all. A working class woman likely has no access to university, and so is stuck in minimum wage jobs whether she works her whole life or takes time off for child rearing. Rarely can a working class woman get a career and move up to middle class. That’s why most working class women have their children younger. They have nothing to lose and would rather be a young mum on benefits than wait and risk being infertile but unable to pay for IVF etc. They can’t fall behind on the career ladder because there is no career ladder. It’s jist a series of dead end jobs making minimum wage or a little more. Jobs that require no real qualifications that they can stop doing at 19 with first child and pick right back up at 29 if they need to. Those ten years not working don’t affect them, they’ve gotten the NI towards the state pension because they get child benefit. They’re not getting lower paid jobs, it’s the same wage equivalent.

I agree with every word. I wish someone had said the same to me years ago.

@DisobedientHamster

Your fathers advice is great.

OMG yes this with bells on! I wish someone had told me this 8 years ago.

It's really important to be financially independent. As many others have said here you NEVER know what is around the corner. Even if you think you do.

My life pretty much followed the OPs advice for an ideal life chapter and verse. Except I’m still happily married, so doomsday never struck. My only regret is that I did not get enough time with my children when they were young. No choice is without sacrifice. And some women just have different priorities which us their right.

I have many many friends who made different choices and their lives are not fatally screwed up because they chose differently. They have all done just fine and some are even better off than I objectively speaking.

No advice can be to “all young women” no life path is one size fits all with a guarenteed success. We have to be careful we do not too critically judge women who make different choices or have different priorities.

Well worded @PlanDeRaccordement I couldn't agree more.

Our children need to able the know it's their decision and it's not one size fits all.

If your having kids then you should really be married, a decent amount of equity in your house and a secure stable career built up, otherwise likely hood is you will have to rely on a your other half to provide and if he walks out you will be on your own financially, protect yourself with those very basic simple steps.

Not just financial independence but also some social independence and life skills. I witnessed my grandma fall apart after my grandad died. Yes, this was partly due to grief but it was also due to the fact she completely relied on him for everything other than cooking and cleaning. She couldn’t deal with bills, didn’t know how to drive, knew nothing about maintenance of anything in the house.

Also her social life had always been as couples, so once she became a widow, the social invitations dried up. Always best to keep some girlfriends who you see separately on your own.