Advice to all young women

[Kittytheteapot]

It doesn't matter how much you love him. It doesn't matter how lovely he is, how helpful, how understanding, how much of a feminist he is. It doesn't matter how equal you are. It doesn't matter if you would move heaven and earth to be with him.

Always maintain a degree of independence. Have some money that is yours and yours alone. Maintain friendships and interests that are nothing to do with him. Hold on to your career through thick and thin. If you have a burning desire to be a SAHM or if childcare costs would eat up your entire earnings and therefore you feel being a SAHM is the only option open to you, know this: holding on to your career is still more important. Go part time if you want to spend more time with your child, let childcare costs eat up your earnings. It is better to keep one foot in the door than to let it shut behind you. Keep being you, even if you think you are happy and fulfilled as a mommy.

Because you never know. One day in the far distant future, that lovely man you fell head over heels for might just turn out to not be the Prince you think he is. And if that day comes, you don't want to have spent the last 30 years dependent on him for everything. You don't want to be without a career or any means of getting one. You don't want to have nowhere to go. You don't want to be floundering about trying to remember who you were when you were young and independent with friends and opportunities.

That's all. I expect people will heap scorn on me. I can only point out this isn't AIBU. I just wish someone had given me this advice 30 years ago and I had been sensible enough to listen and act on such advice.

Surely the advice to get married should only be applicable if you earn less/have fewer assets than the man, otherwise it is bad advice?

Exactly.

I knis women who've been absolutely shafted by marrying guys who had less assets than them.

One managed to pay off the guy and stay in her home.

The other had to sell her home and is now in social housing.

Both men were abusive. One emotionally - which I doubt she ever reported (coercive control was not a crime then), the other physically.

Not sure if the latter ever reported but if she did if made no difference to the settlement.

The same applies to cheaters ..they can cheat on you and still walk away with your assets.

Do not marry if you have (or may have) greater assets.

(As for kids - they have to pay cm whether you were married or not .. they either pay it or dodge it. A d I understand spousal.maintenance to be rarely awarded now .. so unless I'm missing something why does marriage give you huge security with kids).

Alwaystalk500
Religious or 1950?!

As a man - and an IFA - I agree with every word of this - especially:
Marriage is not 'just a piece of paper' anymore than a will, a passport, title deeds or a court summons is.

There is nothing wrong in hoping your relationship will last for ever, but it's only sensible to plan as if it won't.

@IfNotNowThenWhen2 very good advice.
I have been stewing over something that happened Friday, a man would not be bothered about it, I need to let it go.

Whilst in my mid-20s at uni, I took a Women's Studies module. A very wise woman (mid-forties if relevant) said that 1) women should never give up their earning potential and 2) childrearing/looking after the home was unpaid labour, performed by mainly women and, as such, was not respected nor valued.

My mum hammered this advice to me from a very young age and I have continued to follow it. Despite being in the very privileged position to stay at home if I wanted to, I am so so glad I didn't. It has put us in a much more secure position following this virus. You can never ever predict what is going to happen!

My dad gave me the best advice ever: Love is respect and it starts with you. If YOU don't love yourself first, respect yourself - your person, your health, you education, your job, even your stuff - than you can guarantee no one else will, either.

He'd been in the army for a long time and said, about slovenly people in adulthood: if someone treats their home, their car, their clothes and all that like swine, you can bet they'll treat you like swine, too; just look at the example they set for themselves.

He's a wise man, my father. He and my mother just celebrated their 56th wedding anniversary.

She's a wise women herself, 'Wiser than I am,' as my father says.

My MIL gave me this advice and although it is really good, practical advice I felt it came from a bitter place. She had split from FIL who left her with nothing but debt and my DH couldn't be anymore different from his DF because of the single parent upbringing he had. From things she had said about her exH it was plain to see why their relationship didn't work (IMO he had a lot of issues which are still obvious to this day). DH and I are completely different to them in every way and have a very open relationship regarding finances, communication etc. I definitely understand that it is important to have your own abilities without DH (which I do) but I definitely felt abit as though MIL was tarring every man with the same brush and it was a get out for her relationship choices

My dad gave me the best advice ever: Love is respect and it starts with you. If YOU don't love yourself first, respect yourself - your person, your health, you education, your job, even your stuff - than you can guarantee no one else will, either.

AGREE WITH THE ABOVE

He'd been in the army for a long time and said, about slovenly people in adulthood: if someone treats their home, their car, their clothes and all that like swine, you can bet they'll treat you like swine, too; just look at the example they set for themselves.

NOT SURE ABOUT this though. I have seen many preening, materialistic, vain people treat others in appalling, selfish, shallow ways. Some people are uptight and controlling and would judge someone who hadn’t alphabetised their knicker drawer as “slovenly”.

If that is their standard, though, Gutterton, then they are better keeping it and not continuing to someone who is on the same page as you cannot change people. That was his point, and he really meant, well, I have seen some who definitely fit the bill. Just noped out right then and there. I mean, a 38-year-old whose car was such a shit tip I couldn't get it in until one side was sort of cleared out. I didn't stick around to see his home.

My tip would be that if a man you are dating EVER belittles you, or anyone else vulnerable, don’t laugh it off, leave. Because when you are dating you are in a much stronger position than when you are pregnant/have children.

Also, look at how a man treats his mother. If their relationship is strained, work out why.

And play a board game of skill not chance with a potential partner. It sounds ridiculous, but actually tells you an awful lot about how someone views themself. Good/bad loser, sulks, anger, acceptance etc. Very illuminating!

I think the best the thing for our children is to raise them to be confident to love themselves, respect themselves and value themselves. No one is going to if it doesn't start with yourself.

Teach them to make informed decisions and they should ensure they know all the risks before making any decisions, but ultimately they are their decisions.

I agree completely.
however, there was a thread a couple of days ago ago from a poster who was surprised by the number of young people choosing not to work full time. There was a lot of support for the idea that other things are more important than work. This may be true when you are young but not when you start being aware of the need to contribute to a pension.
i find it dispiriting on Gransnet that so many older women have never worked or only had part time jobs which feeds into the belief that women are not serious about careers.
Lots of my friends never worked after children or only returned part time. They moan a lot about not having careers and being treated as house wives and mothers but most of them never bothered to treat work seriously. They are the ones shocked by husbands retiring because they are used to an empty house and afternoon tv.
Well done for putting this out there OP. I really hope women read and take this advice seriously.

The best things for young women to read are 'The Gift of Fear' and 'Prince Charming Isn't Coming'.

@Bourbonbiccy

I think the best the thing for our children is to raise them to be confident to love themselves, respect themselves and value themselves. No one is going to if it doesn't start with yourself.

Teach them to make informed decisions and they should ensure they know all the risks before making any decisions, but ultimately they are their decisions.

Absolutely! Walk away early if you're not compatible. You can only change a person if they are in nappies and training is for dogs, not adults.

"If your financial well being is dependent on having a job all it takes is a recession and you’re screwed."

Lots of jobs (eg public sector, key workers) are more reliable than being self-employed. Small businesses can be very vulnerable in a recession.

"keeping your hand in at work, even if it's just part time in a low paid job will mean you are not left high and dry if the person you're relying on for support leaves you - far easier to increase your hours or to find a new job if you've been consistently in work, than if you've been out of the workplace for many years."

I don't see how not working for a year or two to look after a child would make someone unemployable. And being out of the workplace for a couple of years would make no difference to my job. Not sure it would be worth making a loss by going to work for.

In the same vein, would you tell women (or men) not to take career breaks for any reason?

"even low-paying jobs have transferrable skills and a potential route to a career through the pathway of promotion to management level."

Lots of low-paying jobs don't have a pathway of promotion to management level actually and even if they do, they might be the kind of sector where there are loads more people on the bottom and only 1% ever get promoted.

We'll be working until the age of 70. I really don't think it's that awful to do something else for a couple of years.

If a man has a bad relationship with his parents, either father or mother, save yourself grief. Find another one who does.

A bad upbringing will show itself most clearly when you have children.

Keep a job.

Do not “move to the country” if your relationship has problems.

Keep your friends.

Excellent post ! I have this drilled in to my daughters from an early age.
My work is my saviour in every way, my children are independent , my exh walked out on us and fortunately my career has
Supported us even when he could not
Pay maintenance.
A strong independent female role model is the most effective means to fostering independence, financial and otherwise in children especially girls.

@kittytheteapot

I'm not really young (definitely old enough to know better!), but I've been umming and ahhing over whether or not to go back to work. My baby's 11 months and I quit my job when he was born rather than go back after 6 weeks.

Thank you for this post. I love and trust my husband but I'm going to start looking at what work's available tomorrow.

If you have a burning desire to be a SAHM or if childcare costs would eat up your entire earnings and therefore you feel being a SAHM is the only option open to you, know this: holding on to your career is still more important.

I wouldn't teach my DC this. I would hope that they achieve everything they desire in life. I would like to think I raised them to be well balanced enough to weigh up for themselves if it's a viable choice.

if taking a few years out to care for their child full time is their burning desire then go ahead and make it work. Be glad we are in a time where we have the choice.

It's not only a woman's earrings for childcare it's a joint expense.

I have never understood people who say they loose themselves without their career, it hasn't happened to me, why would it.

You are very right and very wrong.

I won't let my dream of staying home with my children be overruled by fear of a man leaving me!!!

Ah! Typed a long message and the internet swallowed it.

Just wanted to say good luck to you @MagpieWife.

Also, I never meant to make it sound as though I did not think women should stay at home with their children if they wanted to. I did! I dont regret my time with them. What I do regret, and what I would wish women to consider, is that if you leave it too long, you cant then get back into work easily. If I had returned at the point when I was looking at paying more in childcare than I was earning, it would only have been for a short time. Instead, I let that put me off, and by the time I could, as I saw it, financially afford to work, I had lost all motivation and confidence and couldn't overcome that.

Roxfox, it is not about being afraid of a man leaving you. It is about being financially and emotionally and mentally secure in case you ever decide you want to leave him!