Advice to all young women

[Kittytheteapot]

It doesn't matter how much you love him. It doesn't matter how lovely he is, how helpful, how understanding, how much of a feminist he is. It doesn't matter how equal you are. It doesn't matter if you would move heaven and earth to be with him.

Always maintain a degree of independence. Have some money that is yours and yours alone. Maintain friendships and interests that are nothing to do with him. Hold on to your career through thick and thin. If you have a burning desire to be a SAHM or if childcare costs would eat up your entire earnings and therefore you feel being a SAHM is the only option open to you, know this: holding on to your career is still more important. Go part time if you want to spend more time with your child, let childcare costs eat up your earnings. It is better to keep one foot in the door than to let it shut behind you. Keep being you, even if you think you are happy and fulfilled as a mommy.

Because you never know. One day in the far distant future, that lovely man you fell head over heels for might just turn out to not be the Prince you think he is. And if that day comes, you don't want to have spent the last 30 years dependent on him for everything. You don't want to be without a career or any means of getting one. You don't want to have nowhere to go. You don't want to be floundering about trying to remember who you were when you were young and independent with friends and opportunities.

That's all. I expect people will heap scorn on me. I can only point out this isn't AIBU. I just wish someone had given me this advice 30 years ago and I had been sensible enough to listen and act on such advice.

I don’t think you have to see men as ugly and malicious, but you cannot guarantee that they will be around forever. As a career woman you probably see yourself as an equal in your marriage so you are entitled to the same level of support from your husband as you give him. For many women their is very little equality.
My DH encouraged me to step outside my comfort zone early in my career. When I chose to go part time to have a family he accepted that we would take a financial hit and that we would not be able to take the next step up the property ladder as planned but this has never been a problem. Having recently sold my business we are now looking at downsizing when DS leaves for university allowing us to fully retire ( we are both semi retired).

My DH has never been my equal financially but it works for us. Very much a roll reversal since he is now the SAHP. Attitudes to this are varied, most men are jealous, but he receives the most raised eyebrows from fellow SAHMs.
The best thing is that my DS has grown up with all this as the norm so will hopefully not expect any future partner to give up their career.

Do not go part-time if you are not married. Marriage is not 'just a piece of paper' anymore than a will, a passport, title deeds or a court summons is. Your 'partner' is just someone who shack up with in the eyes of the law unless you've put quite a lot of legal protection in place already.

" If it isnt relevant to you, by all means ignore me."

I think it's more than just me it's not relevant to isn't it. I'd say about half the population have jobs rather than careers.

Couldn't agree more.
I was also taught to say "I don't know how to make tea" as I was such a soft touch that my dad was worried I would just become the tea lady in all my jobs.

Also want to chip in - it's never to late to excel your career, I changed career after returning from maternity leave and it was the best decision I ever made.

My DM also retrained at 45 and got a degree. You're never past it.

@JustJayne69 The important thing is that when you had kids you maintained a partnership, that doesn't mean you owe your husband anymore than he owes you. You worked together, and if you were to ever split or he was to die, you can stand on your own two feet (quickly). Not every woman is lucky enough to be able to say that (luck probably isn't the right term) it's not a "men are bastards" thread, shit happens, it's just about how we position ourselves if things were to ever change, for whatever reason, it's just that for the OP it was a marriage breakdown. Another poster has said about her beloved DH sadly dying.

I was also taught to say "I don't know how to make tea"

I make vile coffee. Utterly repulsive. I'm never asked twice.

Although I agree OP I don't think it is simple as that.
A woman can choose to be a stay at home parent if they decide that as a couple. (A married couple so she has more protection) There is nothing wrong with putting your career on hold if you want and can afford to as a family to be stay at home mum while they are pre school age.
If you have a low income job, childcare costs would be more than you would be taking home.
Also if you have a child with a disability, it is almost impossible to keep up with a job and caring needs. Depending on the severity of the disability.
I think it all depends on the family, the relationship you have and circumstances.
I agree women need to keep their independence and own job if that works.
Not all men will scew you over if the marriage fails.

Men don't necessarily turn bad - sometimes relationships just run their course and I think we need to make daughters and sons aware of that too . Would also add don't have children with men you are not married to but if you do then get a Cohabitation Agreement drawn up .

The tea/coffee thing reminds me of a book Never Learn to Type by Margaret Joan Anstee who worked at the United Nations. I think she was given the advice "otherwise you'll end up as secretary to a man less bright than you"

Another issue is that women when they continue to work - do so part-time and allow careers to plateau so that they can flex around childcare. This is less exposure that totally dropping out of the workforce - but still a major issue. We need to see that we should not hand over our / compromise own career potential to and gift it to someone else. The other thing that we need to know is in many careers you have a “window” of max impact / career acceleration and if you are not on that train it’s not easy to try to join in later and pick up speed once the DCs are a primary or secondary. Also a more senior career is not just about money - it’s about intellectual exposure, new skills, sense of purpose, achievement, status, more / broader options for consulting, second careers etc. Don’t give all that away to someone else.

Flex and remote working allows many careers to work around family life for both parents. As PP said both should be prepared to flex. Ideally both could work 4 days a week opposite ends so that childcare was only needed for 3 days.

Also don’t be the one who always takes the day off to accommodate a sick child etc.

Most of equality workplace legislation is in place - we need to push out partners to take flex / remote options - as sometimes the block is in our own relationships.

But I agree you need to have v overt conversations with our young people.

But not all women want a high flying career.
Some people are happy with a job that they like, keeps them happy and maintains a good family life balance.
Not all people are pushing for more. Regardless of being a woman or not

@Alwaystalks500

I’m not sure I agree with “ The most important thing of all I'd say would be to not even consider having children outside of marriage, after all, that's what it's for”

Marriage is not solely for the purpose of having children. And for some women who are financially secure and able to be dependent, they might be better off not being married - it might afford them easier access to freedom if they wish to end a relationship.

A few good financial agreements i.e. mortgage, will, life insurance can largely negate the need to be married in my opinion.

Agree with all the sentiments about not giving up work, avoiding dependence upon anyone and keeping up pension payments - absolutely essential advice that I will be teaching my daughters 👍🏻

Fantastic post OP.

Financial independence is vital. No matter how much ppl say it's our money, while you're married or if you aren't married, that person can keep the money they earn for themselves.

I'm amazed that there are still huge numbers of SAHMs. None of my friends were.

Being a SAHM preschool is one thing, but the number who are still not working when kids are in school...then into their teens and beyond is strange to me.

It leaves you so very vulnerable.

A very wise post OP

Abso-fucking-lutely.

When I was in my teens having just learnt about my grandmother's shitty life with an abusive alcoholic and no means of escape I decided early on that I'd always stand on my own two feet come what may.

Marriage hasn't changed that and never will.

I started up a pension for my daughter when she was 6, only pay a bit in every month for her but it will add up over the years. I already am teaching her that you don't need a man for these things!!

Definitely! That's what I keep telling my DD (soon 16).
I have always worked, from a few hours cleaning to full time career building.
Girls also need to understand that it is never too late to start a career/ employment past having DC.

And who knows, it might actually save the family one day, as with us: DH has been made redundant (thanks Covid-19 lockdown), employment opportunities in his sector are non existent, luckily I earn a decent wage, that covers our outgoings and basic food...

Men don't always let you down, A lot of women are marriage,and partnership wreckers.I know quite a few as such. They are fiercely independent,and one wonders why they were married in the first place, and had any children.

I dont want this thread to be totally about me - I think a lot of people have contributed really great points here and overall I wanted this thread to be advice for young women starting out - but just to correct a couple of misunderstandings here:

Firstly, my marriage hasn't broken down. I am still married. Not very happily at the moment, but not in any immediate danger of ending. My advice still stands though. I feel I have failed myself over the years, and if I could do things again, I would do them differently.

Secondly, my decision to be a SAHM was just that, MY decision. My husband supported me in my decision. It was the wrong decision, I see that now. It might not be wrong for others but I still think keeping options open where you can is better than closing options off.

Thirdly, I dont think the advice is only applicable to career women. Pelleas said what I wanted to say about that at 16.43.

Oh and not all men are the enemy. But all women should do what they can to be their own best friend.

I think anyone in any relationship should read this. Both members of the relationship should have their own support system for themselves, whether that be emotional or financial.
The circumstances that require them to be used arnt always one partner turning sour. Death and illness can very quickly leave you in the same position

Thank you for this advice.
I do have an amazing future husband, and we have 2 children under 3.
I am a SAHM and haven't worked for 2 years,... we did look into going back part time but my pay wouldn't even cover one child being in nursery 3 days a week.

I wish I was a higher earner and then I could just go back full time and support both kids going to nursery! We are in London and it would cost just over £2k a month for both in nursery fees.

Number 2 wasn't planned but I do adore her!

I will always keep your words in my mind and I will endeavour to get back to work ASAP!!

It's sad but very true. Money gives you options.

I’ve got a chip on my shoulder coz I don’t see men as ugly and malicious ?

No, like I said, you’ve a chip on your shoulder because you saw someone giving solid advice to women and interpreted it as “they’re attacking men”.

The best piece of advice my maternal grandmother ever gave to both my mother and to me was always to have our own money. My mother has been married for 60 years, I've been married for 30 years and we both have running away funds.