Found his 2020 "Action Plan"

[Hoodlihoodlihoo]

We have 2 young kids and we have been having relationship problems for a while. I then came across his action plan for 2020 whilst tidying my office- it was inside a notebook of his and it fell out.

There are 15 things on the list.
-Lose weight
-DIY jobs

• career goals etc

-Lower mortgage payments

• sort finances

Out of 15 items, two items involve leisure time as us as a family and only 1 item involves us as a couple.

A massive 8 items are things HE wants to do that involve hobbies/friends, time away. All of which have the word BATTLE written next to them. This is no doubt referring to me making these things a battle for him to do.

Of the items, there is a 5 day stag-do abroad, a golfing weekend, six 12 hour hobby events and a 4 day abroad holiday to his Uncles wedding in Cyprus with the intention of him attending this alone (much to my surprise!)

There is 1 goal for us as a couple- 1 night away in a city.

Us having young children has made certain events difficult for him to attend over the last year, hence him perceiving them a battle to attend them (he definitely means a battle with me, he regularly says I make his life a battle) . I'm very upset he sees it this way, it's just the demands of young family life that has made things difficult to do at times. I have no issues about him doing things he wants to do, but it just hasn't been possible sometimes and I have found life with 2 young DCs exhausting, I have also suffered with my health in the last year, making it even harder. We discussed prior to DC2s birth about how restrictions on our freedom are short lived when you have a baby. But that things would ease the older the DCs got.

However, he clearly just thinks I'm stopping him from doing what he wants.

What hurts me the most though is that he began the year with a list of goals, 8 of which are about his hobbies and going away, leaving me with young kids for pong periods atleast 3 times in the year 2020.

Am I being unreasonable or is this just taking the piss? Considering we have no money for a family holiday abroad, he was planning on going abroad twice this year without us.

What would you be thinking/feeling?

I haven't been able to have much freedom due to breastfeeding over the last 18 months and now obviously lockdown, which has also scuppered all his plans. I feel completely taken for granted that he assumes I'm just going to solo parent our children whilst he's off fulfilling his solo bucketlist abroad whilst we stay at home. And then the whole "battle"thing.

Am I reading too much in to this?

Yes good advice from monkey in MN terms start getting your ducks in a row. Become more independant. Get used to leaving the kids with him.
When he next says "I'm hoping to go away for 4 days abroard." Reply " Great, I'm hoping to go the month after with my mum/ friend/whoever. "
I would bet money that he will absolutely not want you to have as much free time as he does.

To add when I split with my ex despite him having had endless nights away without either myself or the dc, one of the first things he said to dcs was "I'm not babysitting so that your mother can go out enjoying herself."
absolutely true and he stuck to his word dispute snacking up and marrying another woman!

It’s all about him. He is clearly thinking how he can get what he wants and seeing you as standing in the way. What do YOU want? Where’s your list? Why can’t you do a 5 day yoga retreat? Fairs fair right? Write a list of friends you want to visit etc. He’s dad. If you can parent solo for a week then so can you. To be honest, you’ve got two choices. Drop this obsession with “family/couple time” he’s not interested. Start building up your solo time and leave him with kids. Come down on that hard. Then he can do his 5 day trip but you get equivalent or more. Do you go to any evening classes every week? If not, start. You should be out 3 nights a week. Find things to do leaving him at home. It’s the only way this is going to swing in your favour. Start having fun without him. Dance classes etc. Find things that involve other hot guys. Clubbercise etc. Triathlon club...he doesn’t respect or value you right now. He sees you as a boring lump standing in his way of freedom. So swing it on it’s head. Short sharp shock is required to make him realise you have other options and you have a fab life without him. Or you tell him to move out. Say “we want different things” no further discussion. Then 50/50 access so he suddenly has every other weekend parenting on his own while you post up on social media what a brill time you’re having on your childfree weekends. I’d be making sure I posted from the locations he’s always wanted to go. Sorry, but I think you need to be clever and harsh here. He quite clearly doesn’t want your family anymore and he is “grass is greener” which will only lead to bad places so you need to get in first and nail this shit down. The results will either him having a shock/realisation or you’ll actually end up realising you can do better and meet somebody who does enjoy family time.

I love this advice. Take time for you and leave the children with him. If he complains say they are his children and you need time for yourself, like he does. If he thinks family tine is tough and he has no money wait until he works out how it will go as a single man.

But you don't want him staying if he's miserable and it's a battle. You don't want him realising he would be much poorer and making that the only reason to stay.

Oh and no way would I mention I’d seen the list. Nope. Have some pride and be clever. If you bring it up, what’s going to happen? Is he going to magically become a new man? No. He’s going to get defensive/resentful and even more entrenched in you as the barrier/difficult idea. What you need to do right now is bright and breezy. I’d say “can we have a chat later please?” I’d then pour a couple of glasses of wine and say “lockdown has made me realise that I need to get my life back and start having more me time. I’m guessing you’re the same so I suggest we both plan a week off with friends. I’m also going to start having more time out for hobbies etc so let’s draw up a monthly rota each month of when you’re having the kids and when I am to make sure it’s fair” do not mention family time. If he mentions it, I’d say “ok well we can do one day per month family time if you want but I’m not interested in more than that right now. I want time away from you and the kids as a preference. I need my life back away from you” sorry but I think you need to play hard ball. He doesn’t appreciate what he has. Moaning and crying won’t change that. Telling him what to do won’t change that. I had this with my husband. I was so depressed. Reasoning with him fell on deaf ears. He just checked out. I was spending every weekend on my own with the kids while he did his own thing. He was not interested or invested. Saw me as a boring mumsy nag. So I joined a gym. Dropped 2 stone. Started dressing in sexy yoga pants. Told him I’m out at classes 3 nights a week and every Saturday morning. You have the kids. See ya. Byeeee. Made the most of it. Long leisurely coffee after class etc. Even if I was sleep deprived and didn’t want to go, I’d still leave before kids bedtime and go sit in Tesco car park and have a nap/read a book for a few hours. I then started having movie/TV nights virtually with friends I’d made at the gym. So he’d be like “do you want my company tonight?” “Nah thanks. I’ve got plans with a mate” big smile. I stopped relying on him for company or interest. Oh suddenly his interest perked up once I wasn’t interested in him anymore. Funny that. He started doing more with the kids and all the disrespect over kids bedtimes/housework stopped. I now don’t do any of his washing. He does his own. I have a life outside of him and if he wants to F off somewhere, great cos it would mean more gym/friend time for me while he has kids on his own. You don’t need to be as harsh as me because I let it drag on for years so I’d reached breaking point by the time I did something about it. I’m telling you to get your life now before it gets too bad. Just my opinion of course but I have a friend who didn’t do this and kept chasing and moaning at him for family/couple time. He’s now with another woman and funnily enough he’s happy doing family time with her kids because he has to make an effort or she wouldn’t date him.

He sounds utterly selfish and hurtful to write things like BATTLE when these activities relate to you.

However, I personally would use it as a way of getting some time myself. Play him at his own game.

How about booking a spa weekend with a friend etc?

God knows you'll deserve a break from everything the amount of weekends away alone he has planned!

@needhandhold fantastic advice.

I agree with needhandhold

I did similar with my DH by accident when my second child was a baby. It was astonishing how much more interested in me he became.

I had decided to do more stuff on my own, which was just mine, for the sake of my sanity, while he then had to be home to take care of the babies.

I wouldn't have described him as disengaged before but my god he became more attentive.

Him having to compete for my attention, not able to take my "babysitting" for granted, was good for our relationship.

There is a book called 'Bringing Up Bebe' by Pamela Druckerman, about 'the wisdom of French parenting'. It's also about getting your life back and the importance of negotiating a balance between parenting and your own interests. It might inspire you.

I dont see the battleword as alarming. We can read so much into things. It could easily just meanchallenge & he wrote it that way. Or maybe it could be a eye-opener for you, in how he sees the communication between the two of you. Too confronting? Its not likely something he enjoys anymore than you do. Communication is key, and creating a SAFE space for authentic feelings to get addressed. The only way to true resolution.

@needhandhold is absolutely right. If you want a better life with him, be strategic. Her method is really good. If you don't allow yourself to be treated as a doormat, you won't be.

Honestly, the men that think family life is such heavy weight and stopping them from doing what they want to do. Don't have a family then!!! No one forced him to have children.
Making a list like that is self centred. He can think that, he can think what it would be like. Don't we all. We can all dream
We don't make an actual list and plan it. He's a grown man with responsibilities. Responsibilities he chose.
He sounds like a complete child. Like like are a parent stopping him doing what he wants to do.

What do you want OP?
If you're angry about the list, tell him
Ask him exactly where you and the children fit in. Maybe when the kids are older, there wi be time for things on the list. But right now, how???
And then see if this is how you want to spend your married life. As a 'Battle '.
He can have all the free time he wants as a single man

Oh hang on, he can't. Finances, co Parenting, job around childcare etc
You can't have everything
You just can't.

Actually reading the other posts, maybe don't mention the list. That would be up to you.
But certainly start thinking of yourself a bit more. Change things.

You are literally not high up on his agenda. I had one of them. Don't anymore. Let him go and then he can do whatever he wants.

Feel sad for you OP. Must have been gutting to come across that list.

I once found a piece of paper which fell out of my boyfriend's pocket, saying "LemonsLive makes me feel so trapped. I need to be free". We had a very free and easy relationship, no mortgage, cheap rent, no kids, he was completely free and often went to parties on his own! I was really shocked and upset.

It doesn't look good that he's describing his feelings and plans like that for you.

I think the BEST thing you can do is see a solicitor asap. Get to know your rights BEFORE you discuss it with him or make any decisions. Then you can see the lie of the land, make plans, judge timing to suit you, etc. As far as its possible, you will have the upper hand in that sense, knowledge is power and everything.

100 percent agree with what vodka cranberry wrote. As someone else said also it sounds like he thinks he is a single man with zero responsibility?!

*he regularly says I make his life a battle

Really? I'd be offering him a peace deal with a divorce lawyer*

^ Iflyaway very droll :-)

Needhandhold's advice is genius. If you do or say literally nothing else Other than follow it to the letter it will change your life forever.

It goes against every instinct of course. You want to talk, to get closer, to be a family, you don't want to go out on your own and leave your children and pretend to be someone you're not. You want to persuade him through your loving and reasoned arguments that choosing a life together is the right thing, that losing you all is a possibility that should keep him in line. You don't want to play games. You should be able to communicate

The only problem with all of this is that you are wrong if you think that's how it works. It isn't easy to realise that, but it's the truth. I think of this kind of thing as being there what is, vs the what I'd like it to be'. He is not female, he is not you. You can talk and talk and it won't matter. You can threaten and tell him he will lose you. He is not you.

SHOW him that you are a person with a possible life away from him and SHOW him that you and the children can and will have fun without him and SHOW him that you are a woman with her own life, and friends and he will respond.

You've probably already had 'the talk' which probably went very badly - so now the way to move into this would be a very breezy 'you know I've been thinking about what we said and I think you're right. I need to get a life. I'm no fun any more. And that's no fun for you. So... ' and then you lay out your plans for him doing his bit you having holidays and time out etc as in needhandhold's post.

It kept talking and be miserable I guess is always an option

Yes I agree go ahead and get your own life, he's not going to realise how it is for you without being shown.
It is a risk though because he may decide this is better more separate and if he is a total prick, make it difficult for you to do that. Eg not be home with the kids when you want to go out etc
If he wanted family time, he would. That's what so sad about it. He's got a family he's not bothered spending time with and his wife is a 'battle'
So choose you. Choose your life. And if he comes along with you, great. And if he's shit and makes it difficult, you know where you are and he's not your future.
But at least you will get your life in the process.

Aerial whatever way you look at it, it's a risk. Currently I'd say it's a 50/50 risk he will decide he wants to be 'free'. At least living your own life has a chance of working thereby reducing that risk considerably.

People are funny. Take something away and they want it more. When a woman starts to pull away and have fun elsewhere most men panic and suddenly it's all about how they can keep her vs the other way around.

Not always.
But yes, least you'll know if he wants to go.
Let him go then. Either way, it will be a better life.

I need to get a life. I'm no fun any more. And that's no fun for you

But Cranberry, why should she say that to him, play these games with him, and make her current "self" the problem? Her life might be really lovely as it is - babies and toddlers can be great fun and very sweet. Its not her fault if he doesn't want to join in or sees it as a battle or obstacle. I can see where you're coming from, to start doing other interesting things in life, so her DH will have to respond differently, but I think that approach also contains the danger that it is inauthentic and playing games. OP sounds also like she does want to do other things but there is limited time. And it doesn't solve the central problem presented here that he sees family life and her as an imposition.

I think it must have been very distressing for the OP to find that note with those thoughts on it. Only OP is in full possession of the facts and feelings of the situation to see how this will go.

If Id make a list it would probably be just things about me. nothing about my family haha. So I don't see a problem with his list.

But with him wanting to go to the wedding alone... That is weird.

I get why you think it's a game Lemons. And maybe it's easy to stay the same and just let him go. Maybe that's a choice she wants to make? But it has to be a conscious choice and the consequences have to be worth it. All I'm pointing out is that often that kind of thing results in a relationship continuing, stronger.

Of course children are sweet and family life is fun - no ones saying it's not. Apart from him that is. So the choice is do nothing and he goes, or do something and he doesn't but it might not be something you want to do. It's certainly not the easy way.

I was thinking about it earlier though, how sometimes we subsume ourselves into their lives and the live we have as a couple and family, and how much it can put even very decent men off. It's just human nature. We all like to feel that the person we are with is worth having.

Oh and by the way I mentioned having fun with the children too, without him. It's not like I'm saying pretend to be single!