He's neither in nor out and I don't want to fall out over it.

[Limbolimbo777]

Advice needed please. I had a fairly tumultous relationship of a few months that broke up in early December. But we never really left each other's lives (continued to talk and message etc) and recently we have seen eachother a couple of times and slept together.

The last time we spent time together he mowed my lawn and discovered something wrong with the mower. He went home saying he'd be back with the parts needed to fix it. But he didn't say when and I didn't ask.

The issue is this: When we have seen each other recently it has been at my instigation. I want to be sure he really wants to see me again by leaving it up to him now. But two opportunities to see eachother have now passed and he hasn't initiated. Neither have I because I have decided I'd rather not see him again than chase him.

My response has been to back off, because I want to give him room to come to me. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and I don't want to push. I understand if he is wary about continuing things - we do butt heads. I understand if he has wanted to take some time to think and process.

So I've been giving him as much space as I can whilst being friendly whenever he approaches me. I've not initiated texts or messenger conversations and have ended conversations (in a warm way) to go and do my own thing, waiting for him to reinitiate, and I haven't mentioned seeing eachother again. I thought if he doesn't want to have a big conversation spelling out that he doesn't want to pursue things and would rather they just fizzle out, this gives him plenty of opportunity to just fade away with no conflict. I'd rather that too than have to have a big deep and meaningful that might go badly.

We are part of the same social circle and I want to remain on good terms. So I'm not going to just throw him away and/or block him. We're going to see eachother around and neither of us want any awkwardness, I'm sure.

But whenever I come to the conclusion that he clearly doesn't want to see me again and back off, he reinitiates conversation. He'll flirt and allude to seeing eachother again (making jokes about my lawn), or he'll just make small talk, but he won't ask to see me. And I feel deeply frustrated. I want to see him. I think if I attempted to drive plans forward, they would probably happen, but just for once I want to know that he wants me enough to make things happen himself.

I know him well enough to know that a confrontation along the lines of, 'listen, just be honest with me, I want to know where I stand' will go badly. These conversations make him feel like he's being painted into a corner and they never go well. I'd rather just leave it. But whenever I try, back he comes!

I'm in limbo and don't seem to be able to find a way out. In reality I'm dying to see him again. Help?

I don't think you need to block him but I think you are kidding yourself if you think you won't end up restarting something when you next feel lonely.

Surely your friends wouldn't want you treated this way? Why on earth would they want you sexing this loser?

People are telling you to block him for good reason.
Look at what happened to you last time.
You were used by fuckboy and you can't trust yourself.

Op you talk about your boundaries then post

I mean I never wanted to move in together or get married. I wasn't interested in meeting his kids and wouldn't allow him to meet mine (something he pushed for at the beginning when he was declaring undying love.) I would have been happy to have only seen eachother once a week or so (and spend the odd weekend together.)

Then post

Well we might have become more integrated into each others lives in time wrt family etc.

You never wanted to live with him and marry and have no interest in meeting his children.

You keep changing your boundaries and what you want. I suspect thats why you keep going back.

You want a monogamous FWB relationship. With respect and Monogamy. Many go wrong and are an imbalance of power. Many dont have respect. But many have both those things.

I know people who have fwb, while its not a proper relationship, they dont sleep with other people. Treat each other well. Its like a casual realtionship. But they don't want to be tied to having spend lots of time together.

Its difficult to tell if its niche or not because you keep changing. Taking things slow is fine. Having no interest in the rest of their life is fwb territory.

And that conversation doesn't have to go on like that. They ask.....you tell them it wasnt going anywhere and he was messing you about and when you called it off he wouldn't stop texting.

And even if it did....whats wrong with saying you wanted a relationship, he didnt. So you called it quits, but he kept trying to have a casual relationship.

Its ok to want a relationship. Its nothing to be ashamed of.

The probelm is, you will respond. Like you did recently. He told you what he wants. By keeping going back, you are agreeing to it.

Why did you break up in the first place OP?

I've been in your EXACT situation and felt the same as you. We were on and off for literally years but I finally managed to completely cut him off around two years ago, and my life is so much better. You're being very accommodating towards someone who really does not care as much about you.

@MaeveDidIt

People are telling you to block him for good reason. Look at what happened to you last time. You were used by fuckboy and you can't trust yourself.

This 👆👆👆👆

Block him not because of him but because you can't resist, apparently. Are you friends who know you best not telling you the same? Blocking isn't flouncy and I don't think anyone else would give a crap would they unless you're like 17 and it's big news?

I'm in a very similar situation and the answers you are getting are helping me to disengage from this self esteem draining shite. I too don't want to block as it seems flouncy but I also don't want to make myself vulnerable by laying my cards on the table cos I know it will lead to more pain. But I'm in constant pain anyway. I was doing much better when I wasn't in contact with him but at the same time I didn't have the closure I obviously need. I know the answer is to rip off the plaster, feel the big pain and then work on my self esteem.

Ah Nicelunch I'm sorry. It doesn't feel good, I know. I'm in no way advising you, but for me, having the conversation actually really helped as hearing him say that he didn't want a relationship properly extinguished any hope that was keeping me close. I now feel better than I have done in weeks! There's real relief mixed in with the sadness and finality. I don't feel like I'm hanging on his hook. I'm looking forward to a weekend spent doing my own thing instead of trying to pretend I'm not waiting on a message saying he's coming to see me.

I realise no one on here is convinced but something really has shifted for me. I can resist him. I can trust myself not to respond. I'm not going to continue to see someone who has explicitly told me they don't want a relationship with me. Hard limit.

Thanks. I so look forward to the time he has no hold on me. I know it all intellectually and I know what childhood wound fear of abandonment this dysfunctional behaviour of mine comes from but the fear of making the final cut and how his unbothered reaction will feel to me is holding me and my life back. In some ways it's been really nice having the good bits but the bad bits far outweigh them. What you say about the weekend resonates so much with me. I met him in aa and my behaviour with him is emotionally unsober and cannot not be addressed to move me on as a functional human who can have a normal relationship.

Well, Nicelunch from what I understand about alcoholism and addiction issues, you really need to take care. This situation is dangerous for you in the sense that it could take you back to a drink. If he's in AA too and understands how triggering relationship issues can be for people then he's an absolute bastard for using you in this way.

Reading this thread really resonates with a situation I’ve been in since last summer. Some of the similarities are amazing. It was a really bruising experience and even though I’ve not had contact with him for 6 weeks now I still feel raw about it.

The ‘situationship’ and its ending really, really hurt me because on reflection it revealed so much about me, how I operate in relationships, why I am attracted to certain types of men, childhood issues, abandonment issues, self esteem issues, addiction issues etc etc etc And it caused me (and still does) to have to address lots of uncomfortable stuff. I’ve learnt a lot (and I still haven’t blocked him, and I’m kidding myself if I think I’m not vulnerable to him turning it on again).

I really enjoyed the book ‘They unexpected joy of being single’ on audible, the narrator has got a really lovely voice, and I found it both enlightening and comforting.

Good luck xx

Interesting adjunct: when I first got together with this guy a couple of our mutual female friends told me that he had previously treated another woman very badly. He had been friends with this woman for years, had known she was madly in love with him, slept with her a couple of times and dumped her. My friends felt it was poor behaviour on his part considering he was supposed to care about her as a friend and he knew how she felt about him.

I asked him about it and he said they had had a "one or two night stand" and that he had not wanted to pursue anything afterwards but found it extremely difficult to extricate himself. He said this woman had "practically stalked him." Mutual friends confirmed that she had become really really caught up and had probably pushed things too hard and continued to bombard him with unwanted contact for too long.

But I can see how his style of relating (the intermittent reinforcement, the love bombing then withdrawing, the reinitiation of pursuit when you drop the rope etc) could lead someone to lose their cool. I'm not saying it's acceptable to push someone to the point of them feeling uncomfortable (like he says this woman did) but I think he likely had a part to play in keeping her invested. I don't believe he didn't drop her the odd crumb to keep her hooked because that's his style.

He's continuing because he wants sex. I think it's as simple as that.

He's set his stall out about not wanting a relationship. But will continue to push your boundaries for sex. That way if you do engage, have sex and kick off again, he can tell you that he'd set his stall out and it's all your fault. You knew what he did and didn't want.

He likes the sex and enjoys the friendship. He wants his cake and to eat it!

I like the sex and the friendship too. But it isn't enough. And besides, it may look and feel like a friendship from a distance, but look closer and it's rotten. I don't persistently hurt my friends and my friends don't persistently hurt me.

I had a none relationship like this and most importantly it stopped me moving on.

I didn't especially want anything serious, but I hated constantly feeling like a booty call. I had lots of fun when we were together and I enjoyed the sex, it just wasn't enough. I wanted to be his priority, even if it wasn't in the conventional way.

I think you can have either friendship or sex, but not both with him.

I asked him about it and he said they had had a "one or two night stand" and that he had not wanted to pursue anything afterwards but found it extremely difficult to extricate himself. He said this woman had "practically stalked him."

I think this is quite telling actually. How difficult is it to extricate yourself from a situation you don't want to be in? It's not. You block and move on. Bearing in mind that this is from his POV. He kept her dangling, because she was a supply of sex for him and then when he's done, it's all her fault because she didn't listen to what he'd said.

If you don't want a relationship with someone, stop having sex with them. It's that easy. It's all about what he wants and needs. This isn't a nice guy, he sounds like a scumbag. Be very, very careful, OP, because whichever way this goes, it could be you he's badmouthing next. He sounds very much like a narcissist.

He didn't keep her dangling for sex. He specifically said that after the one or two nights they had together he decided he never wanted to have sex with her again. I think what happened is that he knew she loved him, didn't really fancy her, but he liked her and so thought he'd give it a go hoping maybe some attraction would grow. Then in bed he realised they just weren't compatible at all. I got the impression she had given him the ick slightly, to be honest, although he wouldn't say much about it.

But I imagine he kept her dangling for ego boosts and validation. She was convinced he was 'the one' and she wanted to have a family with him. All very flattering, I think.

He definitely has some narcissistic traits. He has shown a real lack of empathy for me. My getting upset just annoys him - he imagines it's some sort of fault of mine. It just puts him out ("you're always upset with me!") and he is never able to look at his own part in things. He doesn't really consider my needs much.

However, he has an ex long term partner and children whom he really steps up for. I have never heard him criticise her, and he's always there for them when they need him. He adores his daughters - you can see it's genuine when he talks about them. And he has maintained a good relationship with an adult son who was born when he was a teenager. So he does have some decent values.

But yes, he's generally completely self involved. Can't cope with any kind of criticism. Reacts childishly.

Hey OP, just a note to say I think you've played it really we'll every stage of the way considering what you knew and your expectations. Glad you've come to a satisfying conclusion for yourself and this dude grows up.

And HOPE this dude grows up, rather...

Thanks Coffee - I appreciate that. I wish I had disengaged sooner, but it's ok. I'm already feeling much better than when I updated.

Well he's tried a few times to get in touch now - last night was a question about how I was getting on with an issue I was having with the house. I've continued to ignore him.

It feels freeing not having to go through a load of mental gymnastics of should I reply, when should I reply, what should I reply. I imagine he'll drop the rope soon enough.

I'm channelling the woman on the dumped by text thread. She's ace.

But I can see how his style of relating (the intermittent reinforcement, the love bombing then withdrawing, the reinitiation of pursuit when you drop the rope etc) could lead someone to lose their cool. I'm not saying it's acceptable to push someone to the point of them feeling uncomfortable (like he says this woman did) but I think he likely had a part to play in keeping her invested. I don't believe he didn't drop her the odd crumb to keep her hooked because that's his style.

Oh, I had one of these back in my 20s. With age comes wisdom and I now realise he was a manipulative fucker - he got off on pushing me away then reeling me back in (an older male colleague back at the time did take me on one side at one point and say "for fuck's sake, he's one of the few people I genuinely think is a psychopath")

Just block.

It's not about whether you look sad or whatever. It's about doing what's healthy for you - and healthy for you is staying a long, long way away from him.

Sorry - cross post OP - I see you are trying to do just that. Hold fast and stay strong, it's 100% the right thing.

And besides, it may look and feel like a friendship from a distance, but look closer and it's rotten. I don't persistently hurt my friends and my friends don't persistently hurt me.

Well done for realizing this. It will help you keep away.

Block rather than just not responding though. If you don't get messages from the person, you're not tempted to respond, or effected by what they say etc.

He specifically said that after the one or two nights they had together he decided he never wanted to have sex with her again. I think what happened is that he knew she loved him, didn't really fancy her, but he liked her and so thought he'd give it a go hoping maybe some attraction would grow.

You're still being overly generous with your interpretation here. At other points, you know what he's like.

Translation= He knew how she felt and used her for sex, then dumped her. I don't think he really liked her all along. Like you said, he got something out of it.

you can see it's genuine when he talks about them

With a guy like this, you truly can't tell when they're genuine and when they're not, if they ever are. I expect he keeps charming/keeping in with his ex in the hope of sex, or his ego is boosted when she relies on him.