He's neither in nor out and I don't want to fall out over it.

[Limbolimbo777]

Advice needed please. I had a fairly tumultous relationship of a few months that broke up in early December. But we never really left each other's lives (continued to talk and message etc) and recently we have seen eachother a couple of times and slept together.

The last time we spent time together he mowed my lawn and discovered something wrong with the mower. He went home saying he'd be back with the parts needed to fix it. But he didn't say when and I didn't ask.

The issue is this: When we have seen each other recently it has been at my instigation. I want to be sure he really wants to see me again by leaving it up to him now. But two opportunities to see eachother have now passed and he hasn't initiated. Neither have I because I have decided I'd rather not see him again than chase him.

My response has been to back off, because I want to give him room to come to me. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and I don't want to push. I understand if he is wary about continuing things - we do butt heads. I understand if he has wanted to take some time to think and process.

So I've been giving him as much space as I can whilst being friendly whenever he approaches me. I've not initiated texts or messenger conversations and have ended conversations (in a warm way) to go and do my own thing, waiting for him to reinitiate, and I haven't mentioned seeing eachother again. I thought if he doesn't want to have a big conversation spelling out that he doesn't want to pursue things and would rather they just fizzle out, this gives him plenty of opportunity to just fade away with no conflict. I'd rather that too than have to have a big deep and meaningful that might go badly.

We are part of the same social circle and I want to remain on good terms. So I'm not going to just throw him away and/or block him. We're going to see eachother around and neither of us want any awkwardness, I'm sure.

But whenever I come to the conclusion that he clearly doesn't want to see me again and back off, he reinitiates conversation. He'll flirt and allude to seeing eachother again (making jokes about my lawn), or he'll just make small talk, but he won't ask to see me. And I feel deeply frustrated. I want to see him. I think if I attempted to drive plans forward, they would probably happen, but just for once I want to know that he wants me enough to make things happen himself.

I know him well enough to know that a confrontation along the lines of, 'listen, just be honest with me, I want to know where I stand' will go badly. These conversations make him feel like he's being painted into a corner and they never go well. I'd rather just leave it. But whenever I try, back he comes!

I'm in limbo and don't seem to be able to find a way out. In reality I'm dying to see him again. Help?

I would back off from him, you are just waiting around for someone who doesn't care that you are waiting around. He seems to go elsewhere when he want's to, and come back when he sees fit.. Put it all together, and it's not ideal.

Just can't understand why he can't be upfront.

Yeah... because he knows if he does, you would no longer be available for ego boosts and sex.

He probably doesn't even know this consciously. He just knows that he wants to keep a few women on the go at all times, to make sure he can get his needs met sexually or whatever. And that in order to do that, he needs to keep rotating them around from front to back burner etc.

You do talk about him as if you are completely powerless and without any agency. Is there a reason for that? Does he hold a lot of sway in the friend group etc? Or is it simply that you hope he will start liking you enough to be your boyfriend so you don't want to upset him?

As I read your posts, and you talk about being sucked back in by him - I keep thinking - yeah but she could just... not respond.... but I get the impression that you really really really want to respond. Which is strange, because this guy has really made it crystal clear that you are 100% an option to him, and in no way his priority.

Can I make a suggestion, perhaps read up on adult attachment styles... I think you have an anxious attachment style, and you might be happier if you research it a bit and start learning a bit about how to take better care of yourself in relationships.

What are his messages about? Normal every day stuff mostly. How's my day been? How his day has been. What he's having for dinner. Discussions about an HBO series we are both fans of. Mixed in with occasional flirting/reminiscing about our relationship/little crumbs about how we will see eachother 'at some point soon'.

Anyway I've decided what I'm going to do and it's a relief tbh. I'm fed up with it all.

Good for you limbo.

If you do want to be friends with him (and you can handle that without overthinking it), just respond to the normal, friendly stuff and ignore anything flirty.

I have an old flame with whom I’m still friends. He’ll message every few months to see how I’m doing or say hi, and sometimes he will try to flirt or reminisce. I just ignore that stuff completely - I know he’s only doing it because he wants to think I still fancy him, but I don’t.

Mind I never fancied him that much, so easy for me to say I suppose!

You will feel relieved and that’s very telling OP!!
Honestly I can see why you have ended up this way, because you are kind of friends who fancied each other. I think he wants to keep his options open and you are just one of many options
Because you can’t/won’t have a chat about it he is walking around guilt free basically thinking he’s doing nothing wrong... not promised you anything has he?
He’s not a good catch, throw him back!

Well, I don't feel used Ragwort. I had sex with him because I wanted to have sex and I enjoyed it. I didn't do it as a trade. I don't feel hard done by in that respect.

However, what I don't enjoy is the feeling that he can take or leave me, whereas I am chomping at the bit. And for that reason, I'm out.

That’s the thing isn’t it - as Menora said, he may just assume you’re both on the same page as FWB. He doesn’t know you’re chomping at the bit.

If you could be happy with FWB that would be great, but you couldn’t, so best to just stick to the F and not the WB...

If he offers to come back and fix your lawn mower. Say no it's okay thank you, this is not working for me anymore. I will still be friends and i will see you in our social group but not on a person level I need more. Thanks anyway. X

I think he probably does know I'm chomping at the bit, Weather although I have done my very best to hide it. You can just sense things from other people can't you.

Like, he initiates contact between us far more than I do (if you go by messaging etc.) I start less conversations and I end more. And yet I still know I want him more than he wants me. I'm sure he knows that too.

Could be. I used to think it must be SO obvious when I was into someone, and then I’d find out later they were completely oblivious.

Anyway, none of that alters your situation, and I’m glad you’ve found some resolve.

Aaaand here he is. Like clockwork. We last messaged Sunday evening. I left the conversation. Didn't hear from him yesterday. This evening I've just had a message. Apparently it's going to get warm again.

This is his pattern. Two days, a day and a half... and he'll get back in touch. With a nothing (perhaps a slight hint that it's gearing up to be a good weekend to do the garden.) And usually I answer after a careful half hour or so, so I don't look like I'm waiting on his message (I am.)

But today I'm going to ignore. I've had enough of this bullshit.

I really don't know if he's thinking about it as much as you think he is. He's not psychic and I would bet my left foot that he doesn't know you're desperate. "Careful half hour?"
I would stop playing games and just be honest with him.

No he knows what he is doing
He’s bored and Op talks to him!
If he was really into it he would make the effort

Menora is right. I know she is.

He has done nothing to deserve any honesty. Just ignore and let it fade out gradually. If you don't 'bite' to his conversational gambits he will eventually stop.

Meanwhile, make sure you appear happy and confident anytime you are in a group situation together. Treat him like a kid brother, not ignore exactly but without that edge of attention to what he is doing anytime.

Good on you for spotting that you are just an option for him. Get your attention elsewhere.

Come onto the dating thread! It’s really good group of people. Even if you don’t want to fully date it’s a good thread

Ok thanks, I'll have a look

He does not think of you as more than a fuck buddy. He’s using you, he doesn’t actually care about you or your feelings. I cannot understand why you let him treat you like this, it’s like you don’t give a fuck about yourself, like you’re not worth anything. Stop letting him use you.

But today I'm going to ignore. I've had enough of this bullshit

Tell him to FUCK OFF. He’s being a twat.

Well, I don't think I'm 'worth' more or less than anyone else. But of course I care about myself.

I don't like this concept of worth and value. He could be wining and dining me and buying me diamond rings and phoning me every night to tell me how much he loved me and I would still be 'worth' no more or less than I am now. Women that men want relationships and marriage with are not worth intrinsically more than women they would prefer just to have a casual relationship with.

The question is, am I happy? Do I like this situation? Another woman might be and it wouldn't mean she was worthless. I'm not happy though. So I'm going to be making some changes.

Did you ignore the last message op?

Yes, banghead I did. I just didn't open it for hours (went to catch up on Killing Eve and eat some peanut butter Haagen Dazs instead) because I knew if he saw it was read early in the evening and I didn't answer, I'd then have to likely deal with another message asking was I ok, was I ignoring him etc etc.

So I read it quickly as I was going to bed, logged off, and went to sleep. I expect I will hear from him today again.

It’s not about your worth vs someone else’s worth
It’s about worth in terms of;
Your time
Your respect
Your self esteem
The values you have morally and as a person

If someone abuses/uses these then they are disrespectful. If you allow someone to trample on your ‘worth’ then you aren’t caring for your own value as much

It isn’t that he is not worthy of you, you aren’t acknowledging your own worth and going hold on... he’s wasting my time, he doesn’t seem to care about me very much. He values HIS worth more than he respects yours.

You need to have worth and value to stop yourself getting abused. The moment you stop believing in worth and value you leave yourself open to those who think very highly of themselves but little of others

You might not believe in worth and value but it is how society operates - you can’t just dismiss it.

2 people in a FWB relationship are not worth less than a married couple
But if one person (you) isn’t valuing yourself, and your FWB doesn’t value you either = inequality
Same as in a bad marriage

It's only the inequality aspect that is the issue though, honestly. I don't want to marry him. I'd be happy to see him only once a week.

The issue is (like I said in my OP) that he has had two opportunities where he could have spent time with me and he let them both go past without asking, whereas I would have jumped at the chance to see him.

It's humiliating. When I think of the time we have spent together previously - sex sessions lasting hours, multiple times all through the night, all over my kitchen in every position you can imagine. I let myself be really uninhibited as I thought it was passionate, I thought it was hot between us. I have said as much to him. And it turns out he's all meh and take it or leave it. I feel really embarrassed tbh.

I just hate the implication that worth is ascribed only to women who are 'relationship' and 'wife' material (either in their own or men's eyes) and that the rest of us are worthless as we are for sex only. I find it misogynistic and redolent of the old madonna/whore complex.