He's neither in nor out and I don't want to fall out over it.

[Limbolimbo777]

Advice needed please. I had a fairly tumultous relationship of a few months that broke up in early December. But we never really left each other's lives (continued to talk and message etc) and recently we have seen eachother a couple of times and slept together.

The last time we spent time together he mowed my lawn and discovered something wrong with the mower. He went home saying he'd be back with the parts needed to fix it. But he didn't say when and I didn't ask.

The issue is this: When we have seen each other recently it has been at my instigation. I want to be sure he really wants to see me again by leaving it up to him now. But two opportunities to see eachother have now passed and he hasn't initiated. Neither have I because I have decided I'd rather not see him again than chase him.

My response has been to back off, because I want to give him room to come to me. I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and I don't want to push. I understand if he is wary about continuing things - we do butt heads. I understand if he has wanted to take some time to think and process.

So I've been giving him as much space as I can whilst being friendly whenever he approaches me. I've not initiated texts or messenger conversations and have ended conversations (in a warm way) to go and do my own thing, waiting for him to reinitiate, and I haven't mentioned seeing eachother again. I thought if he doesn't want to have a big conversation spelling out that he doesn't want to pursue things and would rather they just fizzle out, this gives him plenty of opportunity to just fade away with no conflict. I'd rather that too than have to have a big deep and meaningful that might go badly.

We are part of the same social circle and I want to remain on good terms. So I'm not going to just throw him away and/or block him. We're going to see eachother around and neither of us want any awkwardness, I'm sure.

But whenever I come to the conclusion that he clearly doesn't want to see me again and back off, he reinitiates conversation. He'll flirt and allude to seeing eachother again (making jokes about my lawn), or he'll just make small talk, but he won't ask to see me. And I feel deeply frustrated. I want to see him. I think if I attempted to drive plans forward, they would probably happen, but just for once I want to know that he wants me enough to make things happen himself.

I know him well enough to know that a confrontation along the lines of, 'listen, just be honest with me, I want to know where I stand' will go badly. These conversations make him feel like he's being painted into a corner and they never go well. I'd rather just leave it. But whenever I try, back he comes!

I'm in limbo and don't seem to be able to find a way out. In reality I'm dying to see him again. Help?

I also find it hard to understand his behaviour. It may only be messaging but he often spends a lot of time talking with me. He will make an effort to pull me back when I leave. Posters say it's because he wants sex on his own terms and I accept that. But it seems a lot of effort to go to, to maintain a sexual relationship with a woman you apparently don't fancy. Is sex with a woman you don't fancy worth it?

I think only 1 poster said about not fancying you - he probably does. But not enough to really put the effort in to make you feel valued as a woman, a person, a friend, a sexual partner.

FWB relationships are not devalued compared to marriage, they have their own place in society and can be very fulfilling. But you don’t have an equal FWB with this guy, and sounds like you never have done. It sounded like you were in a RS which was very messy and ended, and after it ended you never had the chat about being FWB or equality. You just slept with him hoping it would become more regular and that him being in contact with you was a sign of that.

This entire situation is down to bad communication

If you want a FWB RS you have to have it with someone who still respects you and you can talk to or it will not work. You will get hurt. There are men who don’t want commitment who will actually be able to have that conversation with you fully. They treat their FWB partner very nicely and it is enjoyable. They still need to respect you though

This mans problems are not your problems and don’t be humiliated by it, I think it sounds like perhaps you were naive and maybe need some more experience/support with making good choices about the people you allow into your life intimately. He sounds like he has taken advantage of the fact he knows you like him and are available and he is probably oblivious to how much it’s hurting you, but he’s got issues with commitment and relationships so has got big boundary walls up around him, not letting anyone in and not willing to even have adult conversations with people about feelings. That’s his problem not yours.

He likes keeping you dangling as a backup because he knows he can reel you in with minimal effort. Plus it's an ego boost to him.

Don't respond to his latest message. There isn't anything in there that actually needs a reply. Wait for the follow-up - which will probably be something along the lines of asking if you are OK.

If that's the case then reply 'yes thanks'. And that's it. No emojis, no asking him if he's OK - just a short, factual response. That'll do for anything else - promises to fix the lawnmower 'no need, I've had it fixed' etc.

Also I worked out a a little while ago that some people are only able to communicate through sex. It’s what makes it so good.

I had a terrible RS that ended badly but the sex was amazing. It did not seem to make sense. But it did - we couldn’t communicate in any other way very well. So we just communicated that way. But it’s not enough really, because you don’t feel valued for anything but your body and sex. When you cannot talk about anything else outside of the bedroom, it won’t fulfil you

I would wait until he messages again and be 'Oh sorry! I meant to reply. How you doing...'

The 'game' you outline above. It can only stay in operation via you being too scared to call him out on what you say he knows he is doing. If he does know, then you absolutely should (mildly) call him out on it, or acknowledge that it's going on - if you can't, he's no friend.

And yes, tell him you got the lawnmower fixed so no need to worry. And ask if he wants to plan a time to meet. Actually put him on the spot with a grin. And when he says no, or dissembles, you say, ok fine - just give me a text when you do want to meet. Why not? Turn the whole thing round on him.

He'll either stop texting, or when he does, you say -'Oh hi. Fancy meeting? It's a bit boring all this texting, when do you want to meet? You don't? Ok, bye, give us a text if you change your mind! Byee'

Why not?

Oh bloody hell, did you lose your self respect along with your inhibitions. This guy is showing the typical behaviour of the worse kind of man. He knows a girl who will drop he knickers on tap and he'll just keep her dangling there as long as he likes because as long as he's getting his dick wet he'll go for the easy option.

Look I can understand the benefits old a FWB type agreement if you're single. It fulfils a need and is relatively safe, but clearly you want more than he is willing to give and as long as you behave like a loyal pup he's happy to give you a pat on the head when it suits him.

This isn't a failure on either parts, you just both want different things.

why are you trying to understand him? You’re not his therapist?

He’s dangling you. if you want to be dangled, happy days. Distance yourself.

Can you mute him or something for 30 days?

& he’s not your friend, who’d want such a shite friend who treats you badly?

DavidBanner that is so rude and so sexist. Sex isn't something that is only for men. It's for the pleasure of both partners? I have sex with him because I want to, and because I enjoy it. Not because I see it as some sort of trade for love and commitment.

The issue is the imbalance of power in the relationship. The inequality of feeling.

But it seems a lot of effort to go to, to maintain a sexual relationship with a woman you apparently don't fancy.

What’s the effort? A lame text every 2.5 days?

I haven't lost anything - including my self respect - by having sex I enjoy ffs.

You say you have sex with him simply because you want to and because you enjoy it. It’s not a trade.

You also say you’re embarrassed because it seems like he could take it or leave it.

If the first part was true, the second part wouldn’t matter.

You need to start being honest with yourself.

Stoic he often spends entire evenings chatting with me. It's only when I back off that he leaves it no longer than a couple of days before prodding me with a lame text to see if I'll respond again. I wouldn't invest that amount of time in maintaining a sexual relationship with someone I didn't fancy.

Mind you, I wouldn't have sex with someone I didn't fancy at all. The thought makes me feel slightly ill to be honest. I know that some men and women can and do though. I've seen plenty of long term married people on here that have to force themselves to maintain a physical relationship with their partners.

No Stoic that's not true. The embarrassment comes from realising that what I thought was really exciting probably wasn't as exciting for him. Not from the fact that he now doesn't want a committed relationship.

You’re still not being honest with yourself.

You are saying that you are having sex because you want to and you enjoy it. It was exciting for you.

But it really matters to you that he is as into it as you are. And clearly he isn’t.

You started this thread on completely the right track. Why are you backtracking? The facts have not changed.

Being honest with yourself is the start of understanding this. Knicker dropping comments are unhelpful. FWB is not something to be ashamed of at ALL. People meeting up for mutual agreement of a fun good time for sex - nothing wrong with it.

you did not have a FWB arrangement in the first place

This is why you feel really rubbish
You had sex with someone who you can only guess whether he even likes or fancies you. You have been guessing from the fact he does text you, that there is an element of interest

Your self esteem was hurt though to bring you here to realise that this makes you feel totally shit. He is making you feel shit. And you are trapped in a place where you cannot even consider bringing this up with him.

Yes, it matters to me that he is as into it as I am. Wouldn't that matter to you? You happy to have sex with someone you find really exciting who is only lukewarm about you?

None of that has anything to do with having a relationship. The reason I'm not engaging with him any further is not because I was hoping for a white wedding (I never wanted that from him - in fact when we were together before Christmas it was him that pushed for the relationship to become more serious than I was up for) but because I know he doesn't now want me as much as I want him. And these things need to be equal, whatever kind of relationship two people are having.

It is making me feel shit, Menora, there is certainly no question about that. I want to be with a man who can't wait to see me!

Nobody is saying you want to marry him. Why do you keep mentioning that? Is that what you are afraid he is thinking?

Yes, it would absolutely matter to me if someone wasn’t into me as much as I was into him. That’s why I said you were completely on the right track. I would have done everything you have done so far.

But NOW, you need to stop responding to his lame fishing texts. Because that’s all they are. Dangling the hook in every couple of days to see if you’ll still bite.

I had a 'relationship' like this once. He was in and out whenever he felt like it with minimal effort on his part. Whenever I called him out on his shitty behaviour, it was, in his words, 'too much drama'. I was made to feel like an idiot because I expected more from something that had gone on for the best part of 18 months. I had to push and push to get him to admit that 'he wasn't ready to take it to the next level' but he was still happy for us to keep shagging. I was walking on eggshells the entire time because I was worried if ever said how I was feeling or made out like we were a couple, I'd upset him and leave. It absolutely destroyed my self respect and made me feel worthless.

OP, I think there's a teensy bit of lying to yourself going on here (I know, because I did the same). Trying to be cool with being FWB because you know that pushing them for something else will make them back off. At least be honest with yourself and him. You deserve the relationship you want even if it's not with him. If he fucks off, then good. It leaves you open for someone else and with your self respect still intact. There's nothing wrong with wanting a proper relationship, don't be the 'cool girl' and never be an option. It lowers your value, boosts his ego and is never worth it in the long run. If you have to go cold turkey and block him to stop him creeping back in, then do it. Sod the rest of the friendship group and him.

I know that's what I need to do, Stoic. I ignored him last night and he'll get no more enthusiastic engagement from me.

If he's any sense, he'll just leave it now. He won't though. For gods sake, the man's an idiot. I'm trying to give both of us an easy out! He gets to avoid a conversation I know he doesn't want to have and I get to avoid the aggro and defensiveness that comes with any attempt to get him to discuss his feelings honestly. We both move away gracefully and silently. He won't take it though. He'll be on at me later about why I'm ignoring him.

Omg I don't want a full time relationship. I'm not lying to myself. I do not want this.

I do want him to want me, and to be as excited about me, as I am him though.

He isn't. That's why this isn't working.

He's just not that into you, as the saying goes. Sorry.

I agree but he's playing you like a fiddle while you wring your hands and wonder why. Its because you're letting him.

Yes why do you keep bringing up the marriage thing? No one here is suggesting that you were trying to coerce him into being your boyfriend. You made it clear to us you wanted a casual relationship and there is nothing wrong or low value about that. It is low value however to engage in it with someone who has barely any respect for you or your feelings

Feelings are natural

I think you have some unhealthy ideas about relationships and before you get into anything else at all you need to really think about this

When we brought up value you instantly went to talking about a Madonna/whore complex. Are you assuming that all men behave like he does and that it’s ok to not talk about feelings like he has been? And that feeling like you can’t talk to him about it is just what you have to do? Put up shut up and take what you can get?

If you want to have sex with a nice man you fancy, the only person who is going to judge you is you. If you have sex with a crap man, he may also judge you - sadly. So the way forward is to not engage with the crap men, in the hope they may suddenly become less crap