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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Does anyone else thing most posters here disproportionately tell women to leave their partners as a default answer?

208 replies

Kemputer · 05/05/2020 13:40

Does anyone else thing most posters here disproportionately tell women who post a thread here to leave their partners as a default answer?

Yes for some that is the obvious response e.g if a woman was being hit by her partner or cheated on etc. But for others, I’m surprised no one takes the couples therapy type approach suggestions of seeing two sides (I know there is bias as it’s only written from 1 side) and working through issues As it’s almost resigning some men as unchangeable and defective for a relationship I guess?

Please no hate - just an observation

OP posts:
category12 · 06/05/2020 10:09

Relatives and friends have skin in the game. A lot of them will be invested in the status quo and will say want they think you want to hear.

emilybrontescorsett · 06/05/2020 10:10

I think a lot f people don't realise just how low their bar is set.
Hearing an outsiders point of view can make the poster realise.
You see it all the time. A couple have children and yet the man cried hardly anything at all with his children. He doesn't get up with them, feed them, get them dressed, washed, educate them, show them how to tidy up, show them how to make lunch, clean and put away the dishes, show them how to operate the washing machine, show them how to peg out the clorhes, take them for a bike ride, pointing out traffic rules, educating them about nature, garden with them, so a board game with them, show them how to make their mum (and others) a drink, do a craft activity with them, do number work with them, watch them perform a dance routine, interact with the games they want to play, show them how to fold the dried laundry, put it into piles, shows them where it all goes, show them how to iron, put it away, put their choice of t.v. Programme on whilst he dusts and hoovers, begin to cook dinner, bath them, read a bedtime story sort out the tv licence, car tax, mot etc.
No I would say rather a lot of men sit on their arse shouting at the wife to stop the kids annoying him, whilst asking watch she is making for lunch and what is she buying his dad for father's day.

emilybrontescorsett · 06/05/2020 10:14

After lockdown there will be an increase your n divorce applications as lots of people realise how very little their oh does.
Oh and before people rush on to proclaim "but my husband works!" So do lots of women AND do all the above and more with their children.

longstockingjayne · 06/05/2020 10:16

@category12 they wouldn’t be great friends or relatives to tell you only what you want to hear.

Somebody’s actual character doesn’t seem to count for much in here, I find that the majority of responses don’t take time to view the bigger picture on minor issues.

category12 · 06/05/2020 10:20

Oh no? You've never held back a bit from saying your opinion to a friend or family member, because you don't want to add to their hurt? You've never helped console them because you know perfectly well they're not going to break up with someone and they'll pull away if you mention it?

longstockingjayne · 06/05/2020 10:23

@category12 if they directly ask for my opinion and honest thoughts (which I have done)...I’ll give them it.

category12 · 06/05/2020 10:25

Good for you. A lot of people don't. A lot of people don't want to be responsible for potentially being the tipping point. A lot of people think they don't want to be the messenger that gets shot.

emilybrontescorsett · 06/05/2020 10:31

Of course people are not brutally honest in real life, they want to spare your feelings. The want to keep the status quo and also, they probably have been conditioned to tolerate the same shit!
Bloody hell I can't count the number of elderly women, many of whom have now died, who ended a moan about their oh with words along the lines of: "but he was one of the good ones, at least he didn't hit me like Joe did to Annie every time he lost at the bookies."
Both my mum's next door neighbours who have now died, once their husbands had died told my mum that their husbands hit them. Did they leave? No, it was considered the norm. They have children who grew up in this environmental their normal will be a husband hitting and abusing his wife. Anything slightly better than this will be viewed as a great marriage. They too have adult children and so the pattern gets repeated.

lazylinguist · 06/05/2020 10:33

But believe me I was in pieces back then and if I'd have left him I wouldn't have the life I have today. I'd have most certainly been told to leave him.

Well yes, at the time you probably should have. I don't think I'd be able to forgive years of abuse. Neither would I be able to put up with years of abuse in the faint hope that my partner might turn out to be one of the very few leopards to change their spots.

If MN's robust ltb advice encourages loads of women to leave abusive relationships, I'd say that's very much worth the risk of the very occasional possibility that one of the abusive men might maybe have changed his behaviour if his partner hadn't left him.

longstockingjayne · 06/05/2020 11:06

@emilybrontescorsett as I said abuse/cheating/anything else as harmful as that is another level. MN is absolutely fantastic for support in those areas when women don’t know where to turn. My post was about less serious issues.

category12 · 06/05/2020 11:16

You were asking whether your dealbreaker issue should stay a dealbreaker issue. It's always tempting to shift our boundaries when they're tested - maybe they are in in the wrong place, only you can be the judge of that - but once you start sliding them, where do you stop? It generally starts with little things.

People here have no skin in the game - there are pros and cons to that. The outcome is, you heard outsider opinions and have made your own decision. I'm struggling to understand what the problem is with hearing the LTBs.

emilybrontescorsett · 06/05/2020 11:36

I don't know any divorced woman who left on a whim.
Some divorced because their husband left for ow or they didn't want to tolerate his adultery.
One was the victim of domestic violence as well as adultery.
One was left virtually penniless and her dh abandoned her.
Thinking about it most involved the man's adultery which the woman was unaware of. She only found out after he decided he wouldn't lower himself to pull his weight at home, or do things with the kids. Why should he be had another woman to fawn over him.

LexMitior · 06/05/2020 11:45

@emilybrontescorsett

Yes that is very sad. Their whole lives defined. This is quite common.

emilybrontescorsett · 06/05/2020 11:46

The point is though if you think someone is good because they don't scream in your face and call you all the names under the sun, then your bar is set too low.
I'm fine with one person tending to do x, y z jobs whilst the other does a, b & c but only if it is a true fair split.
Fwiw my neighbour asked me why it's always me that is doing the planting and weeding in my garden and not my husband. I told her the truth, because I love it, it's my hobby. My hd on the other hand mows the lawn, fixed the fence and gate, puts up the lights. He also does all the cooking from scratch, the laundry, ironing and hoovering. I consider this to be perfect. I hate cooking. I grow what ever herbs he asks me too. He then cooks with them, perfect.
We both make each other drinks.
We are very happy together.
If on the other hand my dh sat on his arse asking what's for dinner when I can't stand cooking I would not tolerate that. I would say I hate cooking we will have to take turns unless you want to take on that role and I will for example do the ironing.
What isn't good is when one person does the majority of the grunt work doesn't like it but yet gets no help from their husband/wife.

Spaceyspacey · 06/05/2020 11:49

I don't think there should be any judgement towards any woman who leaves a marriage she isn't happy in. Everyone knows they're getting advice from strangers on Mumsnet and unfortunately a lot of women on MN know a lot about the various forms abuse takes. I think further shaming women only adds to the problem.

Graphista · 06/05/2020 12:13

@BlingLoving thank you

Also I totally agree with:

very often the woman is doing BOTH jobs

And

often men might have earned the bulk of the income, but women were often in charge of the purse strings

Was also certainly true of my grandparents. I remember being quite shocked at a young age noticing my granda getting home from work and handing over his unopened pay packet (in those days and indeed well into the 90s many people were paid in cash in wee square brown envelopes weekly) straight to my gran, who opened it, portioned off money for him for personal spending ("beer money") and kept the rest.

I brought it up with my mum and to her it was perfectly normal and my other grandparents her in laws did things the same.

These were poor families who had to watch every penny, my grandparents all worked at least 2 jobs each. The women did most of the regular buying - mainly groceries but also children's clothes etc so it made sense they were the ones managing the money.

But...my parents didn't do this. My father controlled the money and still does to a point of financial abuse. It's only in recent years mum has even been told how much they have (they have a LOT of money but it suited dad for mum to think they didn't)

Mum still thinks she "couldn't afford" to leave my dad, she could even if she only had her pension from her job and benefits she would manage because she is completely used to managing on a tight budget and isn't one for spending on herself at all. But nearly 50 years of every day, usually multiple times a day of being told she was stupid, irresponsible, ugly, worthless, incompetent etc has of course convinced her she can not cope without him.

@longstockingjayne maybe you're putting up with behaviour/treatment most others wouldn't? You apply criticism to respondents here in long term relationships as 'probably' not having actually good relationships yet you don't know that the relationships you know of in real life are actually good relationships either.

I know of several marriages/long term relationships that to most others are perceived/believed to be good ones yet I know there's been infidelity, control, abuse...

Relatives and friends have skin in the game. A lot of them will be invested in the status quo and will say want they think you want to hear. also very true.

A couple splitting up can inconvenience and trouble others.

After lockdown there will be an increase your n divorce applications as lots of people realise how very little their oh does. people aren’t waiting until after lockdown. I’ve a few friends are family lawyers/work for them and just around 2 weeks in they were noticing a rise in custom re divorce.

My post was about less serious issues. what do you class as ‘less serious’?

I don't know any divorced woman who left on a whim.

Me neither...but I know plenty of women in miserable relationships believing they can “rescue” or “change” the man.

I know a handful of people still in their first ltr/marriage and it’s a good, equal, happy marriage.

I know a bit more than a handful more in 2nd ltr/marriages where these are good, equal, happy marriages having learned from their 1st marriages what they will and won’t put up with.

A stat often quoted is about 2nd and subsequent ltr being more likely to break up, I think at least one factor for this is people who’ve been through one break up don’t fear it as much and so if there’s bad/unreasonable behaviour they’re less likely to tolerate it.

longstockingjayne · 06/05/2020 14:42

@Graphista no, that wasn’t my point at all. In no way am I saying that responders probably don’t have great relationships...I’m saying their relationships have probably had issues, which is completely normal. No human or relationship is perfect, I just feel that some respondents on here reply as if such a thing exists.

I also wonder about those saying “kick him to the curb” because my boyfriend lied. Perhaps they have been lied to by their own partner and they’re just unaware? Human beings often lie or don’t give their full truth when questioned. If a relationship out there exists where a partner has never ever lied...is this because such a person exists or have the conversations that could lead to that never been instigated?

By less serious issues I mean one time events in an otherwise great relationship that wouldn’t necessarily warrant leaving eg lying/going through a lazy period/money issues.

All just food for thought.

PlanDeRaccordement · 06/05/2020 15:39

I don't know any divorced woman who left on a whim.

They do exist. I know three
One left for the other man, she’d been having multiple affairs behind her DHs back

One left after she’d run up her DHs credit accounts for a richer, older man

One kicked her DH out because he was cycling three hours a week to manage his depression because his brother died of suicide but she felt all hours he was not working should be spent at home with her.

12345kbm · 06/05/2020 15:52

One kicked her DH out because he was cycling three hours a week to manage his depression because his brother died of suicide but she felt all hours he was not working should be spent at home with her.

I call absolute bullshit on this. She divorced her depressed husband, who was grieving the death of his brother because he cycled for 30 minutes a day? No one is that unreasonable and if she was, (big if) he's well shot of her as she sounds completely deranged.

You seem to know a lot of nasty women.

Graphista · 06/05/2020 15:55

@longstockingjayne but it really depends on the whole story -

Eg lying - depends what the person lied about!

Taking the last biscuit - trivial
Meeting an ex - serious

Also if they're repeatedly lying

Ditto "money issues" and "laziness" these can also be serious even abusive

I stand by that I've yet to see anyone advised to ltb for a trivial reason

One left for the other man, she’d been having multiple affairs behind her DHs back - probably for the best. Her dh deserves not to be cheated on and if she kept cheating in all likelihood they weren't compatible

One left after she’d run up her DHs credit accounts for a richer, older man - again I think probably for the best for the dh.

One kicked her DH out because he was cycling three hours a week to manage his depression because his brother died of suicide but she felt all hours he was not working should be spent at home with her - I'm generally against LTB JUST because someone is suffering mental illness BUT in all likelihood you didn't have the full story here. Even I will admit someone with mental illness is hard to live with in several ways.

longstockingjayne · 06/05/2020 16:06

@Graphista yes meeting an ex is serious, texting an ex you miss then is serious, keeping in touch once a month to see how each are getting on...not so much. It was the latter with my issue and got a load of replies saying leave him? No thought that my boyfriends confidence was rock bottom due to his ex calling off their engagement, no thought that they might just be friends and no thought that he was shit scared to tell me as he thought I’d leave if he told me. Possibly due to abandonment issues because of his ex.
There’s sooo much that needs to be known to get a full picture of the scenario.

PlanDeRaccordement · 06/05/2020 16:07

Interesting, so you lot trot out examples of women leaving men where the man is at fault and I just accept your word for it. Because I know IRL that it’s never always the man who is at fault. It can go either way.
You know these people I do not.

But the second I give examples where a woman is at fault for a divorce/relationship break down you immediately

  • tell me you know these people better than I do (which is frankly impossible) and I am mistaken the man deserved it or
  • call BS on it just because

So, based on your scoffing that a woman could ever be at fault or divorce on a whim, is that what you truly believe? That it is always the man’s fault or for his own good to be treated that way?

PlanDeRaccordement · 06/05/2020 16:10

You seem to know a lot of nasty women.

Yes, I do. Because they exist. You’ve never met a bitch? Lucky you.

longstockingjayne · 06/05/2020 16:13

@planderaccordement I also find it interesting how different the responses are when it’s a woman making the same mistake.

My example for instance where my boyfriend lied to me about being friends with his ex. You’re telling me that all those women telling me to leave my boyfriend wouldn’t lie to their partner if they were caught off guard with a question and scared of the repercussions? Even though what they were lying about wasn’t that big a lie? It’s all double standards.

People are complex.

category12 · 06/05/2020 16:15

The point was whether women left "on a whim", not whether they were never at fault, anyway. No-one was saying women are never at fault.