Does anyone else thing most posters here disproportionately tell women to leave their partners as a default answer?

[Kemputer]

Does anyone else thing most posters here disproportionately tell women who post a thread here to leave their partners as a default answer?

Yes for some that is the obvious response e.g if a woman was being hit by her partner or cheated on etc. But for others, I’m surprised no one takes the couples therapy type approach suggestions of seeing two sides (I know there is bias as it’s only written from 1 side) and working through issues As it’s almost resigning some men as unchangeable and defective for a relationship I guess?

Please no hate - just an observation

I first posted about my relationship five years ago and I was told at the time to ltb. I posted again more recently (all under different names) and got told the same thing. I still haven't left but I've got stronger each time and I'm making my plans to get out now. When I very first posted, leaving had never even occured to me. I just hadn't considered it as an option. I was so used to this being my life, I had a feeling something wasn't right but I just didn't know for sure.

I'm fully settled on leaving now - five years on from hearing my first ltb, so nobody could say that I've rushed into it. I don't think many people do rush into it. I think the women who post here are usually at their wits end and the posters who tell them to ltb are generally ones who have been in their shoes and seen it all before. If I'd listened five years ago, I'd have saved myself five unhappy years but I was in such a bad place mentally before and my self esteem was rock bottom. Realising it was an option and being told I should not be treated the way I am has taken a while to sink in. It's really been a slow process but hearing those words was invaluable to me, as I'm sure it is to many of the women who post. Even if they don't leave, at least they know that this isn't how it should be.

I don't think anyone in a happy, respectful relationship is going to walk away from it because someone on MN said ltb. They'll know if the situation they've posted about is a one off or part of a pattern. It's not going to ruin an otherwise happy marriage but it may give a lot of confused and unhappy women the same realisation that it gave me.

I think the ratio of LTBs is much higher on MN than in real life. But that's because by the time you get onto MN to complain or ask the question, things are usually pretty damn bad already. Vs me and a girlfriend having dinner and a gentle rant about our respective DH's not doing enough of the washing up.

People always refer to these threads where LTB is bandied around but I don't see it. I see lots of people offering constructive support and advice. The LTBs happen when the first post is so obviously just the tip of the iceberg and sure enough, inevitably over the next 10 pages more and more comes out. But for those of us who have experienced it, helped people through it in RL or seen it enough online, we can spot it.

The one thing I do agree is that there's sometimes a slightly unrealistic view as to how easy LTB is. The whole, "get your ducks in a row and get ready to go " thing spouted like it's so easy. A woman who this morning was just thinking she was posting for advice on her financial situation isn't going to completely go from that to realising she's in a financially abusive situation and needs to leave after a few posts on the internet over a period of 4 hours.

@NekoShiro
There are time when the OP can say, no I'm not gonna leave over this, I just need some advice on how to handle this situation, and yet the replies will be full of 'you should start getting your ducks in a row and leave'

Agreed.
Although if there is any violence they must leave.

However as another
pp also stated it is important for self reflection.

Sometime the dh is treated very badly by dw and when he then withdraws from the relationship she's upset.

I always think it's takes 2 to tango.

If you can't get to the root of the problem you're doom to repeat it.

I think people expect life ti be perfect all the time.
It isn't and it takes time and work.

Completely disagree. Women are socially conditioned to put up with unacceptable behaviour and treatment, especally when kids are involved.

I feel like you have posted this after reading a thread from a very brave woman who has managed to her her controlling and emotionally manipulative husband to leave. If so, the fact you think she should stick with him and have counselling instead is pretty sick.

I think by the time the poster has come to the point of asking advice about a troubled relationship, the writing is already on the wall.

For some of the issues posted here then maybe councelling or just a good heart to heart would resolve things, but a lot of them have gone way past that point and some things I.e. abuse, mistreatment can never be overcome.

I disagree too, I've been here ages and I can't remember a "ltb" I haven't agreed with.

However, there isn't always a full understanding of the consequences of divorce, financially, practically and regarding dc.

My marriage was shockingly bad, but there are still, years later, some days when I think overall my life would be better if I'd stayed - things like quality of life, sadness, loneliness, dc having to live between 2 homes, being shunned by some school gate mums, the struggle of trying to find a decent man at my stage of life and start all over again.

@ErickBroch I have no idea what thread you are talking about. There’s about 15 new threads on the relationship sub forum every minute. To randomly assume I read a particular one when no reference to it or its theme is made is absurd.

Mumsnet helped me leave an abusive relationship. By the time I posted I was in full cognitive dissonance, minimising it, making excuses, trying to rationalise how it was actually my fault as I was being told. The advice I got here was the first step in seeing it for what it was and getting out of it. And I think that you only try to leave when it becomes harder to try to stay. Reaching that point before you are emotionally, financially & physically destroyed is a very good thing. Overall more good than bad is being done here. No one leaves on a whim.

What @TinRoofRusty said:

I disagree. I think a lot of women put up with awful behaviour due to social conditioning.

MN saved me from an abusive relationship. I kept thinking it was my fault and was always so sorry and insecure, had literally nobody I could talk to. MN helped me realise what was happening and gave me the strength to leave it. I will be forever grateful to those who helped me on here.

I'm one of those posters telling women to leave all the time but then it seems there are a disproportionate amount of knobhead husbands on here... I generally think my comments are justified

I think the ratio of LTBs is much higher on MN than in real life

I agree with this & I think part of the reason for that is that people are afraid to intrude on other’s relationships irl & also people are outright looking for advice on mumsnet.

I think some posters do, OP, but their voices are drowned out by the many more reasoned responses on here.

I have posted a few times over the years understand different names. Yes, some people have said, "he's an arse. Dump him" or whatever. But those aren't the posters I 'listen' to or respond to.

I engage with the ones who talk from their own experiences; who share insights and who reflect back an alternative viewpoint in both directions.

I discovered something very concerning about my husband and posters told me exactly what his next move would be and exactly what to expect next. I found it hard to accept because how could they know him? Or what he'd do? Or what his next move would be? But they did. They were spot on every step of the way. I got a great deal of support in amongst all the, "just ltb" and it took me 3 days to kick him out. I've never regretted it and it was absolutely the right thing to do!

I have thought on occasiona crew posters are very quick with their ltb! And, tbh, the more they've posted, the more it's clear they're not responding to the OP specifically but are projecting from their own situation which might not be relevant. In many cases, it is.

I agree. LTB - with no thought for the consequences, financial or otherwise.

I can hand on heart say I've never seen a LTB on MN that I haven't agreed with. I also personally don't know anyone in real life who has benefited from couples counselling other than men who are helped to stay in relationships with spouses who are increasingly unhappy. In my experience couples counselling is about conditioning women to accept bad behaviour from men.

I agree, in fact it staggers me how disposable relationships are considered to be

But why shouldn't a relationship be 'disposable'?

If it's not working and you're not happy?

A relationship isnt a life requirement. Yes, a good one is a nice addition but a shit one?

I've seen someone in real life lose her entire family because her need to be in a relationship was so great. The guy didn't treat her well; was a lazy, feckless, unfaithful individual and a convicted child sex offender to boot. But, hey, it was better than being single... I asked her about him once - before I knew half of it - she cried and said no one understood what she'd had to sacrifice to be in this relationship.

Just why? She didnt need to sacrifice any of it. She didn't need to he in a relationship at all. And certainly not one that cost her her children and grandchildren who've had no contact with her for nearly 10 years.

Yes it seems the be the default answer for most.

Absolutely not

I disagree. I think a lot of women put up with awful behaviour due to social conditioning.

I agree with this. I rarely see a LTB that is an overreaction. Do people really think infidelity and physical abuse are the only reasons to end a relationship and that every thing else can be worked on? The descriptions of some of the relationships on here are truly shocking to me - even without infidelity or hitting. No respect, no liking, horrible things said, silent treatment, meanness with money.

Totally agree OP.
LTB seems to be a common answer to quite a few relationship issues on here, some LTBs do strike me as being possibly a bit of an overreaction. There may also be a group of posters who's answer to all posts appears to be LTB. The cynical side of me suspects that some LTB posters lurk on here, awaiting the chance to LTB and then watch the ensuing chaos unfold in the person's life.
And no I can't think of the specific posts, and no I can't be bothered to find them, but they're here and you know it!
I DO NOT THINK THAT LTB IS WRONG ADVICE IN ABUSE CASES.
Obviously where there's abuse etc LTB is good advice, and I've seen that such advice is critical to victims from posts on here. I'm often impressed with the good practical advice victims of abuse get.
Having heard some of the stories on here I am in no way surprised that LTB is some posters first piece of advice in any situation, I guess its better safe than sorry, and maybe they see a dangerous behavior that I don't!

I think that at the point where the Op decides to post on MN, things are really bad.
Therefore, the LTB response is usually the appropriate response

I think there is too much taking the poster at their own evaluation without any critical thinking.

So a poster says their H does xyz, which they believe is abusive/unreasonable etc.

No questioning on how the poster actually treats their H on a daily basis.

'a woman was being hit by her partner or cheated on etc'
This is such a low bar.

Coercive control has such a deleterous affect on self esteem and wellbeing.
It is also illegal.

MNers giving advice in line with the legal definition of coercive control is fine, I think.

Why would we not support people who are experiencing coercive control? Why roll the clock back and focus only on physical abuse?

Mediation and couples counselling dont work where abuse is present - all forms of abuse, not the ones you personally condemn

As it’s almost resigning some men as unchangeable and defective for a relationship I guess?

The thing is though, that the majority of men seem to have been taught that it's the woman's job to fix their defects, work on the relationship, etc. Most women work really hard to help the men they're with - they usually come on here after having exhausted all their resources.

You'll see it time and again, the woman talks about bad behaviour, she's advised to direct him to counselling so that he can have a go at changing. And almost every time, the woman comes back to say he's flat out refused.

So what is she to do then? There isn't much left but to LTB.

It's sad, but them's the breaks, women can't be emotional McGuyvers for men. We can only do so much. After that, it's time to get on one's bike, as they say, or resign oneself to a lifetime of misery with a grumpy old man who will not deal with his own issues...

Also - a pretty small percentage of women are MH professionals, how are they supposed to help all these men who, like children, seem unable to take responsibility for themselves emotionally? What about women whose strengths are in other areas, are they also supposed to stay with these helpless men and pour out their lives trying to "save" them? How successful is that going to be, for anyone?

The high rate of LTBs is really down to those factors I think - men who think women are supposed to do the emotional work, women who have done the emotional work to no avail, and women coming here to get permission to finally give up. I don't think that's unreasonable really.

Please be gentle with me, but I have some sympathy with the OP. I've been married for 20 years and we've had our ups and downs, but we've stuck together and raised a happy family. It's definitely not perfect, but she'd be devastated if I left her because of any of the following reasons:

1. She's not interested in sex anymore.
2. She is a terrible communicator when we have problems to deal with.
3. She doesn't take good care of herself, very overweight.
4. Very prone to mood swings
5. Gets very stressed out at work and brings her anger and frustration home to be taken out on me.
6. Spends money we haven't got and often hides it from me.

If I was to post any one of those challenges on here, as if I was a woman complaining about a man, I would be advised to LTB within the first few posts. Actually, reading that list myself now, I kind of wonder what the heck I'm putting up with

However, I know I'm not perfect and there's probably times in the past 20 years she could have posted things about me and you'd have told her to LTB.

Perhaps the answer is that plodders like me and her find a way through life's ups and downs and should avoid posting on Mumsnet!

@yepimaman

Well if you’ve tried do address those things you list and got nowhere, then why can’t you leave?

The women who post here normally haven’t the clarity to set it out like you. So they seek advice.