Does anyone else thing most posters here disproportionately tell women to leave their partners as a default answer?

[Kemputer]

Does anyone else thing most posters here disproportionately tell women who post a thread here to leave their partners as a default answer?

Yes for some that is the obvious response e.g if a woman was being hit by her partner or cheated on etc. But for others, I’m surprised no one takes the couples therapy type approach suggestions of seeing two sides (I know there is bias as it’s only written from 1 side) and working through issues As it’s almost resigning some men as unchangeable and defective for a relationship I guess?

Please no hate - just an observation

Yes I’ve often thought that OP. Even when someone is most likely just blowing of steam after a classic squabble, mumsnet always says LTB. It was a revelation reading the thread a while back by divorcees who regretted leaving.

@nomore I take your point. But at the same time I could have ended up with a new bloke with a whole other set of problems. But you're right - my DH doesn't sit on the sofa scratching his arse so yes it probably doesn't compare to women who literally do everything whilst their dh fiddles with his nethers zapping zombies on x box!

But that's the whole point, isn't it, Brownyblonde? There's nothing wrong with that division of workload if you're genuinely happy with it. Nobody's going to tell you to ltb for having a pink/blue set-up if you have chosen to!

The thing is, women have it hard enough as it is. I have found that even if their partner helps out with the children, it is often physically, rather than emotionally (not saying there aren't men out there that don't, just an observation of friends families).
Add that to the fact that we tend to support our friends and often other family members emotionally, as well as work or full time parent, and we essentially have the shit end of the stick. We are the emotional labourers. Why in hell would a woman want to add more stress to her life by having to put up with a man who makes life even more difficult or stressful?
The best we can hope for is a man who we at least feel is doing his absolute best, because life is bloody hard enough as it is.
Oscar Wilde said it best. He observed that women are expected to be a cleaner, a cook, a Mother, a lover and a whore.
That's five pissing roles for one woman, not taking into account that many women also work.
Settling for a man who simply contributes a wage and spends every other waking hour gaming, sulking or otherwise acting like another child to add to her load is just not going to cut it for women these days, nor should it.

To be honest I can't understand why most women with the complaints they have, haven't left sooner rather than allowing themselves to be treated like crap

It's not that easy to just leave. Money issues are a massive reason so many women stay in abusive relationships. Unless you're a high earner it's impossible now to live alone. eg. If i had to leave now there would be nowhere or no one i could go to. The only option would be a flat share set-up therefore going back to square one.

@lazylinguist my original point was though that my husbands behaviour 5 years ago was definitely abusive (emotionally) he had issues from first marriage. 5 years down the line he's learnt a lot. He doesn't behave that way today. But believe me I was in pieces back then and if I'd have left him I wouldn't have the life I have today. I'd have most certainly been told to leave him

I do think Mumsnet threads are unusually unanimous in the opinions of the posters in them. On other sites you will get a fair bit of debate and disagreement within a topic, but here the first few posts almost always set the tone of the rest of the thread. I think there is a bias towards ending relationshios as a result as a lot of the regular Mumsnet posters are of that mindset.

By the time someone posts here, their rs is pretty much over in many cases.

This forum isn't one that encourages women to continue eating shite sandwiches. Far too many others do.

@lazylinguist my original point was though that my husbands behaviour 5 years ago was definitely abusive (emotionally) he had issues from first marriage. 5 years down the line he's learnt a lot. He doesn't behave that way today. But believe me I was in pieces back then and if I'd have left him I wouldn't have the life I have today. I'd have most certainly been told to leave him

But maybe you'd have a different equally good life and wouldn't have had to tolerate 5 years of emotional abuse and both of you wouldn't have had to have a hideous time.

Basically I think adults should sort out their major issues which are likely to make them abusive to the person they supposedly love more than anyone in the world before they get into a relationship - not during it. They shouldn't spread the pain.

I'm really glad it all worked out for you but that doesn't mean that another woman in a marriage to someone who is emotionally abusive wouldn't be better off just getting out.

I think there is a bias towards ending relationshios as a result as a lot of the regular Mumsnet posters are of that mindset.

I suspect a lot of women who say "do not tolerate that" are actually in very good, long-term relationships. They know what their standards are and are shocked at what women tolerate. I've been married for more than 25 years very happily. I couldn't conceive of leaving my husband but then I couldn't conceive of him doing any of the stuff I read about regularly on here. Even the pink/blue thing. We have a similar set-up with household stuff. It suits us. but dh has no expectation of a dinner being on the table for him. He would never complain if there wasn't. If he said "where is my dinner?" my jaw would drop.

No I really don't.

By the time a woman is posting a thread on here about her partner/husbands unreasonable behaviour in the vast majority of cases it's a "final straw" deal and he's been treating her like shit for ages!

Even when the op is seemingly of a trivial complaint once the thread progresses and op updates it becomes apparent that there's a whole list of bad behaviour and some of it even abusive - posters tend not to start with the worst stuff.

Also physical violence and cheating are not the only forms of abuse and unreasonable behaviour that nobody should have to put up with.

I would say if anything we need to work harder to inform women that it isn't a required part of adulthood to be in a relationship.

I've been mostly happily single for the last 17 years.

Indeed nobody should feel they have to stay in a relationship even if it's something as benign as having fallen out of love with their other half.

Why do you think women should stay in unhappy relationships? Should compromise their happiness, mental & physical health to do so?

What relationship problems do you consider "fixable"?

I've also seen women tell us about men who've cheated on them and are destroying the OP's sense of self with lies and deceit and gaslighting. I think women are better off without men like that. repeated infidelity and the subsequent gaslighting etc is abuse too.

I've repeatedly asked those who claim "Ltb" is advised too quickly and too lightly to link to the threads where they think this is the case... yet to have one do so

You seem fixated on physical abuse op - as the daughter of a marriage that was abusive in EVERY Way I would say the emotional abuse is FAR more damaging and harder to deal with/recover from. Not least because when the abuser becomes incapable of physical abuse eventually they can still continue the emotional. It's the emotional abuse that traps most victims.

In my experience couples counselling is about conditioning women to accept bad behaviour from men. totally agree

But why should it matter? If the poster treats their husband well then there's no excuse for his behaviour and she should leave. If the poster treats their husband badly and is treated badly in return, it sounds like they're incompatible. Exactly - either way the relationship is miserable

I'd actually say standards of expected behaviour from men are in certain ways are far lower than they've ever been. Ime men under the age of about 35-40 are not only entitled in a relationship sense but are far lazier and more workshy than previous generations.

@Brownyblonde but as long as you're both contributing equally in terms of jobs done I think that's ok. On the "1950's husband" threads I often argue this, that actually the couples of previous generations (I'm particularly thinking of my grandparents) May have had the jobs divided along gender lines BUT the men did just as much as the women and often grafted in manual jobs working long hours.

Unless you're a high earner it's impossible now to live alone nonsense!

@Kemputer YES! I could not agree more! I have posted a few things recently and regretted it completely because everyone's default advice is to run!

I won't go into details of my situation but it completely doable but everything seems to get a negative response

I won't go into details of my situation but it completely doable but everything seems to get a negative response

Have you ever asked yourself why everyone's advice is to run? Do you think it is more likely that MNers want to break up relationships for the sheer fun of it or that something in what you post about your relationship is raising very red flags for a lot of other women?

yes because mumsnet hate men

yes because mumsnet hates shitty, abusive men
Corrected that for you.

Most posters who are told to leave are in abusive or horrible relationships.
I don't see you you would think that is a problem?

I don't hate men. I've just a very low tolerance for anyone who treats other people badly or makes them feel shit about themselves. HTH.

No I don’t.

These threads will always have posts claiming they’ve seen posters told to LTB because the husband didn’t say hello to his wife or something ridiculous. But nobody is ever able to link to these threads.

Most posters who are told to LTB are in abusive relationships and you don’t go into therapy with your abuser, the abuser uses it as yet another stick to beat the partner with.

I have read many many threads where I’ve been left with cold terror at how blasé the OP is at being treated really badly because she has been conditioned to believe this is normal.

I may be amongst the few people who would walk out at the earliest sign of abuse, I don’t hate myself enough to try and fix a man who is abusing me. It’s not my place or within my capabilities and frankly who wants to be an emotional and physical punch bag.

I doubt any single poster has walked out of a healthy happy marriage on the say so of MN.

I doubt any single poster has walked out of an abusive marriage on the say so of MN.
But if a chorus of LTB, has made a woman sit up and realise what she is enduring is not normal or acceptable and has set her on the path of deciding for herself to choose to not put up and shut up. Well good.

The first thing you never say to anybody who is being abused is to leave, because then they won’t and then they won’t come back to you for advice

Men that post here are often given a tough time, even when it's not deserved.

I would tend to say yes, but it's usually justified. A lot of the threads in relationships are from women in abusive, controlling relationships.

*if I left her because of any of the following reasons:

1. She's not interested in sex anymore.
2. She is a terrible communicator when we have problems to deal with.
3. She doesn't take good care of herself, very overweight.
4. Very prone to mood swings
5. Gets very stressed out at work and brings her anger and frustration home to be taken out on me.
6. Spends money we haven't got and often hides it from me.*

Some people will accept less for the sake of staying together or because they think they won’t find better/ or feel they are less worthy and others won’t. It’s about finding where your line is but every one of the above listed, would be a red line for me. If the price for staying in a relationship is losing your sense of self, then imho, it’s too damn high.

At the end of the day, I have to live with me. Yes I was financially fucked after I ended it with my Ex but I can safely say that staying in the relationship and putting up with stuff I know made me unhappy would have messed with my MH.

Funnily enough wanting DD to have a strong relationship role model was the the driver for me. The answer to the simple question of, ‘would you advise your child to stay in your relationship’, says a lot. Because of DD, I raised my standards.

Ltb should always be an option it doesn’t mean that you should or will but it should always be an option.

I agree OP that LTB is posted too often given the situations described.
I have to wonder how many MNers have a string of failed relationships behind them. Many seem unusually bitter and prejudiced against men.

But since LTB is so common on here, I am sure the majority of responses to your thread will continue to be defensive of this. I just find it a bit arrogant one comment upthread that essentially said if a person is seeking relationship advice on mumsnet, then that alone is proof she is in an abusive relationship! When you have that much of a biased perspective, then whatever you read in their OP will only confirm that bias.

I see many posters are saying we set the bar too low. But I feel we perhaps set it too high... E. G my DH doesn't cook. Ever. We have pink and blue jobs - we're stereotypical in our male / female roles. He has certain expectations of me (that I'll have our dinner cooked every night) and I have certain expectations of him (my cars broken - he'll fix it) I can't be arsed with gardening. I'll leave that to him. Food shopping needs doing - that's my job. We both work. It works for us. Not very modern but our marriage works

@Graphista: but as long as you're both contributing equally in terms of jobs done I think that's ok. On the "1950's husband" threads I often argue this, that actually the couples of previous generations (I'm particularly thinking of my grandparents) May have had the jobs divided along gender lines BUT the men did just as much as the women and often grafted in manual jobs working long hours.

I completely agree with Graphista. The blue/pink split isn't the issue. the issue is that IME very very often the woman is doing BOTH jobs. And I've heard men say sneeringly, "well, if she's such a feminist, she can take out the garbage/do the DIY". (and yes, I've immediately jumped in to ask if he is then doing the cooking/cleaning/shopping).

Similarly, I think in the past, often men might have earned the bulk of the income, but women were often in charge of the purse strings. Not aways, obviously, but as the bulk of costs were at home which was the women's domain, she'd manage pay.

I couldn't care less how people split the load. I just find it amazing when women are literally running around from 6am to 10pm while their husbands lie in every day, swan off to work, return at 7 and sit on the couch because they're so tired.

I totally agree!

My last post about my partner lying to me received a lot of LTB responses, which I was surprised at. A lot of assumptions are made...it’s always ‘a bad person has done a bad thing’ approach rather than a ‘good person has messed up’...type of approach. Relationships take work and there’s going to be bumps in the road and mistakes will be made. With issues like what I posted I don’t think MN users are very good at thinking about how humans behave and just write people off as b***.

I also find it interesting as to how MN advice compares to real life advice. I’ve spoken to my friends and family, all with long term successful healthy relationships or marriages, and it’s completely different advice to the majority I’ve received here. I think for non cheating/abuse/any other major issues...the advice on here can be a little OTT. I laugh a little at some of it as it seems that the people replying have such perfect relationships where bad things never happen...get real, your relationship has issues just like everyone else’s.