Does anyone else thing most posters here disproportionately tell women to leave their partners as a default answer?

[Kemputer]

Does anyone else thing most posters here disproportionately tell women who post a thread here to leave their partners as a default answer?

Yes for some that is the obvious response e.g if a woman was being hit by her partner or cheated on etc. But for others, I’m surprised no one takes the couples therapy type approach suggestions of seeing two sides (I know there is bias as it’s only written from 1 side) and working through issues As it’s almost resigning some men as unchangeable and defective for a relationship I guess?

Please no hate - just an observation

yepimaman

But that sounds thoroughly miserable and dysfunctional for both of you.

I would certainly expect someone to leave me if I displayed those behaviours.

More than that, I'm wondering what the hell I'm doing wrong since I don't display any of them and am terminally single!

no, I don't agree with the OP. I think mumnsetters generally give very clear, proportionate advice. The amount of shit people put up with from their partners is incredible. And no, it doesn't have to be violent or cheating to be intolerable.

And in fact, you can just leave a relationship if it isn't working for you - life is too short.

I have been in bad relationships, and I have either not told my friends the whole story, or they are less directive about leaving relationships (perhaps because they have their own baggage) - here, maybe because you can be more honest, and because people don't know you, you do get very clear advice.

I think mumsnetters are a good yardstick for what a relationship should be.

My observation is that posters are very often more gung-ho when it comes to other people's lives. People are exhorted to LTB, go NC, home school/change schools, divorce and generally bungee jump into the unknown all the time.

A lot of the replies supposedly disagreeing with the OP are not really. The fact that there are a lot of threads where LTB IS the obvious and justified response, and that it's been useful for the people posting those threads to hear it, doesn't mean that there isn't also a significant number where it's used too glibly.

I tend to agree with the OP in one sense: People quick on the trigger to LTB often don't seem to consider the complications and reasons for not doing so. It's been mentioned that people are likely to be posting here because a problem has progressed to a certain level of serious and that may be true. But it's also true that they've chosen to post here rather than simply end the relationship already, and they often say outright what the reasons are holding them back. Some of those reasons - particularly where children are involved - can be compelling, yet people often seem to sweep them aside as if their nothing.

I certainly don't think the old fashioned idea of staying in a marriage no matter how toxic "for the children" is a good one. But neither is the kind of upheaval in a child's life and the effect on their well being and future as simple a factor as those three little letters sometimes seem to pretend.

I think there is too much taking the poster at their own evaluation without any critical thinking.

So a poster says their H does xyz, which they believe is abusive/unreasonable etc.

No questioning on how the poster actually treats their H on a daily basis.

But why should it matter? If the poster treats their husband well then there's no excuse for his behaviour and she should leave. If the poster treats their husband badly and is treated badly in return, it sounds like they're incompatible.

it’s almost resigning some men as unchangeable and defective for a relationship

It isn't any woman's job to fix a man.

It is almost always easier to leave a man than to change him, x1000 if you don't have kids.

No I don’t.

Women put up with truly awful behaviour from men in the name of holding on to their relationship. And often tolerate relationships which are not abusive or unfaithful but just don’t make them happy.

All because thousands of years of patriarchal brainwashing have convinced us it’s the pinnacle of achievement as women to be attached to a man.

You don’t win prizes for making yourself miserable in the name of maintaining your couples status.

When people post on here asking for advice it is usually after many months if not years of wondering if they are “allowed” to leave. Very often having a sane stranger tell you that you’re not obliged to stay yoked to someone just because society tells you should accept it can give you the push you need to think about what you actually want.

On balance reading these threads I think we need to learn to say ltb more, not less.

OP I hear you, however people rarely change once you are into adulthood. Everyone deserves to be happy and you can’t force yourself to have feelings for someone once those feelings are gone. Life is too short

@yepimaman your post is a bit irrelevant because if your relationship is objectively crap but you're ok with that, then all the LTBs in the world won't change that, and nor would you ever ask for advice anyway.

The people who aren't ok with that are the ones that this post applies to, surely? The ones who aren't plodders and would like a change. Which may include LTBing.

I think there's a sound attitude here that there's no need to put up with twattish behaviour from men. We don't need to put up with it, so if they're crap, bin them.

I think it's a great ethos to encourage women to not put up with arseholes.

@yepimaman that sounds shit and dysfunctional and definitely falls into the life's too short to be unhappy camp

If you have children, you should be thinking what model of relationships you are showing them, and I would say you move into the LTB camp.

There are lots of people who come on here and say "i can't leave". you can always leave.

I agree with you. There's some people who are quick to read any situation as an abusive one to the point where anything results in LTB.

Eg. Man does chores around the house but doesn't load the dishwasher the same way as the OP and does chores in a different order. The OP is irritated by this and has a bit of a rant on AIBU. Within a page several posters will have said "is he always this controlling? It sounds like he's deliberately being incompetent at household chores so you'll give up and do them for him. Get your ducks in a row and start making an exit plan."
Most people accept everyone has their own way of doing household jobs but on here if a guy does it differently to the OP then he's clearly trying to shove the OP into maid role.

You see the same on contacting colleagues, friends of the opposite sex, people having hobbies outside the house etc. Some posters will insist on using the stupid "here come the cool wives" line to dismiss any suggestion that other relationships might be healthy and respectful whilst both parties manage to text colleagues, have friends of the opposite sex, not go through each others phones or emails, enjoy hobbies outside the house.

However there's also some terribly low standards in places here as well where the answer to anything is "maybe he's just tired from a busy day at work, why don't you cook him a meal, give him a massage and have a sexy night in... Maybe that will solve him being a sulky arsehole for not getting sex daily whilst he does no chores and plays his silly video games".

As I’ve said in my original post, there are situations e.g infidelity and physical abuse that are definitely things a woman should leave. Think some people missed that part

Is that where your line is? It's quite low.

^I think there's a sound attitude here that there's no need to put up with twattish behaviour from men. We don't need to put up with it, so if they're crap, bin them.

I think it's a great ethos to encourage women to not put up with arseholes.^

I agree. It's also ultimately up the poster if she herself deems the situation bad enough that she wants to end the relationship. The only trivial LTBs that I have seen however, are the joke ones in AIBU!

I disagree. I think a lot of women put up with awful behaviour due to social conditioning.

I agree. And it was by reading MN that I realised I was living with an abuser. Emotional and verbal abuse mainly, but it was still abuse, and I still suffer MH issues as a result.

Ther have been posts on the thread that suggest people are too quick to leave a relationship because we should be willing to fix things and work for it.

But in reality, who are the ones expected to fix things? Women, of course. And who are the primary beneficiaries if things are fixed? Men, because it's usually 'fixed' by the women changing themselves.

I've seen far too many threads from women twisting themselves to accept the blame for the men's crap so that their relationship carries on, on his terms.

If more women were willing to stand up and say "I'm no longer putting up with this shit", then perhaps relationships on the whole would get better. Life is too short to put up with crap.

As I’ve said in my original post, there are situations e.g infidelity and physical abuse that are definitely things a woman should leave. Think some people missed that part

I think you are the one who has missed things. I suggest you start looking at sites like Womens Aid for more information on abuse, because physical abuse is not the only type.

My ex didn't hit me, but his abuse was bad enough, emotional, verbal, financial, sexual. I've never really admitted that last one, it's been hard to talk about or write about.

And sometimes, an OP will post something that looks trivial on the surface, but when questioned has added more information that makes it clear that the trivial thing is just the tip of the iceberg.

No. Because a partner doesn't have to be violent or extremely abusive in order to have a negative effect on your life. Your partner just being generally 'not very nice' is a plenty good enough reason to leave them, whether you are married or not. And personally, I don't really believe that marriage counselling cures people from not being nice. Tbh I'd rather have been single all my life than be married to the vast majority of men described in threads on the Relationships board.

If anything I think that a lot of the hand-wringing on here about whether something counts as abuse is pretty pointless. What does it matter what you call it if you are being made unhappy by the behaviour? It's almost as if some women believe they are not entitled to leave unless it's officially abuse.

When I posted a few years ago (different user name) about my then DP I was told LTB over about 5 pages of replies. Some more measured responses which were kinder and did give me practical steps to help me. But the brutal LTB responses also helped me because it made me realise I did need to take this more seriously and it was not ok to be treated that way by a man or indeed anyone. If I'd just been given the gentler replies I wouldn't have realised how serious the issues were.

I think you also need to bare in mind that a lot of mumsnetters were the children in these damaged relationships and see the long term effects. A bad relationship can cast long shadows.

As PP have said violence or sexual abuse is the tip of the iceberg. there are many more death by a thousand cuts types of abuse or mistreatment that a partner or children should not have to accept as normal.

I guess I was lucky to be raised by a lone parent in that I know a woman can raise a family alone, its not easy but it can be done, and a child is happier in a secure content single parent set up than a problematic traditional nuclear family.

We have such very low standards of behaviour for men, many women and men will frequently fail to see an issue with some behaviours. It certainly doesn't mean they're acceptable. It means your standards are too low.

Whenever my mum mainly but now anybody within my earshot says such and such is a great dad because of x, y and z, I ask why they haven't said the wife is a great mum because she does the same. Because our standards for men are on the floor. Man feeds children. Hero.

If I had posted about how my DH behaved in our marriage about 5years ago it'd have been called emotional abuse I'm certain of that. Absolutely certain of it. If I had of left I'd have totally fucked up my life and obliterated a solid and happy marriage 5 years on. I've also had an alcohol problem (now successfully sober) my DH would have also been told to leave me too through some of my drunken behaviour. My beautiful children would never have been born. We've had a hideous time through both of our traits but after working through our issues we're stronger than many married couples and live a wonderful life. Yet at the beginning my DH was a scarred man and treated me terribly. I fir one am glad I did not leave.

I realise my story is an exception to many but ups and downs and getting over difficult and painful things are sometimes (not always) part and parcel of marriage. I'm not of course talking about men and women that terrorise their partners systematically.

I see many posters are saying we set the bar too low. But I feel we perhaps set it too high... E. G my DH doesn't cook. Ever. We have pink and blue jobs - we're stereotypical in our male / female roles. He has certain expectations of me (that I'll have our dinner cooked every night) and I have certain expectations of him (my cars broken - he'll fix it) I can't be arsed with gardening. I'll leave that to him. Food shopping needs doing - that's my job. We both work. It works for us. Not very modern but our marriage works

Absolutely yes. Also telling posters to go no contact with close family members for the most minor things. I'm quite new to MN and find it all quite mental. I keep asking friends, colleagues and family if they go on it and none do. I find people here v strange compared to my demographic

And sometimes, an OP will post something that looks trivial on the surface, but when questioned has added more information that makes it clear that the trivial thing is just the tip of the iceberg.

@MulticolourMophead Good point. In loads of the threads that go on for a while we find out that the OP's partner isn't just crap with the children, he's an alcoholic, or molests her etc etc. So by the end the OP might be considering LTB because the thread has become a catalogue of how dodgy he is, and it helps her see the situation more clearly.

I think you also need to bare in mind that a lot of mumsnetters were the children in these damaged relationships and see the long term effects. A bad relationship can cast long shadows.

@MrsDoylesTeaBags also true.

@Brownyblonde I get what you mean, but your life without him might've been even better and/or you might've met someone even more adorable.

Yes the division of labour works for you as people, it mightn't work for someone else. Also, it doesn't sound like the bloke is mostly sat on his arse to the extent of a lot of the blokes we see described on here.