What would you call this behaviour??

[JungleJane11]

Don't usually post in here but really need the input.
I wanted to know what word(s) you would use to describe the DP's behaviour, because I need some perspective on it.

I'll give an example of how today's one unfolded:
I started the Couch to 5k challenge today, did my first set of intervals while the kids napped at lunchtime. Within half an hour of me returning, he starts talking about how he needs to do exercise too, maybe he'll do the challenge too, maybe we can compete with each other etc. Now I knew for a fact that he would start saying he wanted to do it as well, or starting talking about how he needs time to exercise too (he has never worked out as long as we've been together), I just thought that he would allow me even the first few days of it to myself before starting his usual antics. He then goes on to say that he'd "love" to do it (he fucking hates running) but he wouldn't want to inconvenience all of us because now I'm doing my "running thing", and someone has to mind the kids while the other person exercises, and he might do it in the evening when they're in bed but that is "so late" then.

Now that might seem like a non-issue to you as you read it, but apply this behaviour to absolutely everything that I suggest I might do; a new activity, go for a walk, meet a friend etc etc. Every. Single. Thing. He will, within a very short space of time, assert that he wishes to do it too (meet HIS friends or whatever) and then he will very often express that he "cant" now because I'm doing something.

He has ALWAYS been this way. It has made me lose the motivation to try anything new or arrange meet ups with friends because he will immediately say that HE needs his time too, HE was supposed to meet up with so and so "for ages now" etc etc.

I don't stop him from doing anything he wants to do. I am at home with the kids all the time on mat leave, an extra few hours makes no odds to me if he has something he wants to do.
I really wanted to get back into running but he sucks the joy out of anything I do for me, because he will inevitably start the same shit.

So, what on earth do you call this behaviour???

I also agree with @RandomMess and @Gutterton....

Indifference is what you should be aiming for, in your answer, your tone, your body language.

If he challenges you...don't feed his need for you be worn down by explaining to him what a complete prick he is.

Feign indifference and stick to it.

Indifference is such a powerful tool when dealing with controlling people.

He knows EXACTLY what he is doing.

Deprive his behaviour of oxygen.

Use this energy for you.
To decide what sort of a future you want.

We have your back OP.

Keep posting👍

I’d be a bit cautious about being provocative in the current situation. Deliberately upping the ante and challenging him is going to make him very unsettled and defensive, and possibly become even more controlling, don’t forget he’s used threats of self-harm and illness in the past to garner sympathy.

I think the passive approach with a firm stand on protecting the activities you want to undertake is perhaps best for you and the children.

@Fanthorpe I would tend to steer away from trying to play games or be provocative at all with him. It makes him very unsettled and he would compete with me no end if he thought I was starting that.
Any time I have tried to get ahead of his attitude by being preemptive and sort of lightly calling him out in advance, he has used it as an excuse to call me a lunatic, essentially. So that doesn't really work. His attitude is so ingrained now that he is fully convinced he is exhibiting normal behaviour and I am paranoid.

A lot of people have said I should turn to my family. In the end maybe that's what will happen, but they have been so helpful to us, especially since we had children - providing childcare when I went back to work, helping us to secure our own home last year, allowing us to stay with them rent-free while the sale was going through (which took months). I would feel such shame, embarrassment and disappointment in myself that I have used their time/resources to build a life with such an utter twat.

I would feel such shame, embarrassment and disappointment in myself that I have used their time/resources to build a life with such an utter twat.
But your parents love you. As a parent I'd hate to think either of my DDs were staying with a controlling partner because they felt embarrassed. I'd a thousand times rather they left and were happy, and I'd support them to do that.

I just read this as my daily reflection - emailed to me- and I thought of you as I'd just read your post OP.

This is the time to be slow,
Lie low to the wall
Until the bitter weather passes.
Try, as best you can, not to let
The wire brush of doubt
Scrape from your heart
All sense of yourself
And your hesitant light.
If you remain generous,
Time will come good;
And you will find your feet
Again on fresh pastures of promise,
Where the air will be kind
And blushed with beginning.

Ok so you have called him out on it before and he has upped the anti.

It is all about control and he does know he is doing it. These things become more amplified after DC.

Pleas confide in your good friends and your family IF you think they will be supportive. He has done this at low level which Is so hard to call out.

I would feel such shame, embarrassment and disappointment in myself that I have used their time/resources to build a life with such an utter twat.

I would feel shame, embarrassed and disappointment if my DD stayed in an unhappy situation to keep me happy.

This is v early days for you. You are vulnerable and this is excruciatingly uncomfortable. But if you keep stepping back from your DH, researching, getting support for yourself you will come to terms with it over time. Only then you will feel comfortable opening up to your DP - and by then you will have a plan.

You just need to detach emotionally in your heart and head right now to emotionally protect yourself. That might take a few weeks to withdraw effectively.

Then you need to consider various options that might be in the medium term to set yourself up. You will need to get ahead legally before you say anything to him because you know how vile he will become - his covert abuse will become overt as he will want to punish you through the divorce process.

Sorry am I missing something here? You asked the question about his behaviour & people are already talking about divorce! At no point have you even hinted that your going to leave him. If you still love him & want to stay with him then do what others have suggested & just do your own thing & ignore his nonsense.

I'm sorry that you're going through this. My DH is a bit tit for tat when it comes to looking after the kids & housework etc..

As with many threads the OP has described one event which has upset her and then connected it to a wider problem. Obviously she may decide that it’s easier to carry on. Marriages to men who chip away at your self-esteem and self-worth are gradual, you can just get used to it, until you’ve made so many accommodations there’s nothing left of you.

OP, your parents love you.

Think how much you love your two children.

You never stop loving your children, wanting to help them, no matter how grown up they are.

You always want them safe and happy.

Your parents would want to know.

They would want to support you and give you their best advice.

Give them the chance to at least support you.

Op I was you.

I could never name the behaviour because it was all so subtle and underhand. If I tried to explain it, I sounded like a loon.

Thing is, it escalates over the years. I was where you are when the kids were tiny. Five years later I was in the bedroom silently screaming to myself, knowing it wasn’t right, but still unable to name the control and manipulation.

Two years of counselling later I could name it; and I went. A year after that I am free - and can see it clearly for what it was.

gutterton has nailed it absolutely. Read her posts again. Also: Realising it, understanding it and being able to do something about it is a process, not an event. It takes time, especially when you have kids together.

Keep learning, keep talking on here, read Lundy Bancroft and learn about covert narcissism. Make sure you have a grip on the finances; that you hang on to work if you can; that to stay in touch with friends: that you do what you want to do and don’t lose yourself. Day to day, detach emotionally from the guilt and manipulation - good suggestions on here for how to handle it.

It will get worse as to start to challenge it, but then it will become clearer to you.

Good luck.

I have to say I'm tending to agree with @Eazylife79. He does sound irritating but who isn't at times? What do you love about him @JungleJane11? He could well be the abusive controller that people on here seem to think only you will know that, but please remember in these awful times things may be seen out of proportion. You might just need to find ways of ignoring and handling this behaviour if all other aspects of life with him are good. My DH would love to be in charge around here but I just won't allow it. Obviously if you think he is truly awful and you have stopped loving him then separation may well be the way to go.

It's either jealousy or he just likes your energy and ideas wants to be more like you but has no boundaries.

OP the behaviour you describe will be incredibly familiar to anyone who has been in a relationship with a controlling partner. The shame you feel is very common. But you have nothing to be ashamed of. These behaviours creep in over time - otherwise none of these men would end up married with children.

You need to start talking about this to people you trust. Don't keep his secret for him - although I'd bet good money that it's not as secret as you or he thinks it is. You will feel much better for it.

I totally agree TomPettysTopHat - one of my favourite sayings from MN:

“Sunshine is the best disinfectant”

Shine a light. Flush it out. 100% your family and friends will have have noticed his behaviours.

Speak to someone in RL who has your back. Once you start reading up on this you will have all the specific language that you need to articulate yourself accurately.

There are loads of shades of emotional abuse, so I understand how some terminology will jar with you.

Ime its because when you start doing something it shines a light on his lack of action, in this case his lack of exercise. He knows he should but cba and he doesnt like how that makes him feel so he is trying to put the blame on you. "Well I would exercise but I dont have time as I'm working and then OP is out doing her exercise" so therefore it isnt his fault.

I agree that scheduling his time to exercise will remove his bullshit excuses.

OP you really have to leave this man. Please don't dismiss what I am saying. He doesn't love you because he is incabable of love. He is a sociopath. So many of your posts resonate with me in regard to my ex. I tried to do what you are doing and just style it out but it escalates tiny bit by tiny bit and I absolutely guarantee he will get violent when you are close to being done with this shit. He is super aware of your every mood and thought but doesn't let on this bit.
Get out and get into somewhere with good security like a block of flats with loads of others around you and a code for the door. He is dangerous. I'm not trying to alarm you but he is. He is already wearing you down and eroding you but he has barely got started. Get out before the kids think he is modelling normal behaviour. Apart from him and you can allow them to see the way he is is 'just Dad being Dad'. With him and with your tacit agreement because that is the only emotion you are allowed to express, this becomes normal for them. You are in a much worse situation than you think and I'm no hysteric by a long chalk. Been there, done that. Got the scars to prove it. He is diagnosable.

I would feel such shame, embarrassment and disappointment in myself that I have used their time/resources to build a life with such an utter twat.

As a parent I would be very upset that you continued to have you and your children live with this.

And are you sure they haven't already noticed?

@Nanny0gg I don't think they would have noticed the extent of it, no. He is a bit of a know-it-all and would correct them in casual conversation, especially if it were loosely related to his subject field. He wouldn't do it rudely or anything, it would be very subtly, and sometimes so unnecessary when he could have kept his mouth shut, and I could sometimes see my parents getting a little uncomfortable. My father is a very experienced professional, now retired but still a mentor in the field he worked his entire life in, and I always thought it was massively rude to correct a much older man on things he could have just let go.

Then it sounds like they won't be unaware.

If you were my daughter, I'd want to know (And be upset if you felt you couldn't tell me)

OP, I would bet your parent's know a lot more that you think and your friends too.

These things can be picked up.

He likes to put people down.
He likes to feel superior.

I find it hard to imagine your parents don't know.
You noticed.
They noticed.

Either way.
Please speak to them.

They love you.

They would want to know the truth.

You're parents love you to support you, believe me they love you enough to support you now...

It sounds like he’s threatened by your relationships with others. By subtly undermining your parents he’s try to place doubt in your mind about them, that only he’s the reliable one, you have to back him because he’s your husband.

I’m afraid my narcissist klaxon is going off now.

Ime its because when you start doing something it shines a light on his lack of action, in this case his lack of exercise. He knows he should but cba and he doesnt like how that makes him feel so he is trying to put the blame on you. "Well I would exercise but I dont have time as I'm working and then OP is out doing her exercise" so therefore it isnt his fault.

This. He's lazy, and he's cast you as the clog at his heel, the reason cue the big sigh and self-pitying headshake why domesticity and family life is wearing him down and he can't find the time to train for triathlons and see his friends and write novels and teach himself Mandarin, and all the things he would definitely do if he only had the time and a wife who would put aside her own selfish desires and look after the children while he goes running.

Which is total nonsense, of course. He will never do these things, and he will never admit to himself that this is because he can't be bothered. Why would he, when he has you as a permanent excuse for why none of it is possible, alas?

A friend of mine got divorced a couple of years ago. No affair, and no subsequent relationships, he just said family life was not for him. Even though he has lots of money, and now seldom sees the children, preferring to 'drop by' the former marital home to see them like an uncle, rather than have them live with him 50% of the time as was agreed, he has done not one single one of the things he swore family life was keeping him from -- getting fit, returning to a competitive sport he did when younger, writing two books he'd been talking about for years, catching up with friends he'd not bothered to keep in touch with, meeting more people.

His life without his wife and family consists of a large armchair facing a PS4/TV. Family life wasn't stopping him doing anything.