What would you call this behaviour??

[JungleJane11]

Don't usually post in here but really need the input.
I wanted to know what word(s) you would use to describe the DP's behaviour, because I need some perspective on it.

I'll give an example of how today's one unfolded:
I started the Couch to 5k challenge today, did my first set of intervals while the kids napped at lunchtime. Within half an hour of me returning, he starts talking about how he needs to do exercise too, maybe he'll do the challenge too, maybe we can compete with each other etc. Now I knew for a fact that he would start saying he wanted to do it as well, or starting talking about how he needs time to exercise too (he has never worked out as long as we've been together), I just thought that he would allow me even the first few days of it to myself before starting his usual antics. He then goes on to say that he'd "love" to do it (he fucking hates running) but he wouldn't want to inconvenience all of us because now I'm doing my "running thing", and someone has to mind the kids while the other person exercises, and he might do it in the evening when they're in bed but that is "so late" then.

Now that might seem like a non-issue to you as you read it, but apply this behaviour to absolutely everything that I suggest I might do; a new activity, go for a walk, meet a friend etc etc. Every. Single. Thing. He will, within a very short space of time, assert that he wishes to do it too (meet HIS friends or whatever) and then he will very often express that he "cant" now because I'm doing something.

He has ALWAYS been this way. It has made me lose the motivation to try anything new or arrange meet ups with friends because he will immediately say that HE needs his time too, HE was supposed to meet up with so and so "for ages now" etc etc.

I don't stop him from doing anything he wants to do. I am at home with the kids all the time on mat leave, an extra few hours makes no odds to me if he has something he wants to do.
I really wanted to get back into running but he sucks the joy out of anything I do for me, because he will inevitably start the same shit.

So, what on earth do you call this behaviour???

Yep exdh used to do this.

One way or another he would ensure that he got his "due". It became more noticeable after having DC and sleep became almost a marketable commodity in the house. I caught a bug about 3 months in to ds1 and he had to night waking for an couple of nights. Literally the day I felt better he claimed he came down with it . (Logical right that he caught it from me). However this time it was so patently obvious that he was faking it it made me realise how often he did this.

It had been happening for years I just hadn't noticed it or registered what was happening. If I was ever ill pre DC , the same thing would happen, he would " take " the same amount of time back from housework etc. It only really crossed my radar because his acting that particular time was awful. I started to watch a bit more , and every time , without fail he would take his due , if I got any extra money from work he would spend the same amount. If I was I'll, he would be "ill" down to the hour the exact same amount of time. If I had a lay in when DC were small (bear in mind I did all the night wakings all the care and would get a lie in maybe once a month) he would find a reason to have the same .

It has taken me years after splitting to realise in fairness he wasnt a bad man but he was very much brought up to get his due. To this day, I can't bear the phrase " being mugged off " because his family are obsessed by the concept they are being cheated by someone , something, anything.

He just had it so unbelievably ingrained he did it automatically. Hes actually quite a nice man , if you aren't married to him and have to put up with this crap, I did call him out on it and frankly at the end of the marriage used to take the absolute mick out of it (not my finest moment and childish in itself) .

I cant bear point scorers, can you imagine how depressing it must be to go around all your life keeping score. OP you have my sympathies, personally I would just keep calling it out and making it clear how ridiculous and childish it is. However I strain to point put my marriage ended so that might not be the best advice.

I would carry on. And when he says "oh I can't now" or "it's too late" just respond by saying "that's a shame" lol

I couldn't live like that.

You need to be looking for a way out. It can't be good for your mental health.

And what happens when the kids are older and he starts manipulating them?

The kids are very young, one baby and one older toddler.
Yes it is absolutely grim and suffocating, it's horrible to be spending your life with someone who is making you feel so much less than what you are.

He will comment on most of the things I do around the house, obviously always in a way to put me down. For example, if I'm vacuuming and I do downstairs and the stairs & landing, not the bedrooms, when I come back downstairs he will say "ah thanks for that. You do the bedrooms as well, or..?" Knowing full well I haven't because I didn't have time, and he would have heard me if I'd done it.

He will do this with the meals I make as well. "Looks good. Did you put X ingredient in or..?" Again knowing full well that I didn't because I saw him notice X ingredient still sitting in the fridge.

God it all sounds so depressing when you put it all together and that isn't even the half of it.

It's amazing what you notice when the blinkers start fall off

OP when he asks questions like that about the housework/cooking, I'd simply say 'no but you feel free to do it'.

In terms of the running, I'd be Uber 'supportive' like @KatnissK suggested near the beginning of the thread. Then he'll very quickly have to find an excuse that isn't you.

What happens if you call him out on his behaviour? I'm going to assume sulking

Tbh he sounds awful and bordering on coercive, but mostly spoiled entitled sulky and points-scoring. He sounds very immature. As pp said make sure you return to work (pandemic allowing) and keep an eye on your financial situation for the future...

Oh dear, it's chip chip chip away at you, isn't it?

How have you not told him to f*ck off?

Particularly over housework and meals?

He is insufferable...

Maybe (secretly) have a read of Lundy Bancroft's "Why does he do that?".

This sounds so draining and depressing, keep up the running plan it’ll give you some relief from it if nothing else.

Sometimes I can see that he has planned to say these things in advance, other times it almost like it's involuntary, just who he is. I understand why pps have asked why I've stayed, I suppose I have stayed because it isn't like that every second of the day, it's just a predictable pattern.
He would be especially likely to make those kinds of comments if I had gone off to do some housework or cooking without mentioning it first, thus "leaving him" with the kids without the due warning he feels he needs. Because everything is on the scoreboard, he doesn't even have the ability to just exist alongside the children in the house when I get up and do something for a bit without saying first, if that makes sense.

That's because the childcare is women's work, and he has to babysit them for you...

If he likes his scoreboards can you get a chalk board and have a rota that you both agree to. This can include housework, kids and of course time for hobbies. That way he can visualise what's happening and he can keep 'score' but you'll have to tell him (even write it on the board) if he chooses not to do his chosen hobby, then he can't bank the time.

I don't agree with having to do this with a grown man but it might make things a bit more bearable until you decide what to do. I still think he's controlling

it sounds like he has quite fixed ideas about relationships, do you talk about what you both want? Some people are very transactional, but it has to be balanced with kindness and a wish for their partner to be happy and fulfilled. It sounds like he’s learnt some odd lessons about what relationships are like, as pp’s have said maybe his parents had a dysfunctional marriage themselves and he learned to get what he wants through manipulation. Most people can reflect and decide not to take those behaviours into their own relationships.

You can’t really change other people’s behaviour, but you can change your own. Do you have friends you talk to? Anyone you trust to help you decide what to do? I know it’s hard now though.

What are his parents like? Did you say he was an only child? Was that an active choice by his parents?

OP, i feel so sorry for you as i think you can tell the other posters do too.

But please don't lose hope.

One simple thing you can do after the types of remarks you have given example of like hoovering, cooking is to not say a word but to shrug it off. No words, a shrug that means "whatever".

You responding is taking energy from you. So just stop responding to it completely.

Also i would look at the "grey rock" method of just emotionally detaching from him and this constant drip of bullshit, to give your head some space from his white noise.

He feeds off depleting you of joy.
That is who he is.
Just stop engaging with him about the things you want to do.

Tell him a time you are going for a run and just go. Don't wait, just go.

The running sounds like it could be a life saver for you mentally so please do not allow his behaviour to deprive you of this. Don't give him that power.

I think he has all the control and he knows it well.

I don't believe he either likes you or loves you unfortunately. I think he picked you as you were a good catch and has focused on controlling you and decimating your self esteem and joy.

I would imagine he was very jealous of you and your easy confidence in yourself.
Either way he most certainly does not have your best interests at heart.

Take it away from him, without engaging or showing emotion.

Dis-engage and turn your focus fully on yourself and what you need to do.

Tell those closest to you about this suffocating control and ask for help as you have to return to work.

Engage with work to make your return, work for you.

You sound like such a lovely woman, it is awful to read you living this every day.

But you can get away.
You can survive this.

Oh God Billy your post has really hit deep.

He feeds off depleting you of joy.

Is just shocking and suffocating.

It’s all v covert. He is hitting and sabotaging just enough under the radar so that you don’t call him out. But underneath he is a nasty little man with seething contempt for you.

He is yanking your chain and getting off on seeing you unsettled and hurt even if you don’t call him out he sees the emotional deflation. So I would suggest not giving him that pleasure. Withdraw and emotionally detach from the RS - drop the rope so that he can’t keep tugging on your emotions.

He sounds emotionally developmentally stunted.

His neediness in the early days of the RS are a big clue. He needed a strong maternal type woman - so he clung to you. His actions then remind me of those petulant insecure children who you are bugging their parents out inappropriately at social events to get their attention and stop them talking to other adults.

But also there could be shame deep inside him for feeling this “neediness” - so of course like an emotionally immature child he has to blame you for his feelings so holds the resentment and has to attack you.

It all may look “low level” taken incident by incident - but it is a constant pattern of passive aggressive behaviour that goes v deep and visceral with him that he is trying inflict pain and at the same time trying to mask what he is up to.

Thank you @billy1966, I appreciate that. I am otherwise a happy person, which may be hard to believe I know. Though I have no doubt that my standards of happiness have decreased somewhat over the last few years.

@Gutterton he is not from the UK, I am. He hasn't got family here. Parents are separated, speaks to his mum regularly enough.

The behaviour comes across as almost involuntary, a lot of it doesn't look calculated (though it must be to some degree), it comes across as nervous energy when I suggest doing something for me, or questioning the way I've done something like cooking or whatever. Sometimes nothing bothers him at all but a lot of the time if I spring an idea of something I want to do on him he just can't cope. His gut reaction is to say "ah cool, well, I was also thinking.." and then he goes on with his usual and that's where the suffocation starts. I don't seek his permission for things, I try to just live normally, but I think a lot of you are right in that I have to stop telling him everything I plan to do, as it's giving him the power and the impression that he gets to say yay or nay.

It is v painful to see this and know that his mental state is switched on high-alert 24/7 to find things to pick up on to bully and hurt you with. It’s not a once a week bust up - it’s a constant eroding of you. Agree that he is jealous of your lightness, sociability, motivation and emotional security - so he wants to destroy these in you so that you become the same sullen, antisocial, insecure, drudge personality as him.

However there is little to be gained chewing over the ins and outs of his personality - much better focusing on how you can emotionally protect yourself from him so that he can’t stifle your life any further.

Everytime he makes one of his pointed comments about housework/cooking I would give him a standard response something like

"And what of it?"

Or

"why does that matter to you?"

Or

"Thought I would leave that for you to do/use"

Turn it back on him and observe his response. I think this will inform you of how much longer you can tolerate the controlling bullshit from him.

You don't have to get into an argument as you can diffuse with "well that was my thought/opinion, we can agree to differ".

It sounds simply unbearable. Op, talk to your work- what do you do? If others are working remotely I’d ask if you can go back to work remotely too at the end of your mat leave rather than assume you can’t.
I honestly am not sure with advice because I would have volcanically exploded with rage and left him. I think trying the uber supportive is worth a try. Then the calling it. ‘Oh now I can’t go for one’ - oh, what exactly was wrong with the other 22.5 hours a day? Tomorrow I’m going at 3, so hopefully you can make one of the other 22.5 hours a day then work for you.

The most important thing is only you can decide your actions. Don’t let him stop you. Start calling out his bullshit all the time. I didn’t stop you seeing your friends, you make your own decisions.
What a fucking loser really. I hope you fly free. You don’t need him to agree with you that it’s the right thing to do if you decide to split up.

Call his bluff every time and remind him of what he said. "you said you wanted to go running /cycling, why haven't you gone?" If he tries to blame you say you're doing your best to facilitate it so do it or shut the fuck up!
With the, did you do upstairs..? Say yes and then when he says you didn't, you have him. Just keep saying yes, done that with a big smile on your face. As for not finishing work on time just do what you'd planned anyway. He has to know his strategies don't work.
To be honest, he sounds very insecure and it needs addressing. Could you in a quiet time bring it up and ask him to think about why he does it? It's probably so ingrained he hardly notices he does it and it's become a normal reaction.

My ex was exactly like this only it manifested itself slightly differently.

If I wanted to do something that he was interested in he’d be all inthusiastic, ‘let’s do it together’ etc. Then I would start and he wouldn’t take any further interest. What he wanted was for me to give up. If I continued and got quite good at it he’d get aggressive and nasty and either shout and scream at me or give me the silent treatment every time I did the thing. When I was doing it he’d always make it very obvious that he didn’t like it and resented it.

If it was something he wasn’t interested in he’d belittle whatever it was I wanted to do. ‘What do you want to do that for, it’s stupid.’ On and on he’d go until I felt so ground down I’d give up.

The end result was always the same, and it’s the same result as your H wants, and that was for me to give up and not have anything for myself.

Me and ex both play guitar. He would play the same songs over and over without variation. He’s still playing them as far as I know after 20 years. I’d play lots of different things and get quite good. Basically I was a far better player than he was. He had, has, his own little thing he does. He feels as if he’s good at it (in reality he really isn’t that good) and that is how he maintains his feeling of superiority. Me doing that thing well or better, or doing something else, anything, would threaten his feeling superior and result in anger, aggression, violence. When those tactics didn’t work he would act like I didn’t exist, al while exuding this feeling of hate and resentment.

Basically what he was doing, and what your H is doing is a form of control. They shall have their little existence and things that make them feel superior, and anything you can do, want to do or try to do must be put down by any means possible to maintain that illusion of superiority. That is all it comes down to at the end of the day.

I left my ex. That was only one of the many reasons I left him but even that would have been enough on its own.

It might take you time to recognise the pattern of your H’s behaviour, but now you’ve started noticing you won’t be able to stop noticing, and I’m afraid the above is the conclusion you will arrive at. How you deal with it is yours to decide but that is where you will end up, sorry.

Agree with Random having standard bland statements to bounce back directly for him to deal with is the way to go.

Don’t get drawn on the content - that’s irrelevant - it’s not about running, or ingredients or hoovering.

Just dismantle his strategy of attack you by sending it right back - so that he is forced to explain his underhand snipes. Then he will feel exposed, confused, unsettled.

Don’t expect him to come up with an explanation, expect him to be slippery, to fudge, squirm and gaslight in his surprise and discomfort that you have called him out.