Is it all me?

[KatieRobin]

I know there are far more important things going on in the world, so apologies as this may seem trivial. This is also my first post. After some advice. Have been with my husband for so long now I just don’t know what’s normal. DH is always grumpy. Never wants to talk. Never ever wants to have a back and forth conversation. Just a fun conversation.
Went out to walk our 2 dogs. Were out for 30 minutes and managed to somehow annoy him. Everything I say is wrong. Started saying just casually I wondered what work was going to be like next week. We are both key workers. Got the response of ‘ I don’t know’ I should have just stopped trying to make conversation, guess I was just desperate for some kind of chit chat. Then started saying about what unprecedented times we are living in. He said no it isn’t what about swine flu and aids. I said yes but they didn’t cause a lockdown. He starts getting angry. I don’t know why, maybe because I disagreed. I like normal conversations- like conversations I have with other people where you can have back and forths- you don’t always have to agree in the conversation and that’s fine. If I don’t agree he says I’m questioning him and starts saying that he’s not stupid and that he does know stuff. I just shut up. We walk in silence. When he put the poo bags in the poo bin I thought he’d touched it with his hand and said to be careful about touching it ( due to Covid -19 etc ) he started seething through his teeth saying he’d touched it with his elbow and that he’s not completely stupid, that he does know stuff and that I was really f@#ing pushing him. Then he started raising his voice saying which way are we going now. I just felt so sad that I can’t say a thing, not a thing that creates a normal conversation and the fact that he started saying I was pushing him ( he says this a lot ) I could feel tears in my eyes. I asked how I’m pushing him. He said ‘it’s you, it’s f@%ing you always questioning me’ I said I didn’t think I did at all. I just wanted a nice walk. He just kept banging on that it’s all me and that I treat him like he’s stupid. He even said something like ‘ I don’t go into work dribbling you know. I do know things’ I just don’t understand what I do wrong all the time to deserve to be spoken to like this. I’m in tears as he makes me feel so unloved. Is it me? I just don’t know anymore.

In my twenties, I lived with a family member who was like this. Anything and everything I said, was belittled, ignored or disagreed with. I was frequently told if we weren't family, we wouldn't be friends as I'd never be someone they'd want to be friends with. Some really horrible things were said to me.

I tiptoed on eggshells around them for years and whenever they went on holidays, I felt light with relief.

The family member ended up moving away and getting married. I felt so sorry for the spouse at the beginning who was chatty and friendly when we met up. Of course they had been told all sorts about me which meant they went from being quite friendly to being quite cold and short with me so I began to feel they were well suited.

Family member appeared happy for a couple of years after getting married. Frequently told me how much better their life was since they had moved away. Roll forward a few years, and the family member is once again, angry and bitter but now its their spouse who is on the receiving end. I have watched them together and their relationship is one complete mind control game. It is really difficult to describe. From the outside, they are happily married but after a couple of days in their company, the family member cannot hold it together long enough to control their temper and argues. The spouse never replies and instead retreats.

What I'm saying, very incoherently, OP, is that it is not you. People like this will always need someone to be at the receiving end of their mood.

I think it’s a process of different stages.
Acceptance is huge and will help a lot.

Maybe the word abuse is still fresh and a bit scary, but read a few things on it and over time it’ll make more sense and maybe give you some comfort or reassurance that it has a label, it’s a real thing that seemingly lovely people do and your problems are not caused by anything that you’re doing.

Also accepting that this wasn’t the plan but it is what it is, nobody wants their relationship to end in this way especially a marriage that you thought would last forever, but sadly that’s how it’s turned out and again not for anything that you’ve done.

Time will be your friend on this one, time to accept, time to make decisions, time that it takes to adapt to certain changes especially after years and when a sad life has become a habit, and also take the time to mourn the relationship. It’s been a huge part of your life and maybe it’s made you who you are, you might grow to become a different person once you’re out of it.

Another scary word is divorce, don’t think about it straight away, just know that it’s coming eventually but that you don’t need to deal with it right away. Plan a separation, think of your options, it sounds cold but don’t think about his options or plans because you need to focus on yourself and your wellbeing.

Get your head around it all first, use your time and energy on planning what’s best for yourself. Stop trying to work out what it is that you’re doing to annoy him or how you’re pushing him. You’re not. It’s his way of saying it’s over without having to do anything about it. Take a different view on things, he’s not stressed with you he’s stressed that he can’t end things, or maybe he’s scared to or doesn’t know how.

Having to make a decision like this is usually the less of two evils, it’s hard but you don’t have a lot of choice, life’s too short. Focus on yourself and take your time.

Please stop trying with him. Walk the dogs on your own, you won’t feel any more lonely! Please use this time to speak to a good divorce lawyer and find out what your options are - you don’t need to dash off and anything immediately but it feels so good to know where you stand legally. Perhaps keep a journal and write down all the things he’s done and how it makes you feel. How would you ENJOY living? I’m Astonished you have/had a sex life with this very unkind man - if he treats the dogs better than you I can’t imagine he’d be a fulfilling lover. Nonetheless I’m so sorry you lost your baby and especially that (again) he wasn’t there for you. One can’t help wondering how it would have been trying to parent with such a horror of a husband though? But that is irrelevant - YOU are the most important one here. We all hate to think of you in such an unhappy situation this abusive, nasty man. You can’t let yourself be tortured for another year, please take some of the wonderful advice mumsnet can offer to set yourself free and be happy.

OP you asked previously if you were being abused as you don't see it at the moment. You probably won't ax it's hard to see in the middle of it

It took me years to see my H's behaviour as abusive and even now 20 years on I will have lightbulb moments when I see other posts on MM, and think oh shit he used to do that

At the moment you are questioning is it me or him. He's nice to others and I have friends I get on with so is it really me ?

If you stay you WILL get to the stage where you are so ground down he will have you convinced it's all you, everyone thinks so, all my friends/ family wonder why I'm with you etc

Don't let it get to this stage

Thank you all for all of your advice and words, and for sharing your stories.
I have walked the dogs on my own since Sunday and it’s been much more pleasant.
I’ve not spoken to him. He’s not spoken to me. I feel calm, but sad.
Does anyone have any nice marriage stories so that I can hear what a supportive husband is like? I think I’ve spent so long doing it on my own and not even realising.

Yes OP I can. Also, I spent a wonderful 2 years single with my dog, and would do again in a heartbeat if I had to. My criteria for a new partner was one who improved my life, and where I was at the time, took a lot of beating!

I met DH at work, and I'd always fancied him, like really.... Really liked him. But he was married (or so I thought) 2 years later his exW left him for her boss and shortly after he asked me out. Its been awesome ever since.

He puts me first, he's hardworking, kind, thoughtful and unbelievably handsome. I feel so lucky. We've been together 7 years now and have one DC.

They do exist. You just need to be picky, not settle and first and foremost be happy with yourself, as you are, single before you even consider dating again. When you're not looking, they turn up.

Thanks for sharing @Treacletoots. Sounds lovely what you’ve got. Very pleased for you. Think I might have wasted my life on this man. Worried I won’t be able to start over or ever have children if I do. Not getting any younger

How old are you OP? I didnt meet DH until I was 36. And no you haven't wasted your life. Just don't waste any more :)

@KatieRobin... I think most of us here are struggling to understand why you have stayed so long, even tried to have a child with him, and after all the horrible mistreatment you seem still uncertain. Can you tell us what thoughts, what doubts are holding you back?

And do read Women Who Love Too Much, by Robin Norwood. I think it might blow some of the fog away.

I don’t think I realised it was that bad. I thought marriage was just hard work. It’s not always bad, even if he is a misery. We’ve been through a lot and outwardly we don’t have a bad life. I’ve subconsciously picked to be with someone who is emotionally vacant, just like one of my parents. I’m desperate for that love to be reciprocated. I have so much to give and have chosen to give it to a brick wall. Makes no sense whatsoever. Why can’t we seek out what we need instead of what we have had in childhood. I’m getting into later thirties and feel my time slipping away. Don’t have time for another bad decision

Just found this thread. I've been married to someone very like your husband and the gradual destruction of my soul eventually made me leave after 13 years together.
His behaviour towards me was almost contemptuous in private yet he was lovely to everyone else. It dawned on me that this was a choice he was making. I can see now that he was never 'good enough' for me and my mistake was thinking that he was, and then him failing to live up to my expectations.
He's been out of my home and life for almost 5 years and I've never been happier.
My wise MIL used to say 'one hand can't clap' and that summed it up pretty well.
You say you don't have time for another bad decision. Right now you are thinking of what happens in the future when you meet someone else.
You can't totally guarantee that you'll have the future you deserve if you leave but you can be 100% sure you won't have it if you stay.

I’m getting into later thirties and feel my time slipping away. Don’t have time for another bad decision

If there is one thing you cannot afford to do it is staying with your husband.

If you are truly, ABSOLUTELY sure that your life will not be complete without spending 18+ years bringing up a child, find a sperm donor.

But please, for the sake of your sanity and your emotional wellbeing, leave him.

Thanks @marriednotdead. You’re right about it being a choice. He chooses to be awful to me. Haven’t spoken to him for days. He comes in just now having a go at me saying the dogs are making too much noise in the garden. They’re dogs playing. Saying he wouldn’t let them run wild. Again they’re just dogs playing. He then says he wouldn’t lock them out. Again they’re just dogs playing outside not locked out. I ignore him as as he’d come in it had come to my attention he’d liked some really inappropriate things on social media. When I say inappropriate I mean if inappropriate if you’re married. It gave me the ick. He’s embarrassing and disgusting. I didn’t care about him shouting at me and stupidly brought up what I’d seen. He unsurprisingly turns it on me saying I’m spying on him. no it showed up in my feed.
He goes on the attack saying he’s spoken to his friends and I’m in the wrong and that all I do is bring up things from the past. I should no t bother trying to defend myself. I said ok name one thing I’ve ever done wrong in fifteen years. He said I’m ‘insecure’ and ‘annoying’ I said that actually I’m not annoying as I’ve realised just me breathing appears to annoy you!!
He keeps telling me not to shout. I wasn’t shouting. He’s trying to make me seem crazy. Dogs both in now and he pulls the usual ‘you’re upsetting the dogs’ with your shouting. No shouting.
I walk away as can feel myself getting pulled into it. He starts listing things wrong with me and says everyone can see it. I just start laughing.
How messed up is this. He is in the wrong yet is trying to pull his usual tricks.
I told him he comes across as a creep. My heart is racing and I think I’ve realised I don’t like him.

@FlowerArranger yes he makes me feel crazy. Probably because I’m trying to be logical with someone who can’t see sense. He said I can never take the blame. Blame for what?! It drives me crazy that he does things that are wrong but would never see it that way. How can he be so warped?

Please stop wasting your time and energies trying to work out why he is like that and start figuring how to get away. Much more productive and ultimately less stressful!

Dear Katie, your story is so sad.

He said I can never take the blame. Blame for what?! It drives me crazy that he does things that are wrong but would never see it that way. How can he be so warped?

None of this matters. You will NEVER understand. What matters is that you extricate yourself from this horrible situation. If you stay, he will continue to hurt you. He resents you. He is making your life a total, abject misery. You MUST leave.

Please, tell us: what is holding you back?

Surely you realise that once you are rid of him, you will never have to deal with his abuse of you again.

Things like where to go, what to do. We’d both have to stay in the house to pay the mortgage until it’s sold. The housing market is tanking. I feel weak. I feel like a big failure. I’ve let myself down. Feel like my life has amounted to nothing.

Feel gutted that someone cares so little about me. It hurts

Can you afford to buy him out? Or can he afford to buy you out?

No, we would need to sell unfortunately

Are you really so old that one failed marriage means you have wasted your whole life?

I'd call an estate agent as soon as restrictions start to be lifted. Start decluttering and tarting the place up immediately with an eye to selling as soon as you can get an acceptable price.

Start browsing for new houses/flats for yourself. Plan out your new life from curtains to hobbies.

Thanks. I’ll start decluttering. Every interaction with him gives me a headache

Sometimes it can help to start treating him like a science experiment. Become an observer. Don't try to alter anything about what says he thinks of you or how he behaves.

Do this in the knowledge that it is him choosing to do this to you and you are a completely normal non-annoying human being.

Detach and observe. Don't JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain). Just observe and made vague non-commital noises at him if you feel you must open your mouth when he starts.

Are you really so old that one failed marriage means you have wasted your whole life?

Oh yes, LOL. I left after 40+ years. It wasn't all wasted - I learned a lot along the way... Looking forward to the next 30+ years of my life.