AIBU to tell him to fuck off and then fuck off some more

[Soconfusedandlost]

Situation is I fell pregnant during a fling. He had told me he was single (split 6 months before we met, went to the house he was staying with his friend and friends confirmed). We were together for only 3 months. Found out while together that I was pregnant, split almost immediately. Then found out he had still been with his wife while we were together and that she knew about me but I hadn't known about her. He was all for coming to scans and co-parenting until they go back together officially and then it was that he couldn't deal with it and I had to speak to her and she just gave me abuse. So I just carried on and updated as and when info was needed. He tried to make contact arrangements when I was 2 weeks before birth, demanding 50/50 from birth and baby to have his choice of first name and his surname.

Shockingly I disagreed.

He has met my DS once about 3 days after birth, when he turned up at hospital demanding DNA test. Did this, didn't hear from him for about 6 weeks by which time I had registered DS. hr then demanded to pick up DS and take him to meet his family, despite never having spoken to or held my son.

Shockingly I again said no.

Heard no further so life has carried on. Son has kidney and chest issues so have been in and out of hospital which I have messaged him to inform him but never had response.

This was 16 months ago. He messaged the other night asking for contact. Then found out that he had split with wife again and he blamed her for keeping him away. I called bullshit and he promised to take it slow, not pushing to meet immediately, even waiting 6 months or so.

My gut reaction is to block him and ignore but then I'm the ad guy further down the line.

I want to run him over but know I have to be reasonable. How do I do this, on several levels.

What is reasonable in terms of contact etc?

What is reasonable in terms of wanting him to fuck off and then fuck off some more?

What is reasonable in terms of how long he should wait and how he can prove that this is not temporary until he gets back with wife again (I have told him that she is not too blame as he is a spineless turd for not knowing his son)

but I think you're hopeful and overlooking his previous behaviour.

If you needed to go via court to see your child - would you? Because wild horses wouldnt stop me. He is a dead beat loser.

Go through CSA and let him take you to court if he wants. He won't.

I would also stop all contact /updates. You will make your life so much easier and so much less upset and unstable for your child as they get older.

I think you need to remember that you are doing this for your child. It's not like you're saying "Pay me so I can go get facials and pedicures". You are saying "Pay your child (in my name) so that HE can have the advantages and things that he needs and maybe a bit of what he wants".

And if he suddenly loses interest don't think for a moment that your child will believe 'your mum wouldn't let me see you'. Because the truth would be "I didn't care enough to see you once it became clear that I needed to be a fully responsible parent". And that's what you will tell him.

@AcrossthePond55 that is why I'm doing this. I know that I acted in anger when he first asked to meet DS at about 7 weeks old and altho he didn't fight it, I shouldn't have flat out refused. I have to give him a chance to know my son so that it is not thw truth that I kept him away. It's hard to find a balance with giving him a chance and letting him ruin such a happy child.

The maintenance thing, I sort of want to ignore it as I can manage without it, not well off but would prefer to manage without it than let him think that I have to give him whatever contact he wants because he's giving money towards things as DS is not pay to play

You reacted in anger because he made ridiculous demands. He said he wanted 50/50 from birth and to name the child. Then he wanted to take a 8 week old baby away from you to see his family when he'd never even seen the child. Those were almost calculated to get a refusal.

But you have to understand that maintenance doesn't equal visits. Then you can explain it to him once he's started to pay.

@forrestgreen I understand the maintenance and the visits are not linked. I don't want to raise the subject with him in case he thinks that.

@category12 they did seem like arseholes behaviour designed to get a "fighting" response at the time which is why I refused to engage. I'm hoping that by giving him this chance now, he can't come back in later years and blame me for him not being there

I'm hoping that by giving him this chance now, he can't come back in later years and blame me for him not being there

Nothing you do can stop him outright lying, rewriting history and saying that down the line. I'm not saying you shouldn't do what you think is right and let this play out, but it's no protection from that in future.

I'm hoping that by giving him this chance now, he can't come back in later years and blame me for him not being there

You can be absolutely certain he will blame you for him not being there. That is guaranteed. Otherwise he'll have to admit to his child that he just couldn't be bothered.

My friend left her abusive marriage to a cocaine addict alcoholic husband. She actually left a few times and went back. When she eventually left for good she ruined his life. And he truly believed that!

The thing is, I think dealing with both access and maintenance at this time is better than waiting (if he carries through) until he really gets attached to the child then asking for it. That would seem to be much more 'pay to play' than saying "Well, while we're settling this question of access let's settle the question of maintenance, too".

I know you feel you can 'do without it', but shouldn't your child be getting all the advantages he's entitled to from both parents? If you don't 'need' it, then put it in a Uni fund, save it for music/sports/driving lessons, the myriad of things that pop up once a child starts school.

If he turns and runs at the idea of maintenance, then he's going to turn and run the first time there are any 'difficulties'.

@TellMeWhothevilliansare & @category12 I know he will still say it in future, however I can now show evidence that I let him try and for whatever reason he has not done so.

Previously because the only time he tried I said no, I had no response if he said that

But if you ask for maintenance you'll be able to show your child that you tried to fight for him to have every opportunity that that money might mean

I think I would say, that as he is a flakey fucker & he lied from the start, his wife was verbally abusive & unkind, & he has been aware that he has a son, knows that it's his, has contributed nothing other than making demands (name, 50/50, DNA test) & now the darling wife has separated slung him out he is at a loose end. it may be his other DC have taken sides with his wife?
he is off work with time on his hands & is feeling lonely.
Not to count on you to fill the gap by providing the "odd photo", he either wants a long term meaningful relationship with your child or he can take a hike. If he is serious, then he could start by participating towards DS, (with back payments) like any dedicated father should. & make a regular schedule, & not mess your child about.
Once you are convinced that finally after 18 months he is committed to his child, you are prepared to start letting them get to know each other.

@mix56 I agree that everything in the past shows he is a flawed person and will let my son down. I have lots of misgivings about him contacting us now. However I have more misgivings about asking for maintenance as I have never pursued him for it (he works cash in hand, so CMS would be toothless).

So without asking for maintenance how do I get him to show commitment to DS

You don't "get him" to show commitment - you allow him the opportunity to show commitment. It's down to him how he uses the opportunity. Your emotional and practical investment in it should be minimal.

So, he should be suggesting an introduction/contact schedule. He should be the active one in this.

Well right now when you won't be able to facilitate access then there's absolutely nothing you should do. You don't need to video call or whatever, the baby is 16 months and would show no interest.

Tell him to come back to you when the virus has moved on and you will arrange regular access. Ask him to come up with an access plan that he thinks is reasonable and you will see if it works for you.

Put the onus back on him to agree to something and then when he doesn't do it, or doesn't stick to it you won't have to feel guilty.

Thank you for your advice. I was starting to feel like I had to ask him for maintenance as only this would show commitment. I know he should pay but I'm happy not to be beholden to him and wanted some other ways for him to show this. As you say, it's all on hold due to coronavirus anyway but glad to be able to pick brains for help

You wouldn't be beholden to him - try to reframe that for yourself. It's child support for your ds - it's not for you, it's a contribution he owes your child. He ought to want to provide for his child.

OP I would not listen to the posters on this thread. They are not living your life. Your son is going to be asking YOU the questions as to why his dad is not in his life or not. Some people are wicked OP. Some people do not advice you from the goodness of their heart. The posters who are saying you should cut contact with the dad because he fleets in and out are wrong. It does not mean what he is doing is right.

I will have an open door policy, he is free to see your son (if he does supervised access or have arrange set days he can see him) but I will have no expectations, do not tell your son "daddy is coming". Do not get upset if he doesn't show up. Setting your bar low is the best thing to do.

Your situation is tricky as he has a wife, his at crossroads (again I do not think this is right!) and his wife is not happy, rightly, about the situation. Hopefully, this is just a blip and the father becomes more involved.

I would only consider cutting contact with a father unless he is abusive ;sexually, physically, emotionally towards the mother or the children. I've had to do the same.

Without sounding dithery, if you were a grown up child and told by your dad that your mum had refused contact unless it went to court, how would you feel?

Truthfully, I would be angry with her for wanting it, but i would furious with him for not going to court and fighting for me.

I would also be angry if he didnt pay to look after me

He needs to pay maintenance regardless of visiting/seeing his kid. It’s his legal obligation. Has he even asked if he can give you money? Has he asked about his well-being? If you’ve got enough money for food? Is there anything you/he needs? Has he asked about his well-being during this virus? How you’re going to manage? Has he offered maintenance? Or is it just all about him getting his access to your son? Which one is it? If he hadn’t asked any of those questions then this is all about him and not your son and what he needs. He’s going to make it all about him. He’s a self centred arrogant person. It’s one of the worst risky health times in our history. Has he asked if he’s ok? No. That tells you all you need to know. Tell him you’re prepared to let him show you how committed he is. Obviously contact isn’t possible until isolation is over and the virus has gone but you’ll be prepared to consider it if he starts paying what he owes. Start his commitment by paying monthly maintenance. Then when isolation is over and he’s paid every month and he’s still in contact you can re-assess. Don’t let him just waltz in! For gods sakes don’t sleep with him again! He’s obviously on the rebound and looking for round 2. He’s unlikely to stick around so be wary

He has asked about DS' wellbeing during the virus because of ongoing medical condition.

As I keep saying I am not comfortable asking for maintenance. I have given my reasons and think I've been clear on that.

There is no intention of anything between me and DS dad. As I explained in the OP, I was unaware of the wife due to his lies.

I would allow contact to happen gently. I think every child deserves to know their father and discover what sort of person they are for themselves. But this needs to be done in a way that you are comfortable with and your DS is happy.

He doesn’t know this man! So contact can’t just “happen”. I would get him to show his commitment by saying you will send him a weekly text updating him on what is happening during the lockdown and once we can go out he could arrange (and pay for) some mediation sessions so you can discuss a plan and your feelings/concerns. Then he has to go and do something to start the process proactively.

They have things like contact centres all over the country, I’m sure once we are all forward with the Coronavirus that he should be able to book one, once per week, near you to meet his son in an environment that is safe but you don’t have to be there. Once he’s done a weekly meet for a while and shown commitment, your son will know him more and you will feel more secure.

If he can’t do that, mediation and a contact centre over the coming year then he’s decided to step away himself.

We've actually had a good talk today (by text). He admits he was an ass and admitted he has been depressed and has relied on alcohol (explained reasons why but not comfortable giving here) so is seeking help with this but doc has put on hold due to CV pandemic. He is trying to change his life and says he wants to do better for DS. I am taking with pinch of salt but glad he has been honest and reasonable in not rushing to meet DS without trying to improve himself first.

Thought we'd got somewhere and he's been radio silent. The day after our good talk he left me depressed messages at 2 on the morning which I responded to when I woke up a couple of hours later encouraging him to reach out to people (by phone/text/email). Since then, radio silence so assume he's either back with his ex or decided its not worth the work on himself

I know I’m a bit late but I think he needs to prove he wants to be involved by his actions. Tell him you’re willing to facilitate contact but he will need to find out how and do the right thing. That’s not just saying ‘why don’t I take him to my mums’ but more like ‘I’ve researched and think because of his age and the fact he doesn’t know me, we should start with a neutral place. Of course I should also start paying you some maintenance, and then maybe we can work up from there?’

Don’t do all the running about and don’t force him down the court route before trying something else.

The reason I say this is because when I was 18, my mum and dad split up. My dad told me that it wasn’t his choice to break up. That absolutely devastated me. But it was a very carefully crafted sentence to try and turn me against my mum - when I asked her about it, she said it was her choice but it was because he had told her he didn’t love her anymore . Luckily I was old enough for it not to have an effect, but my younger sister still harbours some bad feelings towards our mum because of it.

So I would urge caution as it sounds very much like he’d twist anything to suit his narrative when your son is older.