How do you reconcile someone being capable of being aggressive/violent with them being a "nice" person.

[GilbertMarkham]

A short while ago I posted a thread asking for opinions on my dh, who was violent towards me (flung me, held me down, no hitting) about 14 yrs ago during a cycle of severe arguments, and who had not repeated such behaviour until he "loomed" over me/squared up to recently during a bad argument.

I'm looking into separation and trying to get my head around everything - the latter being v important to me in choosing a course and sticking to it.

The thing is my DH is - quite honestly - a nice/good person 99% of the time. He is, and I'm not deluded in the way most MNers will believe an op to be when they say this, a good father who takes as much strain off me as he can in spite of having a v demanding job and has since our DD was born.

He is on the while very kind - just one example off the top.of my head is that, when my sister was arguing a lot with her DH and it looked like he was going to obstruct her from going on a trip (marathon and sightseeing) and money was ab issue, he instantly looked troubled and said 'how much does she need, we'll give it to her".

How do I reconcile all the good parts of his character (the majority) with what he did, the line he crossed years ago, and was toeing up to again recently?

*on the whole

When I told my mother I was thinking of/starting to make arrangements to separate, she said she thought it was the wrong thing to do and said "you know, Gilbert, that DH is at core a good person".

People aren’t black and white. Harvey Weinstein, for instance, was a depraved and horrible rapist who blighted women’s lives, but also a man who supported liberal politicians and who was willing to consider progressive films that no other big producer would. Hitler loved his dog. This idea that people who do terrible things must be monsters in every aspect of their lives is very harmful, imo - it can lead to people not realising that someone who is ‘nice’ can also be capable of terrible deeds.

Is he the lovely cup of tea with 1% shit, that can't be drunk because of the 1% shit?

A good metaphor there! As we all know, there is no acceptable minimum quantity of shit in your tea.

Hitler loved his dog.

No offence but a genocidal mass murderer (or a serial rapist/sex abuser) are not really giving me perspective on this.

And he only lobed his dog because he thought it had the right genes, presumably

*loved.

If he'd thought the dog was genetically flawed in some way, he'd have had it destroyed.

I just mean they're very extreme examples esp. Hitler, and are not really helping me.

Plus Hitler was clearly mentally ill, and suffered from something else that affected his reasoning in later life didn't he.

None taken. It was an extreme example of a monstrous human being who still displayed some vestiges of ‘normal’ human behaviour, and not meant as a ‘Hitler, was he really that bad after all’ statement. It was clumsy a choice on my part though.

It's very common for abusers to be charming, nice, kind, pillars of the community, pastors, priests etc

It's common for women to think they are mad because no one else can see what they see at home. It's common for friends and relatives to tell the survivor to stay with him, that they're imagining things, that he didn't really mean it, to give him another chance.

It's also common for incidents of physical violence to be years in between. I'm not sure what's happened in your case but there's usually a trigger. Weight loss, promotion, going back to work, new friends or interests, something he finds threatening where he has to reassert power and control.

The survivor learns or is conditioned to toe the line and he doesn't therefore need to assert power and control. It's when that control is challenged that he reasserts dominance. It's managed as well. Just enough to show you who's boss. They don't have anger management issues or mental health problems.

Don't listen to what anyone else says as you are the only one who knows what's going on in your marriage. The arguments were probably due to a power struggle in the relationship, he eventually became violent as he wanted to assert dominance over you and get you to back off.

Lending people money or charming otherwise charming others is all for show. It's a mask. That person doesn't exist.

Does he know you're looking into separation? It will escalate if he knows you want to leave. You are most vulnerable around the time you leave and in the first year. They can also sense that they're losing control which may have triggered this particular incident.

He's not nice, though, is he? He's someone with a nasty element to his personality that 99% of the time he manages to keep the lid on.

And that 1% of him would be too much for me to want to live with.

Life is too short to walk around on eggshells in fear of reaction.

Because everyone is capable of violence under the wrong circumstances.

As Toria says, definitely frame it the other way around. He's a nasty person capable of pretending to be nice.

Does it matter if he only kills you a little bit? I mean, you would be dead, but only just dead...

My boss was an absolute charmer, until he was in a shouting rage because (insert trivial thing).

My friend was a wonderfully supportive friend, until she was an absolute arsehole.

I think people are messy and trying to make sense is sometimes a fruitless task. It's your choice to decide if the risk that he will choose to be violent is worth it. I'd say fuck no.

After the incident 14 years ago, did he recognise that it was wrong and take any steps to work on himself to try to ensure that nothing like that would ever happen again?

I would examine the dynamic of the years in between. Were you walking on eggshells to keep him sweet, or were you both relaxed and kind? The two scenarios paint a very different picture. I disagree with people saying he's not kind and has been pretending for 14 years. That's not how abusers work. If however he was abusive in different ways this would be a reasonable assessment of the situation. Need more info.

We're all capable of doing some really awful things that others might say are "out of character". I think we all have it in us. Most of us choose not to do those things.

The problem is, once the line into violence is crossed in a relationship, it is always a background threat, sewn into the tapestry of it, and it's easier to cross that line again.

Some things are dealbreakers. Imo, getting physical should be a dealbreaker.

From experience, I'd say that they are just fucked up people. I had an exH who was so kind - to his children, to friends, to his parents.

However, something would just make him angry and he'd be like he was possessed. I have never been so frightened before or since. I can remember asking him why he did it and his reply was because that it made him feel good. Weird or what?

He came into the kitchen one day, I was reading. He grabbed my hair and was going to slam my face into his leg. I begged him to stop as I really didn't want to lose my teeth and he did. Just stopped.

He bloody knew that what he was doing was unacceptable. Sounds mad I know but I adored him (I was young ish).

If anyone needed anything he'd be the first person to offer - cash, a lift any assistance with anything.

I honestly think it's ingrained in people. Upbringing maybe?

He won't change his violent temper. Honestly, he won't. Well not until he's too old and frail but it may be too late for you by then.

Leave OP. Please make a better life for yourself without him x

I'm not sure what's happened in your case but there's usually a trigger.

Weight loss, promotion, going back to work, new friends or interests, something he finds threatening where he has to reassert power control.

14 yes ago ..

I'd cheated on him early in the relationship, told him but considerably minimised it ..
Layer in the relationship he went into a lap dancing club with a group on a stag do and I was very angry and upset when I found out; during a series of arguments about it, he said he knew I wouldn't be happy (but felt he had to stay with the group) and he didn't think I'd finish over it becausd he would never have finished with me over something like that, in fact he didn't know what it would take for him to finish with me ... I was v angry, bitter and somewhat malicious and said I'd test that then and told him the full details of cheating on him early in the relationship. I also expressed that I didn't regret it and would do it again, given what he'd now done to me re. The lap dancing club.

That was the context of the incidents 14 yes ago.

Recently, it was am argument that started about something petty - me saying he hadn't looked hard enough for the Santa's grotto in our local shopping centre to take out toddler, him saying he had looked, me saying he clearly hadn't, him saying "so you're saying I'm lying", me replying that I supposed I was since he hadn't had a proper look etc etc. He suggested we left the argument but I returned to it because I didn't think it was resolved a d have trouble leaving things. We were both sleep deprived as our toddler is a poor sleeper.

Weight loss, promotion, going back to work, new friends or interests, something he finds threatening where he has to reassert power control

I've always been the same weight, i haven't been promoted I just do self employed work three days a week, I've been back at work for quite a while, I don't have any new friends or interests, I made a friend a few months ago, another nursery mum, and we go for drinks, dinner etc every now and then and he watches DD while I go - I do likewise for him if he wants to go out or round to a friend's house, he had always been the least controlling man Ive encountered. I've always gone on nights out, trips, holidays etc in my own and he's always supported it.

On the face of it it sounds like you have been abusive too (no judgment a factual observation). I would find both of these situations torturous if in your DHs shoes. I am not saying there is any excuse for violence. I have to say in the second scenario in particular I would have gone absolutely nuclear on you and probably would have squared up to you in all honesty, especially if you were continuing the argument when I wanted to leave it.

Honestly? In your shoes I wouldn't split up. I would have probably done so after the first incident 14 years ago but he's not repeated it. I think you should get relationship counselling. He's not an abuser. You have both shown abusive behaviour.

Lending people money or charming otherwise charming others is all for show. It's a mask

Believe me when I say he's not generous when he thinks people will know or if he'll get credit for it, he seems (to me) to display instant empathy and wants to help. Only my sister wouldve known, it would've been kept secret because it would have caused friction between her and her husband (they resolved it anyway) and she he's always polite etc to my sister he doesn't care about charming her or anything.

Besides it's one exams I plucked out if my mind of hundreds. I'm.nit saying this because posters are saying things I don't want to hear, or am in denial about - I'm just being honest and trying to give the full picture.

"example

I don't know @GilbertMarkham

Generally I think that if a man is violent he needs to be steered clear of, but I have also known men who were mostly good but once or twice in a life time they behaved badly whilst in anger in times of grief/depression/overwhelming stress and in one case mania (from bipolar disorder). I don't group these people with the abusive narcissists and psychopaths I have Learnt about in the freedom programme and books about abusive men.

With some of them it's like there is hatred and anger and all kinds of nastiness just bubbling away under the surface. But I think everybody (no matter how good or kind, no matter how long their fuse) has moment of weakness or madness where they act out of character. Where they "flip" or "snap" or "breakdown." I regard that as part of being human.

Obviously in an ideal world we would not put up with 1% shit in our tea. But we are all at least 1% shit right? Nobodies a saint. What you need to do is work out whether that 1% shit is a constantly bubbling pot of nastiness that overflows occasionally, or a good kind person who has acted badly.

Does he know you're looking into separation?

He thinks we should separate too but doesn't want our DD to grow up with divorced parents.

We have had an almost entirely nonexistent sex life for years for various reasons and he never nags etc but had expressed that it's an issue, he also says he feels I show no affection, love etc.