How do you reconcile someone being capable of being aggressive/violent with them being a "nice" person.

[GilbertMarkham]

A short while ago I posted a thread asking for opinions on my dh, who was violent towards me (flung me, held me down, no hitting) about 14 yrs ago during a cycle of severe arguments, and who had not repeated such behaviour until he "loomed" over me/squared up to recently during a bad argument.

I'm looking into separation and trying to get my head around everything - the latter being v important to me in choosing a course and sticking to it.

The thing is my DH is - quite honestly - a nice/good person 99% of the time. He is, and I'm not deluded in the way most MNers will believe an op to be when they say this, a good father who takes as much strain off me as he can in spite of having a v demanding job and has since our DD was born.

He is on the while very kind - just one example off the top.of my head is that, when my sister was arguing a lot with her DH and it looked like he was going to obstruct her from going on a trip (marathon and sightseeing) and money was ab issue, he instantly looked troubled and said 'how much does she need, we'll give it to her".

How do I reconcile all the good parts of his character (the majority) with what he did, the line he crossed years ago, and was toeing up to again recently?

@NotNowPlzz

Disgusting ableism and ignorance autism. Reported.

My dad "only" hit my mum once every year or so. But the severity of the violence escalated with each incident until the day he nearly killed her, after 2 years of being delightful. Like you said at the start op even that 1% of shit makes the tea undrinkable and extremely hazardous to you.

You say you have a daughter. In 20 years if she is with a man like this I take it you'll be OK with that?

Regardless of those incidents, it sounds toxic and I think you should leave because its a sexless marriage anyway and you sound bad for each other. Sorry.

He's capable of violence towards you and you're not happy in your relationship

He doesn't sound like a good person to me

Withdrawing affection and sex from your partner is abusive

I haven't withdrawn sex and affection - we've both gotten into a rut over time of not having sex, for various reasons - sleeping separately for years, lack of sex drive due to depression etc.

Affection wise I am more guilty of not making an effort to be affectionate.

I’d call it a day. Because It just seems your with each other for the kids. What about living a full filling life for yourself. Kids can cope well with separation if it’s managed properly and both adults put effort in to making sure the transition is painless.

Your not having sex, he’s being aggressive and physical with you.

How do you think your kids will feel if he behaves this way in front of them?

Yes you may have been needling him but that doesn’t excuse him using his strength to over power you.

I remember being squared up to by an ex, he’d done it a few times tbh and this time I was shouting back and he head butted me in the face. At first I genuinely thought he hadn’t set out to do that, it was because I wouldn’t drop it so he took it to the next level - even though he was already trying to over power me.

But looking back on it now, many many years down the line - I can see he was always prepared to take it to the next. If I ever taught back he would be stronger more violent. I’d never win.

I didn’t leave him when he head butted me, because I swallowed up the trauma bonding. I actually ended up leaving over something really small I’m comparison.

He was ok most of the time too.

You only get one shot in life. You don’t have to be with a nice guy that can get physical.

Your kids would be heartbroken if they saw him doing this to you

The thing about getting advice is that in a post (and irl too.i suppose) you talk about the issues. You tend not to give the positives because you're not trying to process or solve positives. Neither is it often clear how minimal or not the frequency/dominance the issues are. DH and myself have always clicked, shared a sense of humour, been able to talk about anything, been on the same wavelength, enjoyed lots of the same things, gotten along well, enjoyed each other's company, been a support to each other etc etc.

In the early period there was also a strong physical/sexual attraction.

And now we obviously have a bond over our DD.

So I'm not minimising anything I've said itt but I'm.just trying to.givd some context as to.why either of us mind find it hard to follow through on separation and divorce.

As I said the time I tried to follow through on his suggestion, he backed out.

Yesterday I was discussing arrangements for a proposed holiday with my family in autumn and I was trying to tactfully imply that we might not be together so I should go alone and he was apparently totally unaware and assuming we'd still be together. I think the prospect of breaking up and divorcing still repels both of us to some extent, whether that's for good reasons or 'bad" reasons, I don't know.

Have you shared any positive experiences parenting together?

You said up thread that if you didn’t have a child you probably wouldn’t be separating.

Has coping with being a parent been so challenging for both of you - or just you?

Do you realise though that if he did go for help he will be advised to walk away from the argument, ask for time to cool off so that you both can discuss things rationally afterwards, or to get away from the situation.

There isn't really any help out there which will equip him with the skills where you can push and push for an argument and he will just be able to sit there and take it no matter what, that's not the advice that he would be given if he did go for help. It's a two way thing!

The thing that strikes me on reading this thread is that you guys are currently living an ok life but it's not a great relationship.
You are navel gazing about whether it's bad enough to leave but are missing the big point - why are you teaching your child about normal good healthy relationships.
Would you want your daughter to think that a normal relationship is separate bedrooms, polite conversation but no real affection or passion between the adults and something unsaid hanging in the air. People seem to think that there is no worse horror for a child than divorced parents but I see it differently - you are teaching them that staying together because it's ok is the thing to do rather than strive for the best. We may not always achieve the best but have the self respect to aim and try rather than just 'settle'.
I actually think you are looking for an acceptable reason you can use to the outside world to explain any separation. Violence would give you a lot more compassion from society than a 'its not working out as a couple' and the inevitable oars being stuck in on how to fix or improve your relationship.

I used to ask myself "why / how could he do this to me if he's nice 70% of the time?!" when with my abusive ex.

My counsellor suggested I spend less time wondering why he did what he did, and focus on why I accepted it.

I realised it doesn't matter why. And it doesn't matter 'how could he'. The fact is he did do those things. He was capable of it. And I don't want to ever be with someone like that again.

Having a child had been the most relentlessly demanding tiring, stressy experience either of us have dealt with to date.

Why is this so negative?
Is there no joy for you in your DD?

*Do you realise though that if he did go for help he will be advised to walk away from the argument, ask for time to cool off so that you both can discuss things rationally afterwards, or to get away from the situation.

There isn't really any help out there which will equip him with the skills where you can push and push for an argument and he will just be able to sit there and take it no matter what, that's not the advice that he would be given if he did go for help. It's a two way thing!*

I appreciate that.

I think we both need learn to take timeout or end an argument when we're starting to lose our tempers. However I'm not the one who squared up to someone, using my size (if I was bigger) to try to dominate or intimidate them.

Might I add for context that we have obviously had arguments in which we did not lose our tempers, they are the typical scenario.

No, but you were the one that pushed and pushed and pushed and refused to let it go, even after he'd asked you for some time-out. He tried to put a boundary in place and you bulldozed past it.

@Gutterton

You both sound like tedious lightweight parents in a b dull toxic RS.

You've made up your mind and said your piece about two people you don't know on the basis of some MN posts, so why are you trying to engage further.

Why would I engage; does the above technique work for you irl (doubt it) so why would it work here?

No, but you were the one that pushed and pushed and pushed and refused to let it go, even after he'd asked you for some time-out. He tried to put a boundary in place and you bulldozed past it.

Yes, so I would need to learn to let something go when we're losing our tempers /when he asked .. and he would need to learn not to.usr physical intimidation and aggression when he's lost his temper, esp against people much weaker than him.

But you are missing the point that he tried to walk away from you and the argument and you refused to let him.

As a PP has already pointed out, there is no therapy or treatment on earth that can make someone completely immune to lashing out if they are relentlessly goaded.

Why would you push someone like that even when they are asking you to stop? Unless you don't care at all about his boundaries and are so intent on deliberately trying to push him to the brink, and then sit back and watch him feel guilty afterwards?

On the face of it it sounds like you have been abusive too

Telling him details of you cheating on him is pretty horrible OP.. I just think it sounds like a toxic dynamic.

But you are missing the point that he tried to walk away from you and the argument and you refused to let him.

Do you mean physically walk away?

Where are you getting that from?
I didn't and would never stop someone from walking away of leaving if they tried to. He asked (told really) me to leave the argument but I returned to it a short time after.

To reiterate, yes I should stop arguing when someone requests a halt/it's escalating to something unconstructive .. but if someone doesn't stop arguing when you ask/tell them to (which is a not impossible scenario with anyone at any particular time) he should not escalate to physical intimidation and aggression. There is no excuse for that in any scenario but (physical) self defence.

I was discussing arrangements for a proposed holiday with my family in autumn and I was trying to tactfully imply that we might not be together so I should go alone and he was apparently totally unaware and assuming we'd still be together.

Why wouldn’t he assume that you’d be together? Why are you implying you are not? You told me in an earlier post that you had not given him any reason to think you might be separating.

I don’t get a feeling that you love or care for your husband OP. Sorry you just sound quite cold towards him. Maybe for that reason you are better off separating alone.

Why wouldn’t he assume that you’d be together?

Be sure he's suggested a divorce two of three times since our DD was born?

Because we had a discussion about our recent argument and how bad it was a d that we'd probably have to separate if we couldn't resolve our issues?

Would him telling the mother of his child who's currently dependant on him that he wants a divorce also mean that he doesn't love or care for me?

Or does he get to do that at moments of stress, then back out - bug I'm still the abuser on the relationship to you?

Ive never actually raised divorce myself, I've never gone nuclear like that : it's been him. The time he said it most adamantly and I really thought he meant it, I spent all night awake alternating between crying and researching arrangements for living, looking into costs etc. He slept like men usually sleep regardless of what's going on, and when I contacted him in the morning (he'd already left for work) asking was there any point in me taking our DD to a local daycare for a settling in day if we were separating and I would most likely not be living in the area ... His response was "no need to be hasty" and he then backed out if any further arrangements for separation or divorce.

But yes, I'm the cunt here who doesn't care about her husband or marriage.

Earlier you said He seems ashamed of his behaviour (looming over me/squaring up to me) but also focuses on the other things he thinks are dysfunctional/dissatisfactory (lack of sex life, lack of affection from me etc) whereas my focus is on this issue as the one that decides whether I stay and try to resolve any other issues.

Relationships like yours tend to get worse, they generally don't get better unless you both do in fact try to solve the other issues. I can see why he thinks the other issues are more important and are bigger issues.

You also said The other issues could possibly (?!) be resolbed but I wonder why I should even try with the violence issue, that's what I'm trying to process.

Don't try if you're going to fixate on the recent issue. It sounds like you are going to keep going on about it anyway making it it's the biggest issue to be resolved and ignoring all other ones.
In reality the other issues are less likely to be resolved because they will require far more effort to get comfortable with affection and sex and have it as a meaningful part of your relationship again. For a lot of women they're unable to get that part of the relationship back.