How do you reconcile someone being capable of being aggressive/violent with them being a "nice" person.

[GilbertMarkham]

A short while ago I posted a thread asking for opinions on my dh, who was violent towards me (flung me, held me down, no hitting) about 14 yrs ago during a cycle of severe arguments, and who had not repeated such behaviour until he "loomed" over me/squared up to recently during a bad argument.

I'm looking into separation and trying to get my head around everything - the latter being v important to me in choosing a course and sticking to it.

The thing is my DH is - quite honestly - a nice/good person 99% of the time. He is, and I'm not deluded in the way most MNers will believe an op to be when they say this, a good father who takes as much strain off me as he can in spite of having a v demanding job and has since our DD was born.

He is on the while very kind - just one example off the top.of my head is that, when my sister was arguing a lot with her DH and it looked like he was going to obstruct her from going on a trip (marathon and sightseeing) and money was ab issue, he instantly looked troubled and said 'how much does she need, we'll give it to her".

How do I reconcile all the good parts of his character (the majority) with what he did, the line he crossed years ago, and was toeing up to again recently?

Sorry, there is a lot here to try to sort out/cover.

OP I have no idea why you are in this relationship, it sounds more like trauma bonding than love. You aren't affectionate, don't have sex, he's been physically violent, you've cheated and he's squared up to you in an aggressive way.

You could try to put your child first here and not bring them up in this kind of environment or you could flip flop around for a few more years until he gets aggressive again perhaps towards you or your child.

We cannot absolve you of your responsibility of making a decision about this ending by a unanimous vote to LTB on a parenting forum. I know it would be nice to have things be black and white when living in a big grey soup of should we end it or shouldn't we? Do I love him or don't I? Is it over or not? Was it abusive or not? It's not ever black and white though, nothing ever is. I thought I would become clear when my partner was actually violent, it would make it hurt less to leave, but there are still days I still miss talking to him, spending Time with him, being with him. I have been in a relationship with somebody who was almost all nastiness, but I clung onto those fleeting moments where he seemed kind or vulnerable or excited by something and I tried to delude myself that things were ok, to keep living in denial. I needed to have it beaten into me for the penny to drop. I should have left when we were in the grey soup. Its not a judgement, I needed it to come to ahead. It takes bravery and maturity to walk away when things aren't working. It is a kindness to the other person to make that decision for them. We cannot absolve you of your decision, but you can absolve him of his. You can end this without any other reason that that you all deserve to be happy. You all deserve better than this.

OP I have no idea why you are in this relationship, it sounds more like trauma bonding than love. You aren't affectionate, don't have sex, he's been physically violent, you've cheated and he's squared up to you in an aggressive way.

Just to give you a fuller picture.

We've been together for about 13 years (would've been 16 but we split up for almost three yrs in 2010). For the first while we had an extremely active sex life. I haven't had many relationships but it is par for the course for me not to have much of a sex drive after the initial year or two in a relationship. I have spoken to one woman who said she was the same, I don't know how common we are. None of my other relationship, bar one, were lo v enough for this to be one an issue. The one that was - it was becoming a major issue before we finished.

I don't know what it is - could be contraception, could be depression, could be hormones/pms, which I sometimes get badly. It is something that will crop up for me in any relationship to some extent, it certainly did in the other ltr I was in.

Myself and my DH stopped slerpi v in the same bed due to various things .. snoring, wanting our own space, his very early start time. Now I look after our dd 5 nights a week, and he sleeps separately to get decent sleep, and he looks after her the other two, so I can get decent sleep at the weekend.

Having a child had been the most relentlessly demanding tiring, stressy experience either of us have dealt with to date.

Affection wise - I would say I am quite bad at that, again after the honeymoon period of a relationship.

I cheated two weeks after we initially started seeing each other. It was for various reasons, it was immature, stupid and low integrity. It is not, (no excuses but) something that I haven't seen or heard other young people do in the earliest stages of dating a new partner with no real trust or bond built up yet. It did not include sex, it was kissing and heavy petting but I rate anything like that as cheating do that's what I call it.

He has, yes, crossed that line and been violent .. and recently been aggressive/intimidating by squaring up to me .. and that's why I started this thread.

The other issues could possibly (?!) be resolbed but I wonder why I should even try with the violence issue, that's what I'm trying to process.

have been in a relationship with somebody who was almost all nastiness, but I clung onto those fleeting moments where he seemed kind or vulnerable or excited by something

Part of my problem is that is is not remotely all nastiness, he's the opposite.

*he is not

@GilbertMarkham

That was my point. That I have been with an incredibly nasty person and so it was easy for me because things were clear cut. He was abusive and him being violent meant that I could leave with clean conscience, whereas I could have left him much sooner when I thought it just wasn't working instead of staying longer with somebody I was incompatible with and just became nastier and nastier. The right thing to do, the brave thing, the kind thing, was to leave because it wasn't working. I needed it to be spelt out in big fuck off flashing nights. Arguing? Not enough. Gone off him sexually? Not enough. Didn't like spending time with him anymore? Not enough. But it is enough. It really is. It just takes a bigger braver kinder person than I was to make that decision.

I genuinely believe that the vast majority of people are capable of violence. As a species we wouldn’t have survived without that capability.

Whether they are also nice/decent or not just depends whether their reason for going to that place is warranted.

I also believe that many people get through their whole lives without ever encountering situations where violence is warranted.

So a person resorting to violence to protect a child from physical danger from another adult, fine.

Person resorting to violence after being physically attacked by another, fine.

Person resorting to violence to win verbal argument or get their own way, not fine.

Person resorting to threat of violence to intimidate and control another person, not fine (but think about an armed police officer using threat of violence to get a gunman to release a hostage).

Person with PTSD who resorts to violence because they are triggered and think another person is attacking them (even though they aren’t), not fine but needs help.

So whether a person is decent or not isn’t about whether they have a capacity for violence or not, it’s more about what the circumstances would need to be for them to go there.

I think your husband has used violence and intimidation in situations where it isn’t justifiable.

I also think you’ve cheated, lied about it and then used that to deliberately hurt him. That isn’t good or healthy either.

And those two things shouldn’t be used as justification or explanation for the other things. He should have left you when you cheated (or at least when the full extent came out). You should have left when he held you down.

It’s no wonder in a relationship with violence, lies, cheating and intimidation are present that there is little affection or passion. You don’t trust one another.

Now you have a responsibility to bring up your child in an environment free from violence, intimidation, infidelity and lies.

I would examine the dynamic of the years in between. Were you walking on eggshells to keep him sweet, or were you both relaxed and kind?

I have never felt like I walk on eggshells around him, I am what I am (great now I've started quoting cheesy song lines) .. who I am .. around him, if that makes any sense.

Since we had a baby we are both knackered, stressed etc a lot more of the time and it can lead to snappiness on both sides .. and at times I feel like we both got our teeth rather than get into another snappy/irritable exchange.

*grit

Having read your description of the two incidents, I have to say that while his behaviour is very bad, you seem to know how to press his buttons. Everyone has the capacity to be aggressive, as others have pointed out. I will probably be shouted at for victim blaming, but if you repeatedly jab an angry bull with a sharp cattle prod it will eventually charge you. I wonder how many other times you may have goaded him and he has not lost control to that extent.

I also wonder whether you might actually want to end the relationship but it feels easier to hang it on him. I was in a very dysfunctional relationship with an alcoholic in my late teens and (to my shame) I made several efforts to goad him into violence to give me an excuse to walk away. To his credit he never did anything (though he did square up to me) and eventually I just had to buck my ideas up and leave.

I am sorry that this sounds more critical of you than of him. I don't mean it to and if you feel at all unsafe then you have to go. Whatever you decide to do, I wish everyone the best.

So whether a person is decent or not isn’t about whether they have a capacity for violence or not, it’s more about what the circumstances would need to be for them to go there.

I didn't think that was ever up for debate (??)

We all feel like we want to commit violence at times (well I certainly do), it's whether you give in to that urge.

I myself have had some experience in my long term marriage with these issue now been non existent sometimes ppl (your OH) can get upset and frustrated and lash out I am sure most ppl have had some sort of blow out at some point in life and unfortunately it's those closest that normally feel the brunt of it ... but only you will know deep down weather or not your marriage is worth continuing with ... unfortunately now a days poll don't always remember that marriage is for better or worse ( so long as the worse isn't everyday .. and sometimes ppl change I know my OH did he grew up x hopefully you can make the right choice for you and you Family

He should have left you when you cheated (or at least when the full extent came out). You should have left when he held you down.

In a clean cut world, yes we should have, I agree.

However in the real world (esp when you're relatively young) people often consider things and don't make decisions that way.

There are women in here every day of the week who have forgiven cheating husbands of 20 years and claim their relationship is stronger than ever (I find it hard to be convinced but ..).

In our case he evidently considered that it was a very new relationship (we had seen each other twice and had done sexual contact but not sex), that I had found out things (not cheating) about him that made me think he was a player and not after a relationship, thst it did not include sex, and various other things.

In the case of his violence I was aware that I had been malicious, provocative, self obsessed, pedantic, lacking in empathy, cavalier and indifferent to his hurt, extremely frustrating etc etc and that he'd lost it. Now I think there is no excuse but at the time that's how my late 20s mind thought.

We are where we are now.

I am sorry that this sounds more critical of you than of him

You didn't at all.

And if you dud, it's ok. I'm on here for advice and to get that I have to be honest about my own actions and take the just criticism that comes with that.

I don't think either of you behaved well. To throw a full blown affair in his face because he went to a lap dancing club with a bunch of friends, is horribly cruel and unnecessary. It doesn't excuse violence at all but he should have left there and then.

That lack of sex and being accused of things he didn't do which are petty (couldn't find Santa's grotto?) would be the end for most men and most women.

You are both having serious arguments and no sex, (not sure who instigated this?) and he is feeling angry and showing this. Time for both of you to walk away

I'm not victim blaming, and suggesting OP changes, but saying this relationship sounds toxic from both sides.

*He thinks we should separate too but doesn't want our DD to grow up with divorced parents.

We have had an almost entirely nonexistent sex life for years for various reasons and he never nags etc but had expressed that it's an issue, he also says he feels I show no affection, love etc.*

I think violence aside because I honestly do not know what to think about this situation, one over the top reaction to a serious of heated arguments with words being flung about that were probably very hurtful. And then an incident of threatening behaviour. I may have seen another post of yours it sounds familiar.

However your latest post which I've quoted seals the deal really. This marriage is over.

Neither of you can stay married because of a child. I've know people who have done that and the child has left home seriously messed up because of the atmosphere in the home.

It's obvious you don't love each other and it's going to happen sooner or later, when is the question? Better now than let things get to a head again and actual serious violence occurs because I think that will eventually end the marriage.

Does a kissing/heavy petting session with someone else 2 weeks into a new relationship really constitute a "full blown affair"? It was not good and was cheating, but really?!

Why did you split up for 3 years in 2010?

It shouldn't be this hard, Gilbert, it really shouldn't.

Does a kissing/heavy petting session with someone else 2 weeks into a new relationship really constitute a "full blown affair"? hmm It was not good and was cheating, but really?!

Was wondering that myself. Maybe it's due to skim reading but I got incredibly frustrated with this sort of thing in the other thread. If I'm going to comment on someone's thread (and life). I usually read and reread, but lots of posters clearly don't.

Why did you split up for 3 years in 2010?

I think, while we had stopped arguing about the issues above (for quite some time) we were both disallusioned and a bit bitter about them, we'd lost the spark, from my side I was sick of (and pessimistic about) his behaviour while drinking. He didn't drunk often and mostly drank moderately but when he did drink a lot was a clueless, irritating, irresponsible foolish twat.

I thought he might end up affecting his job (he had previously been done for driving over the limit and had his license suspended for a period, he didn't tell his employer and used public transport for that period). I wondered if something like that could happen again but he'd lose it, when we had kids for example. My sister's ex husband had lost his for misconduct at that time and I was thinking along those lines.

The reality is that he now virtually never drinks, mostly drinks v moderately if he does, and has climbed the company ladder v successfully.

I was also depressed at the time a d I thi k it partly led to my decision.

Sorry for such rambly answers, lots of factors.

being accused of things he didn't do which are petty (couldn't find Santa's grotto?)

But he didn't look for Santa's grotto

I mean FFS I took a proper walk around the shopping centre (parts of it are disused) and found it. To me it's a typical "bloke half assing something" Because it's not footie and he's not really all that interested.

Ironically if we didn't have DD a lot of the sleep deprivation, tiredness, strain, stress, pressure, crankiness etc wouldnt be there and we probably (?) wouldn't be considering separation.

That’s one of the most ridiculous things I have read on MN. Unless you have a severely disabled child with significant additional needs - then why on earth can two fully grown adults (obviously not young) cope with a single child?

You both sound like tedious lightweight parents in a b dull toxic RS. Your poor child being dragged up in this environment.

It's obvious you don't love each other

I do still love him to some extent and as I said above he said that he still does and probably always will... but we are certainly, at 13 yrs along the line, past the in love, honeymoon type stuff.

I think such residual feelings are one of the other main reasons we haven't followed through on separation to date.

That’s one of the most ridiculous things I have read on MN. Unless you have a severely disabled child with significant additional needs - then why on earth can two fully grown adults (obviously not young) cope with a single child?

Just wrote a response to this outlining some of the circumstances but then thought - why the fk am I responding to, let alone sharing personal details, with someone this rude & nasty.

You both sound like tedious lightweight parents in a b dull toxic RS.

That being what I'm referring to obviously.