How do you reconcile someone being capable of being aggressive/violent with them being a "nice" person.

[GilbertMarkham]

A short while ago I posted a thread asking for opinions on my dh, who was violent towards me (flung me, held me down, no hitting) about 14 yrs ago during a cycle of severe arguments, and who had not repeated such behaviour until he "loomed" over me/squared up to recently during a bad argument.

I'm looking into separation and trying to get my head around everything - the latter being v important to me in choosing a course and sticking to it.

The thing is my DH is - quite honestly - a nice/good person 99% of the time. He is, and I'm not deluded in the way most MNers will believe an op to be when they say this, a good father who takes as much strain off me as he can in spite of having a v demanding job and has since our DD was born.

He is on the while very kind - just one example off the top.of my head is that, when my sister was arguing a lot with her DH and it looked like he was going to obstruct her from going on a trip (marathon and sightseeing) and money was ab issue, he instantly looked troubled and said 'how much does she need, we'll give it to her".

How do I reconcile all the good parts of his character (the majority) with what he did, the line he crossed years ago, and was toeing up to again recently?

@user1481840227

You're on point there, definitely.

I once posted in here about how to get back to intimacy and sex when it had been missing for a long time - I got very few responses and most were "it can't be done, end the relationship".

Online all the ideas seem cheesy and cringey.

The only think I can think of is to try to set and stick to dates. And try to be more affectionate etc on them.

With my ex, I feel I know for a fact the 'niceness' was not sincere (either that, or you can't know if any bits were true.) He is a narcissist and that is what they do- wear a different mask for every person.

So I don't really have any good and bad to reconcile. He is insincere (nasty) and using that to be a sexual predator (nasty) so it's all of a piece.

You might find it helps if you see that there is, at least to an extent, no sincerity in their 'niceness.' It's all to keep us roped in so they can then act as badly as they like when they like.

' You also said The other issues could possibly (?!) be resolved but I wonder why I should even try with the violence issue, that's what I'm trying to process. '

' Don't try if you're going to fixate on the recent issue. It sounds like you are going to keep going on about it anyway making it it's the biggest issue to be resolved and ignoring all other ones. '

@user1481840227 Violence is pretty bad! I'd say it's the most major issue, as it can end in death, and is not ok (to say the least!) whatever the result. And there's no guaranteeing it's resolved, it could start again the next day, and probably will at some point.

@GilbertMarkham I can't believe that people are criticising you for not wanting to shag him after how he's acted. And you have a perfect right not to have sex when you don't want it. Coercion and 'nagging' verges on rape. No-one is owed sex. If you don't want it, you can't help it. Having sex you don't want is awful. For people to say you are obliged to shag someone so abusive is ridiculous.

I really don’t know whether or not it would be possible to get back intimacy and affection, but I should think there would be a lot more chance of it if you were not so exhausted and drained - I think it would be a good idea not only for you to have times for dates, as you say (if you decide to work on the relationship) but also for you both to have some “me time” - individually doing whatever you find relaxing and enjoyable. Whether or not you decide to work on the relationship, it sounds as though that would be a good idea for your own wellbeing.

When he “squared up” to you, what happened? You said he did not raise his fists; did he step towards you with an angry expression, or stand still with an angry expression, or what? Do you think he was about to physically hurt you, and if so in what way and what makes you think that? Hope you don’t mind these questions - just trying to understand what happened. 💐

Coercion and 'nagging' verges on rape. No-one is owed sex. If you don't want it, you can't help it.

Thank you for your post.

Just to be fair, our sex life dwindled to almost nothing ages ago and he's said occasionally that he's not happy about that .. but he had never ever nagged or pushed or coerced. In fact he's almost never raised it, just when we've had a real sit down talk about our relationship.

If I've been enthusiastic about sex, he's enthusiastically met me .. but he's never been sexually pushy/assertive.

The effect on our sex life of resentment about the issues itt (on top.of having ended up sleeping separately, periods of depression etc) is definitely a factor though.

When he “squared up” to you, what happened? You said he did not raise his fists; did he step towards you with an angry expression, or stand still with an angry expression, or what? Do you think he was about to physically hurt you, and if so in what way and what makes you think that? Hope you don’t mind these questions - just trying to understand what happened.

It's ok.

His expression was unpleasant, like he was looking down his nose at me - aside from that, not aggressive or like he was going to.do anything further (I think).

@NoMoreDickheads Coercion and 'nagging' verges on rape

No it does fucking not. As a rape survivor I find this deeply offensive.

I suffered from pnd for over 2 years after my baby was born, made worse by sleep deprivation. I didn't want sex or any intimacy, everything got on my nerves, nothing gave me joy, and your posts remind me of how that felt. You aren't going to be able to work out how you feel about anything until you feel ok in yourself. If you aren't already on antidepressants see your GP. Organise some childcare and get some rest.

Sorry for your experience, Notnowplzz, but coercion into unwanted sex or being emotionally blackmailed or nagged into giving in to sex means there is no true consent.

Reluctantly consenting to sex is not rape. Coercion and nagging is wrong but FFS someone consenting to sex is not rape. If it is then what does that make my experience and those of women like me, who were physically forced and held down?

@BaolFan

There absolutely is coerced rape and not all rapists hold their victim down, nor do all their victims fight back. There is a difference between "nagging" and "serious threat of violence" however

Reluctantly consenting to sex with a man that beats you is rape in my eyes 100%

You have to imagine him in his high pressure job I think.
It's safe to assume that when his boss says something he doesn't like, he doesn't doing his boss to the ground, or square up to him, correct? He'd be in HRs office and out on his sese quicker than he could blink.
The truth is, he's physically aggressive towards you because in some part of his mind he believes he has the right to be.
It really is as simple as that.
Unfortunately I speak from experience OP. Wishing you all the courage and luck in the world

Doesn't fling**

Out on his arse** sorry stupid phone

If it is then what does that make my experience and those of women like me, who were physically forced and held down?

One of the many shades of rape I suppose.

My cousin dated a Turkish man on hufsy once, she made the mistake of going into a bedroom with him or having him in her room can't remember which.

He nagged, cajoled, verbally pushed, tried to persuade her etc to have sex over several hours, at one point he pocketed the room key so she couldn't leave. In between "petting" and relatively neutral conversations he kept pressuring her verbally and physically to have sex. She eventually gave in and had sex with him, which if she hadn't been pressured verbally and physically into doing (as well as prevented from.leavjng the room) she most likely wouldn't have done.

To me it was definitely rape regardless of him not holding her down or being violent etc.

I've been in not dissimilar situations a couple of times, I think many women have been. Often you're isolated from friends, family, in an unfamiliar situation, reliabr on then for transport etc. too.
They conveniently assume that "you knew what you were going back there for" and work in you to make you feel.lujs you're not delivering on something normal and that you 'promised" by your actions,or tire being childish, or you're being a cock tease or a prude, or they don't even bother with all that. They just keep trying physically, inc when you're tired, and sleepy until escalate it to full sex, pushing further each time . There are lots of factors.

I know a girl who went for an isolated beach walk with a guy in South America (can't remember his nationality) and from his behaviour it became clear he expected sex and wasn't going to take no for absser. She told me and I quite "I knew it was either be raped or go along with it, and there was no one around and if just seemed easier to along with it".

I've experienced and heard a lot of this - take by naggjng I used to call it,crape by increments (when they keep repeatedly pyshjnv the intimacy further and further until the femake gives in). I presume they tell themselves it prices she wanted it all along.

*proves

Sorry that turned into a novel.

Wow. Thank you ever so much for the mini-lecture but I know what rape is, thank you. I wish I didn't.

That was to AnotherMurkyDay. However I think I'm going to hide this thread now.

I wish you and your H every success OP.

*rape by nagging, rape by increments

Violent rape is not the only kind, baolfan. I'm sorry you went through that, but it doesn't mean the woman who gives in because she's afraid if she doesn't he'll beat and rape her anyway, or because he'll make her a life an utter misery, or because she's afraid the children will be woken up, or because he blackmails her, or he fucks her when she's asleep or unconscious, or any one of many awful things is any more consenting.

Even if it isn't rape, I think it may these days be considered a form of emotional abuse. abuse and rape are both traumatic. It isn't a competition as to who has it worse. apologies to any rape survivors here, am sorry for what happened to you but forced rape causes PTSD and emotional abuse also causes PTSD. One cannot be worse than the other.

The truth is, he's physically aggressive towards you because in some part of his mind he believes he has the right to be.

In one way I agree with you and I think."that means he has to get "help", which to be honest I don't believe in.

In another I think that while he works in a high pressured job, there is still that .. limit, for lack of a better word, on.intersctions - because it is a work place.

I can't imagine the level of irritation, annoyance, resentment, hurt, emotion etc being as high in a working relationship as it is in a personal relationship .. and I can't imagine work colleagues arguing the way that couples can end up.arguing. One or both of the work colleagues would probably not say what they think; everywhere I've worked there's been a tremendous amount of passive aggressive backstabbing. People don't confront work colleagues the way they do partners (or family). They would be unlikely to escalate arguments in the same way.

I'm not making excuses for him - I think there is absolutely no excuse for being aggressive/physical etc. I'm just saying I can't see it, not because he thinks he can do it/get away with it with me but not them ... But because I couldn't imagine things escalating like that in a work context for a number of other reasons.

Baolfan

as a survivor of many kinds of abuse, I feel your pain.