21 Year Old Daughter has tantrums and it's wearing me down.

[AvaGrace412]

Yep you read that right. 21!

Due to her father and various family members spoiling her as a child and allowing her to do as she wanted and behave as she wanted, I am embarrassed to say she's never properly grown up and acts like a spoiled child all the time.

Her latest tantrum was at midnight last night, she woke me up screaming and swearing as she'd had a minor disagreement with her boyfriend on a text message. Despite DH and I having harsh words with her and telling her to stop, the tantrum went on until about 4am.

She does this every couple of weeks or whenever anything doesn't go her own way. I'm drained by it all.

What medication is she in?

Sounds quite similar to my dd although she wasn't as bad but she had a very hard time controlling her moods and emotions and was quick to temper and could be quite aggressive especially if things didn't go her way.

This as well as other behaviours and symptoms, she was out on medication for a mood disorder. Changed her totally.

I knew she mental health issues and pushed for a proper assessment. It was still hard though.

But I have to say she didn't throw a tantrum and roll on the floor.

Do you think she might have Borderline personality disorder?

Make her go and leave with her father, he can deal with her.

Pushing my dd1 out of the nest at 19 was the best thing I did. She was spoilt and entitled.

She’s turned in to an incredibly independent adult who travels the world for work now.

Your dd needs to fly the nest!

I have a fair bit of experience with BPD. I have had clients with it; I have been in a close professional relationship with someone who has it; I have had friends with it; and I have studied it as part of my psychotherapy training. So I did not make the suggestion lightly or without experience.

Not all BPD presents in the same way, because it is simply a cluster of behaviours rather than a set 'illness'. Tantrums are definitely indicated, and the sufferer can absolutely be selective about when/where to display those behaviours - typically they are worse with those with whom they have more intimate relationships.

A good book to read: "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me", which helps describe and explain BPD, and how to manage it as a family member/friend/colleague.

AFistfulofDolores, Thank you for posting.

I grew up in a house where both parents were personality-disordered (no formal diagnosis, perish the thought they would actually speak to a professional, the problem was everybody else! But I have come to understand what was going on through my own therapy.). And yes, my parents' tantrums (also emotional abuse, also violence), these were things that happened at home, not outside. If my dad had done anything like that at work, he''d have lost his job. He knew this. So yes, he definitely did have some control over what he did. As do all, I suspect, similiarly disordered people.

I do find it very troubling though that professionals such as yourself talk often about personality disorder "and how to manage it as a family member." etc. Disorder or not, behaviour like this damages and often destroys the basic mental wellbeing of other people in the family. Whatever its cause or the names given to it, it is abuse. Family members should not to be given advice about "how to manage it", they need support in terms of ending it. If the person behaving abusively carries on behaving abusively, then that person needs to leave or to be removed.

In my 50s, I am still very much affected by what happened in my home when I was a child/teenager. There were child and adolescent mental health people involved during my adolescence because I had attempted suicide. Sad to say, these people fell for the manipulations of my parents (who could switch charm on and off at will) and decided that the "fault" lay with me!

This young woman's behaviour is damaging her immediate family right now. Trying to get them to "manage" it is the wrong call.

I'm sorry for the cack-handed use of "manage", @NorfolkRattle. I meant it in its broadest sense. Sometimes 'managing' the situation at work is working alongside and assisting someone with BPD who is actively getting help and has shared their diagnosis with their place of employment.

Sometimes 'managing' means taking any measure you can to minimise the damage that is being wrought by someone who is unable or unwilling to seek treatment - whether that be arranging for them to be sectioned, throwing them out, or leaving. I know this rarely happens, and I know children get caught in the fallout, and sadly there is little to nothing that is done for them at the time - in which case I hope they are somehow able to get the support they need when they are older.

It is a horrendous illness that puts everyone through hell, including the sufferer.

@ NorfolkRattle I'm so sorry you went through this, it's especially horrendous when children suffer like this.

I don't have knowledge of BPD but as you say, my gut feeling is that If the person behaving abusively carries on behaving abusively, then that person needs to leave or to be removed.

The OP can't be subjected to this type of abuse from her DD, it has to be stopped. In a way it's worse if her DD is selectively unleashing tantrums just on her family, because there's an element of manipulation there - which is abusive. As people have said on other threads, a person can both suffer from mental illness and be an unpleasant/abusive person, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

The support I have been able to access as an adult has been patchy at best. It's depressing and really unacceptable that in this day and age there are therapists (with proper qualifications and years of experience behind them) who struggle to accept that a client has been abused.
Also, the damage is done to children when they are children! Being able to talk it over much later with a professional (however good s/he is) doesn't really fix the deep-down problem. I grew up anxious and afraid and feeling completely helpless, so did my siblings. Society needs to help children when they are children, not just cross its fingers and hope that "somehow" they will be able to get some help later.
Going back to the OP, you have every right, AvaGrace, to not have this behaviour in your home. Whatever the underlying issues. If your daughter can keep herself under control with other people, she can do so with you.

@Pinkbonbon has it.

It's very probably NPD. Dont necessarily give up on her yet. But if it is NPD there is no treatment.

Her repeated tantrums and utter refusal to take any account of her behaviour, which is bat shit crazy, btw are hallmarks of this disorder.

The tantrums are her way of getting narc supply. Fuel. Because if she DID have a serious underlying mental condition she wouldn't he able to hold down a job. End of. So she has control.

And of course, narcs often come from narcs so the fact he physically abused you means he is also one. A lesser. Of limited cognitive function.

Your ex will refuse all contact or just generally drag his heels because narc on narc fuel does not cut the mustard. And if he is a narc, he will not love her. Narc on narc rapidly spin off against each other as each tries to control.

I'm so sorry. You are clearly scoring very high on empathic traits. You must now look to your younger children who must not witness this.

I don’t understand why anyone would be offended by posters suggesting the OP’s daughter has BPD. It really does sound like Borderline Personality Disorder. Does your daughter threaten suicide during her tantrums? Has she ever done so?

Although, I don’t think it is helpful to label your daughter at such a young age whilst her brain is still developing. Studies have shown that many who show signs of BPD in adolescence will not show any symptoms when evaluated again in 10 years time.

And to previous posters, just because you have BPD and don’t behave in a certain way doesn’t make it true for everyone with BPD. My best friend’s mother has BPD and my friend has significant MH issues as a result of her mother’s abuse.

@WarrenNicole

It does not sound like BPD. It sounds like NPD. Both my parents abused me. So did my ex. I've yet to have a tantrum on the floor.

That's because I know that behaviour is wrong and I have empathy and insight. One does not hurt others because we have been hurt

In addition. So many narcs hide behind NPD and autism as use for their appalling behaviour.

75Renarde, what is it about the OP’s daughter’s behaviour that makes you think that she has NPD?

Well I think I delineated it above but essentially this.

Tantruming at such an age. Attention seeking, lack of insight into boundary conditions. Lack of care into how it effects her siblings and mother.

Refusal to discuss rationally the effect if her behaviour. Grandiosity. Lack of empathy. No remorse.

Can keep a job. Displays control. Employers do.not put up with abhorrent behaviour.

Mothers own physical abuse suggests narcissism in the father. Which might have been passed to the daughter. Coupled with lack of care on the fathers part in his ex circumstances.

Father and daughter cant seem to get on which is indicative of narcs colliding.

Daughter is unaware. And will always be unaware. That's tragic. Formal clinical diagnosis of NPD is extremely rare because the acid test which revolves around the fact if someone has NPD is if they DONT have affective empathy. So hard to prove. That's usually in the hands of criminal psychiatrists. Which obviously the young woman will probably never get near.

Its tragic for her and the OP.

God, so much amateur psychiatry on here it's frightening. Even if she was diagnosed with BPD (which btw would necessitate other signs of disturbance in her life, not just some bad behaviour indoors with parents) what difference does it make? It's not an 'illness' it's a developmental issue so the big challenges for the person (and those around them) are about developing further and better - becoming more able to cope, more able to give and receive love less at the mercy of extreme emotions. In other words, similar challenges as for many of us with troubled mental health and no bpd label. Reading through the thread I'm shocked at the lack of reference to love. When did this daughter become mainly a problem and less a loved child? What kind of parenting led her to this disturbing place and how can the parents help her to get to a better place? Yes setting boundaries is vital - for everyone- but this has to be done with love and hope. Without these it's just a punishment, a way of handing out some kind of fucked up justice - and for who, the parents who brought this poor girl up? Omg the cries of 'chuck her out' make my blood run cold. She'll be pitching up in A&E or a homeless shelter.

Psychology, Lauren, not psychiatry! Psychiatrists would be giving her mind altering drugs, psychologists listen and empathise. :-).

Some psychologists empathise. Some do...

Reading through the thread I'm shocked at the lack of reference to love. When did this daughter become mainly a problem and less a loved child? What kind of parenting led her to this disturbing place and how can the parents help her to get to a better place?

I really agree with this, @Lauren850. I'm of the staunch, and terribly unpopular, view that most (NOT all) mental health problems have their genesis in the child's family of origin.

Aaah it all makes sense now you feel guilty she was witness to violence and now u and ur OH over compensate but letting her rule the roost..the bottom line is OP u can put the blame on other ppl but you are enabling this behaviour aswell. Not judging i know its tough but you need to start setting sum boundaries (ie staying with dad) for both her and your families mental health!

Well, her "happiness" doesn't seem to be materialising using her father's "method" if she is miserable and on anxiety medication at 21, is it?

not to wish to turn the thread into a zombie but 1 year on how is your dd now op?. i would be very concerned if i had a 21 year old daughter throwiing tantrums to the extreme of roling around on the floor. she sounds extremely volnerable and no i don't think kicking her out is the solution. had she never had referral to camhs? ava, it sounds like your trying to do your best in a very impossible situation. i feel for you. her father though needs to understand that this can't carry on like this