"But we took you to Stately Homes" January 2020 onwards

[toomuchtooold]

It's January 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

there's nothing wrong with your boundaries being high when others have none at all
This is 💛GOLD💛 Hero
I'm going to get it printed on my t-shirt 😊

Thank you ulter 🙂

I’m still toying with the idea of a small tattoo with a significant word or symbol on the inside of my wrist. I’m the very last person in the world who you’d expect to have one so it’s quite a thrilling idea to think about.

@gutterton , mute the group then archive it. You won't see a thing unless you physically go into archived chats

I’ve posted on here before but just need a little support right now. I am about to book a civil partnership with my partner of 6 years and we are both happy (if a little nervous) about it. We have decided to keep it very low key due to his ex wife and my parents. There will just be us and my DD and BF I feel sad that we can’t make more of a fuss but needs must. My parents are both quite difficult and I haven’t had the easiest life with them I am LC because of it.

My DM makes everything about her and DF is a bit of a bully. They absolutely ruined my DD graduation 3 years ago, myself and DD are still so upset about it which is basically why I can’t have them at my ceremony.

At the graduation my DF accused me of looking at me the wrong way as we were on our way to have photos taken, we were in a marquee and DM proceeded to scream at me in front of everyone at the top of her voice and make a scene, I had no choice but to leave and take them away from the situation leaving my daughter to have her photos take with just her and my exh. My parents proceed to scream vile abuse at me for the 1 hour drive back to my home where they grabbed their things and left. They have never been welcomed back here.

I am now LC and my DM is aware of our intentions to have a civil partnership but as she doesn’t see it as a real wedding doesn’t care that she’s not invited. Instead as per usual she’s trying to control the situation by suggesting we marry instead. I would love too one day but not while there’s a chance of that day being ruined.

I married very young the first time and I’m ashamed to say it was out of love but also out of desperation to be out of a miserable situation my life in their home was hell. My DF was not actually speaking to me when I married and hadn’t been for the preceding 18 months because I had mentioned I was trying to find a way to leave home.

I suppose the thought of the impending civil partnership is making me feel so stressed, because of the past, marrying young for the wrong reasons, the dramas my parents cause and their constant moving of goal posts, what is acceptable and they are ok with one day may not be ok the next. In other words while DM has no issue with not being invited there’s is every possibility that will change once we have the ceremony and she earliest that we really didn’t invite her. I have played it down so much said we walk in get the paper and leave, don’t dress up or anything. That’s not what I want I would love it to be a little more special then that but am terrified of the fallout if I do, even just a smart dress and my make up done.

I am not a huge one for being the centre of attention anyway but it would be nice to wear a nice dress (not a wedding dress) have my hair done and maybe even have a small bouquet. DP said last night he doesn’t want a ring as he would find it uncomfortable but would I like a token ring and I wanted to say yes but again deep down I’m so stressed at the idea that it will bring attention to our day and that it was a least a little special.

I should not at my age feel like this, but I do. But she is becoming harder and harder to deal with.

I do try to speak on the phone occasionally (she never calls me) but she manages to turn everything lovely into something nasty. Eg my DD and her BF bought DM mother a pretty scarf for Christmas, that was fine but DD BF apparently muttered “we thought you could wear it to keep you warm when you get the bus” apparently that’s nasty and was meant as a nasty comment, I can’t see anything nasty about that at all, it’s thoughtful. I said this and got told “yes well I see it as nasty I’m not like you”.

This sort of craziness is what I deal with

Hi @Tara336

First of all congratulations on your upcoming CP! I hope you can have a happy day.

Secondly I think you need to take a very deep breath and your courage in both hands and stop your vile parents right in their tracks.

They are massively out of proportion in your life and they are making you so small and afraid in your life that you don’t feel able to enjoy what should be really joyous occasions.

The graduation fiasco is appalling, they were obviously not feeling the centre of attention so decided to sabotage it for you. That should have been the final straw really, they behaved monstrously. I cannot imagine that journey back with them, it’s completely abusive.

Please, please please think very carefully. You can banish them from all aspects of your life if you choose. I want to imagine you on your big day in a beautiful dress, with a big smile and a happy loved -up future ahead.

They’ve done enough damage. They won’t change, but you can.

I should explain some of the behaviour before the graduation. DP were invited and came to stay the night before. DM gets hyper it’s the only way I can explain it. I don’t know the area we live particularly well at the time as I moved over 100 miles to live with my DP in his home area. My DP took my DM out with him to grab fish and chips in the evening when they arrived. DP told me after they had left my DM had been making weird car noises as he was driving and kept making a fuss when they were out getting agitated.

The day of graduation DP went to work and I was getting ready, asked DM to not touch the dishwasher in the newly fitted kitchen as it was not secured in yet and could tip up. I hear a crash and find DM in kitchen with dishwasher at an angle and I have to battle to push it back into place.

DM then decides she wants a shower so I switch it on and leave her too it, I go off to get ready and then have her in my bedroom telling me she can’t work out how to switch it off, at this point I’m fully dressed and hair done, she has switch the shower to rainfall and I have no choice but to get wet turning it off.

I then have to hurry out the door looking awful to drive in rush hour traffic and am then berated for parking in the only available car park that they deem is too far from the graduation.

DF then loudly takes the piss out of a students work as it’s presented in a smaller ceremony and everyone stares at us. We go to the main graduation and DM starts kicking off loudly about the people in front taking photos prior to the ceremony beginning (so not missing or blocking view of anything) they were then glaring at us.

We then proceeded to the photos and as per my earlier post they finished the humiliation by screaming at me in front of everyone and demand I drive them back to my house. I then was verbally abused the whole way back.

They are absolutely appalling, but my DSis would recognise all of that behaviour from our parents. (They did similar but more muted versions of those things to me.) especially the dishwasher thing, that’s a classic ‘I will not be told what to do because I KNOW BETTER’

The effect that sort of experience has on you is terrible, probably PTSD to be honest.

I’m feeling so angry on your behalf Tara. You deserve a much happier life!

@Herocomplex my DD is now engaged to her BF his parents were at that graduation and in the marquee when my DM started her screaming I remember looking over at them and they were stood there looking shocked. I absolutely dread to think what they will have in store for my DD wedding. I should be excited at the thought of a date being set but in all honesty I’m dreading it. With the dishwasher I’d said just leave the plates I’ll load it (I knew how to open it without tipping it) it seems like a small insignificant thing but it’s a snowball effect. I said to my DP it was like have two out of control toddlers in the house who then have.a tantrum when you say no

None of it is small or insignificant, it’s all designed to exert control over you and your family.

Are you tempted to cut them out of your life? Have you read the ‘Toxic Parents’ book?

They are massively out of proportion in your life
I had a very similar thought reading your post Tara, you are giving them WAY too much credence, too much space in your life
I absolutely dread to think what they will have in store for my DD wedding
I want to stop you right there Tara, they wont be there, you are going to kick them the fuck out of your life...arent you?
Why are you putting up with this shit?

@Herocomplex I bought the book after the graduation incident and it all rang so true. I have always had a deep fear of anyone having any control over me because of them. I live with my DP but have kept a flat as well, I can’t bear the thought of relying on anyone or them having a say. I didn’t finish the book as emotionally I found it difficult and because I recognised their behaviours and mine in it. When I went NC they turned their attention on my DD hounding her about why I’d not spoken to them. I can’t put her in the firing line

Tara to paraphrase Hero a few posts back, your parents have NO BOUNDARIES they dont give a shit they just spew out whatever occurs to them in the moment.... that means you should build a very high wall to keep them out of your territory (life)

@Ulterego my DD will have them at her wedding, I won’t have a say, I don’t believe I should have either it’s her day. Honestly I don’t know why I put up with it.

I can’t put her in the firing line
then your daughter will have to block them too
she doesnt want these batshit old nutters in her life (and therefore on her back) any more than you do

Ah, that's a bit trickier then, sorry I should have waited for the full picture before posting Tara!

@Ulterego she copes so much better then me, maybe because I’ve protected her but also because she shrugs it off and laughs at them. Though she doesn’t laugh about the graduation

my guess is that her 'performance' at the graduation will look like a warm up when you see what she's got in store for the wedding...
in her mind ruining the graduation is worth what, 20, 30 points, ruining a wedding, woah there lady, that's the jackpot, gotta be at least a ton fifty points, or more?

@Ulterego I’m not sure she plans things, but she certainly knows how to spoil them. She likes to be the centre of attention and if you call her out on it which I did in private fakes a panic attack

not sure she plans things
indeed! She sounds like a creature of impulse, and her impulse will be to fully extend herself and make it a wedding to remember :(

What would you like to do, Tara? At the moment you’re the universal recipient of the batshittery. Your DD can choose, but are you sure she understands what’s going on, and that she has options?

@Herocomplex she wouldn’t cut them off she just keeps them at arms length BF treats them with disdain and that causes issues as DM loves to tell me how he’s offended her this time. I would like peace, no drama, no stress and to feel relaxed. I feel on edge all the time as I never know what I’m going to get. A very close relative said to me your DM is always on a knife edge and you never know which way she will fall, my exh was there when that was said to me and he said the look of relief on my face was amazing as I realised it’s not me (despite being told all my life I am the problem). If I could have my civil partnership, relaxed and happy with no fallout afterwards I would be so happy.

Hello everyone. I hope I’m okay posting here. I’ve read a few things on other threads but never posted myself.

I’m lucky enough to not come from an abusive family myself. I am the child of two people who themselves came from abusive families and, because history repeats itself, I’ve married a man from a very abusive family.

His family are long term fuckwits but it’s all come to a head recently as his grandfather recently died and they’ve reacted by getting worse. I now believe we (as in me and DH) are being gaslighted by his parents and aunts and uncles about some things that have gone on in the past e.g. being told that things were one way within the family/with the grandad when we saw with our own eyes (DH for longer obviously) that they were another.

It’s an absolute head fuck and I feel like I’m going a bit mad. I’ve just come to get some support really and ask if this is common? Despite coming from a background where family abuse was much discussed, I’ve never seen it first hand before. I find it very confusing.

Narcissists and other abusers like to make things complicated, they like it if you’re second-guessing and doubting yourself, thinking about them.

Your only defence is to disengage, remove your attention from them and decide for yourself what’s going to happen. It sounds so simple, and it is if you never see them or speak to them again. Engaging with them brings manipulation, mind-games, outright physical,verbal or emotional abuse which you have to be strong enough to repel. But why engage anyway? They won’t change, and you’re getting nothing except the fear, obligation and guilt that comes with trying to have a relationship with a narc.

Get away and stay away.

And yes @AllTheWhoresOfMalta that description is very typical behaviour. Your DP’s parents are positioning themselves by re-writing history, so you all fall into line, I would say.

Sorry you’re going through it. Too much drama, who needs it?