"But we took you to Stately Homes" January 2020 onwards

[toomuchtooold]

It's January 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Can you imagine the increased stress of opening up contact again
I hear you😳 I am very relieved that I took steps to distance myself before all this happened, the parent in question is perfectly capable of getting help for them self and they will have built a support network
I'm so glad I'm not in it
This types are perfectly capable of manoeuvring people into assisting them, they reach out to their offspring because we are low hanging fruit, it's easier to make us comply and make us feel beholden.
I'm enjoying all the isolating it suits my personality 😊

@Ulterego Oh I'm so relieved that I made the decision to go NC a few months ago. It have given me the headspace I need not to feel guilty about not getting in touch.

Also, I'm self-employed so have got to figure out how I'm going to live on £94 a week for the foreseeable future. A few people who don't know my situation have said why don't you ask your mum for help. And it really made me think.

The thing if I was still in contact there is no way she would offer to help and if I plucked up the courage to ask it would be me literally having to beg with all sorts of convoluted terms attached to it.

I'm not saying that this is about money but thinking about the what-if scenario made me realise that there has never been any mother-daughter relationship there at all.

Other people would have no problem asking their parents for help or being offered the help if they needed it (money or otherwise). It's crazy that these people had children but it never occurred to them that having a child meant making sure that child felt self and secure at all stages of their life.

Any advice on how to insist to extended family that my abusive narcissistic mother will not be coming anyhere near my son? The blood is thicker than water. Shes a grandmother now. Shes still your mum type of well meaning stuff from those who know things weren't right but weren't there behind closed doors.
Bearing in mind I was pressured into telling her I was in labour and she didnt even bother to try to find out how we were.
When baby was 5 days old she messaged me that she didnt want any contact with us. A few months later out of the blue I get an email asking me to bring him over to her house so she can see him. She and her boyfriend were emotionally abusive and neglectful, and gaslight.

1Mice,
She's utterly and completely despicable, block and ignore, completely and forever.
it's hard at first but the longer it goes on the easier it gets, you can do it and you can find support here.

Thank you. I just wish it was more socially acceptable

Ignore all the extended family members that are acting as her flying monkeys. They are not interested in hearing your side of things so their opinions should be ignored. They are also certainly not acting in your best interests either.

@1Micem0use Luckily social distancing is perfectly acceptable at the moment. So you've got that excuse for now.

I detest Mother’s Day at the best of times and I have today informed my now adult son that I will never ever make him feel as obligated as my husband does to his shit of a mother. By the way he agrees that his dad has today acted daft.

My totally obligated feeling husband has gone over today to visit his narcissistic mother because she has not seen him for ages, the idiot even rang her beforehand to see if she was comfortable about having him over there today, they would practice social distancing!!.

I would like to nominate him for the Darwin Award😀 but my anger lies mainly with her. She has not and would not have done anything here to put him off visiting. Of course she wants to see him, Coronavirus and advice from the government be damned because fresh narc supply from him is what she wants.

She had better not cross my path anytime soon and besides which I dearly want to tell her how selfish she is. Not that it would do any good mind you. So what do I do and what can I do other than tell my lovely h how disappointed I am?. Your comments would be appreciated.

Curious about no contact - do you suggest even telling the parents about this when you do it?

Also is this response too harsh? Analysis welcome....

I've posted quite a few times before under different names.
I'm so upset and angry. Not speaking to my sister anymore.
I did do a thread but I feel people here would understand more.
I've posted about my dysfunctional family and I've had alot of counselling and got to a place where I didn't let them affect me so much.
So today I messaged my sister asking how she was. She said not good, going hot and cold yesterday and today has a really bad cough where she's breathless. I said oh no hope you're OK and to rest. Speak to my mum ask how her days going, says my sister came round this morning. I ask does she know she's ill? She's says no, only just found out. So I message my sister and ask why she went to my parents knowing she was unwell and didn't isolate. I told her she's very selfish and let's hope our parents don't get it. Obviously unsure if corona or not.
She responds with loads of swear words to me and asks what my problem is. I reply she is for being so selfish. She then blocks me on everything.
My mum then has a go at me! Saying I could have worded it different and now mums upset because my sister isn't talking to her because my mum dared to question my sister about why she went to hers when she's unwell. So my sister then blocks her because my mum isn't being sympathetic enough towards her. Sister doesn't apologise to my parents.
So now apparently I'm the bad guy in all this for telling my sister the truth. Yet it was my sister being selfish.
I'm angry beyond words. I don't think I can come back from this witg sister. Especially if it turns out she's got corona and has passed it to my parents.

So what do I do and what can I do
My first thoughts are to do with black magic rituals Attila🙈
I wish there was something else but you know that anything that you you put in her direction will be spun around and used against you.
If anything don't let her know that she's got to you because she really enjoys her power to compel your husband to defer to her, revels in the tug-of-war between her and the person who who genuinely cares for him.
(Is she in good health or does she have underlying issues... at all, the mother-in-law?)

Ineedwine
Imo your sister knows full well that she's in the wrong but she can't tolerate being told so by you, it makes her feel as if you've got one over on her she is triggered and she goes with it choosing to explode rather than admitting that she's wrong...causes a huge amount of upset and drama to distract attention away from the fact that she has acted like a complete and utter dick ....that's my take on it.
Hardcore social distancing, can you get back to that place where you didn't let them affect you too much?
I think I might be writing an account of exactly what happened though and saving all those messages just in case your sister tries to turn anything around and blame anything on you.
It is pretty damn hard at the moment everyone is very easily triggered.
We got to try ride this out

@ulterego thanks, I think you're right. However this isn't just because of what's happened now. My sister has always been like this and the family, especially my mum tip toes around her for fear she will explode and not speak to her.
I've actually lost count the amount of jobs my sisters had because she gets into fights and arguments witg the staff or her boss. She hates authority and people telling her when she's done something wrong. She is very confrontational and has been this way to me as well. Usually I let it go to jeep the peace but not this time. No way, the fog has lifted and I can see what a selfish horrible person she is. Only thinking of herself and cannot admit or accept she was in the wrong and apologise to my poor parents.

Wine
She sounds dysfunctional and difficult in the extreme ☹️
The inability to ever back down, refusal to accept any kind of authority, it's my way or no way ....if you have a personality like that it can make life very difficult because you just kick off about everything and end up where no one wants anything to do with you.
I'm not saying this to defend her (she sounds like a complete nightmare🙈) but she almost might not be able to help herself.... like she has very low impulse control?
I don't know if it would help you to try and reframe her as a person who needs to be quarantined and managed because she is so severely dysfunctional?
Distance distance distance block block block....you don't want her to be your problem!

Mum tiptoes around her for first she will explode and not speak to her
Your mum may not be willing to acknowledge this but she is acting as an enabler here, your sister uses this behaviour to get her own way and by kow-towing to her your mother is encouraging her to behave like this.
There is probably nothing you can do, remove yourself from the equation as much as you can, maybe let them fight it out amongst themselves?

@selfisolatingsince2007 can I just point out that by having a back and forth text conversation like that you are in a relationship with her. That last text you wrote is so eloquent and heartfelt, and she’ll absolutely lap it up, it’s supplying her need for drama. I can see the emotional toll it’s taking on you, it’s not good for you. I would just disengage. Block her number for a while. Just let her do her thing. Concentrate on yourself. She knows exactly what she’s doing.

Best of luck.

Attila so very hard, he’s really struggling. You’ve done your best, you know all about the dangers, you’re a long-termer here. You must feel the shadow on a daily basis. All I can offer is my heartfelt and complete empathy. Take care x

selfisolating I haven’t read to the end of the thread, I agree it’s not great for you to be going back and forth as you’re engaging and lending some validity to what she’s saying by addressing it, but personally I had a little internal cheer at your last text! You make it so clear that you know exactly what is going on and tell her without being unnecessarily rude.

Thank you for your responses Ulterego and Fanthorpe

MIL has a small leg ulcer (of which much fuss from her has been made) and apart from this she is otherwise in good health. Sadly a personality transplant is not possible.

As much as I would like to tell MIL she is a selfish narcissistic bitch (and others I have talked to agree with me) it will merely play further into her hands. All I can do here is tell him (and I have already done this) how disappointed I was with his choices bearing in mind the current guidelines because he cannot argue with facts. And he is certainly struggling with the obligation part of FOG in spades. I am well but only go out to take DS to the station (he currently works two days a week) and to go shopping; nowhere else. Fortunately for me my mother detests mothers day too so I do not have to bother with it, not that I would particularly want to send her a card either.

Onwards and upwards!

Oh God, logged in to my work computer and I had another email from my mum at my work address (I don’t seem to be able to block as I have admin privileges). This one has the subject line “personal - [name of animal we supposedly jointly own] - important decisions”. I haven’t opened any of her messages yet. The thing is, she has a long history without exception of handing responsibility and decisions over to others so she can be a martyr/blame others/be defensive later. Also, this is a pedigree animal and on the website of the organisation with which this animal is registered (trying not to out myself here) I am not listed as an owner. No money changed hands and I don’t have any ownership documents in my possession (although most of my important documents are in my parents’ possession, unfortunately).
I’m quite tempted to send her a screenshot of this website and just ask her to leave me alone, but my boyfriend who I am staying with at the moment says that would be engaging with her.
I know that my family will take the exact opposite view, but she just needs to take responsibility for something for once, whatever she wants to do with the animal is her problem, but I’m worried that I will cause other people problems or, god forbid, the animal will have a problem if I don’t respond.
Sorry, just needed to vent a bit again. I had a very wobbly day yesterday because this self-isolation thing is very familiar, I’m so used to shutting myself away and keeping away from people because after the way I’ve been brought up, there was a lot of isolating me from other people so I could be more under my parents’ control, and this just feels like more of the same except I’m such a broken, useless human I don’t really even have friends who want to know if I’m OK or want to chat with me so they will be less bored. It’s all a bit pathetic. Hope you are all holding up well! I’m so glad this community of strong and wise people is here.

Hi Cecile, I'm sorry you're feeling like this ☹️
is such a strange and difficult time and it brings up all sorts of stuff☹️
If you send her that screenshot it would give her a nice big boost of 'fuel' (and you wouldn't want to do that would you) so I'm inclined to agree with your boyfriend.... Don't even acknowledge it
'email? what email??' 🙈

Cecil

Again, do not respond to any messages your mother sends you. Perhaps ask someone nice in the IT dept to enable your mother's email address to be blocked. At the very least delete all of her communications. Radio silence from you needs to be maintained.

This is hoovering behaviour on her part designed purely to suck you back into her dysfunctional world. This time she is using a pedigree animal to get back at you. The animal in question belongs to her (there is no paperwork to show any sort of joint ownership) and is therefore her sole responsibility. She would never take into account what you think anyway so no response from you is warranted.

If you respond at all you will cause your own self problems. Your parents are abusive awful people who have basically tried to completely trash your life. You have learnt a lot of damaging crap from them not least of all your feelings that you are a useless human being. You are NOT a useless human being at all but it would take far more than a comment from me to enable you to believe that truly for your own self. Your parents did that lot of damage to you and they are entirely to blame. Its not your fault that they are the ways they are and you did not make them that way.

I think your feelings and response are interesting @CeciledeVolanges, I wonder if she’s got a history of making you responsible for her actions and feelings? The ‘look what you made me do’ type of person.
Stand back, have a think. You’ve decided to disengage. Why does this thing change things? It’s just evidence of more manipulation on her part. It doesn’t really matter what anyone else thinks, whatever she decides to do is her responsibility. If it’s something cruel or dreadful or irresponsible then it’s her decision. If she interprets you’re silence in a terrible way, it is not your fault.

Cecil - don't send anything back and delete those emails!

She KNOWS that this will worry you - which is why she's using this particular topic.

Not legally yours so not your problem!