"But we took you to Stately Homes" January 2020 onwards

[toomuchtooold]

It's January 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

unicorn79

If they do turn up I would not at all let them in.

Ultimately you are going to have to do what your brother has done here; he hardly sees her now and for good reason too.

I would defend your rights absolutely not to have your parents in your home; they are imposing themselves on you and trashing your boundaries at the same time. It is ok not to be in touch with such people and I would refrain from sending them any further communications. Like many toxic people too your mother has and needs a willing enabler to help her; this person here is your dad. He has also failed you abjectly here as a parent by accepting and otherwise condoning his wife's excesses of behaviours. He is really too her secondary abuser.

Re your comment:-
"I do want my daughter to have a relationship with her grandmother so am trying to manage this carefully".

Think on why you exactly want this; is this really your own fear, obligation and guilt talking here?. What would it achieve?. You cannot manage a relationship with your mother because there really is not one anyway, let alone one to manage. She wants you to kow tow and bend to her unflinching will at each and every opportunity presented. In their quest for power and control over you your dad will willingly enable her. Are you still seeking their approval, you really do not need that and besides which neither parent here will ever give that to you. These people were not good parents to you when you were growing up so why would you want your child, your most precious resource here, to have a relationship with them?. Think again about this because allowing them to have a relationship with your child could well come back and bite you hard on your bum. I would personally not want either of your parents around your child. Toxic parents too can too easily be toxic as grandparents. Your child needs emotionally healthy role models; your parents do not fit the bill here.

You would not tolerate this from a friend and your parents really here are no different. Keep these two well away from both yourself and your child going forward.

pippy

No need to further wobble; your parents are not bothered about you so you really have no need to be bothered about them. Give your headspace instead to people who are more worthy like your own family unit.

All credit indeed to you for remaining NC with your parents. With any luck they will indeed turn on each other; you will not be around to see or hear any of it. Just be wary of any "flying monkeys" who may approach you re your parents.

Tha is @AttilaTheMeerkat. My mother left the family home when I was 7 and didn't come back which is why I find it even more selfish of my father to behave the way he does. I consider myself an orphan

@unicorn79 this kind of behaviour is so familiar to me. My mother routinely tells me when she'd like to visit, what time she's arriving etc. It drives me crazy.

@Fanthorpe I feel totally trapped. We're all she has and it feels like we're doomed to exist in this misery forever. I've tried to talk to her but I can't get anywhere. I feel like Im grieving for a mother I want to have ☹️

@Dollyparton3 that's how I feel sometimes.

It's a strange feeling to have when your parents are still alive.
I tried to contact my mother last year. She left when I was a teenager. (Long story as always. Found her via Google

Been difficult, swapped a few emails but only leads to more disappointment.
Therapy has helped.
She emailed me last night(been about 4 months since last email contact as I haven't replied to her last one due to trying to sort my head out) to say hope all well in this difficult time. I want to believe it is genuine.
I think I'm more angry with my father. But what if it's not genuine and leads to more disappointment.

Just want to update that uterego’s helpful suggestion of sending a statement worked! My mum said that she would leave it up to my dad who then said not to go. She said she hadn’t seen the text but was making a huge effort to be nice and I’m sure it made the difference.
Thankyou also Attillathemeerkat for making me think a bit harder about the benefits of the relationship it’s something I really need to consider.

Nice work Unicorn😊👍
you've got your mum on lockdown!

Good work unicorn!

By the way that behaviour of her putting it on to your dad and not seeing the text is straight out of the handbook. Watch out for your dad pleading on her behalf, he will probably try to appease her. Be very clear and stick to simple words, don’t vary or explain, and just let them speak but don’t respond. It’s very hard, but it’s your boundary.

Hi. I posted in december about my DM. I found this thread really helped me bet some prospective.
Has anyone else found that things have been made worse by the corona virus. My DM usually has a toxic melt down twice a year around the same time. but she has been seriously triggered by the Cv and has become very depressed and abusive. When she is in crisis Dm creates conflict with friends and family so she can push eveyone away. I dont know why but she seems to enjoy sitting at home sobbing about how everyone has turned on her. Im very careful not to say anything to her when she is having a toxic melt down however i could tell she was trying to goad me into an argument she wanted to come round so i told her i was out , she just exploded sending me voice messages screaming at me to f off she is now bombarding me with nasty horrible texts about what a terrible person i am. After years of abuse i have very low self esteem and low self worth I've been made to feel like i have no right to be alive she has left me with terrible anxiety and depression which has very much affected my adult life. ive had councilling which enabled me to see how dms abuse has effected me and how to cope with her behaviour. I normally ignor her messages and i dont engage with her while she is like this however like eveyone my mental health is shit becuase of whats going on with cv atm and im really struggling not to let her pull me down further. Im sorry for the long post it really helped just to write a post in December and read it back to myself

IwantamarshmallowMan
Big hug for you
(((😊)))
Please do anything and everything you can to shield and protect yourself from this CRAZY WOMAN.
Shut her down!!!
never mind coronavirus, she is the thing that you need to protect yourself from, can you start making a plan, going forward so that things can improve for you and you can escape from her influence?

Take some measures, practice an extreme form of social distancing, put on your mental hazmat suit, and get rid of the contagion in your life, use this crisis as an opportunity to make a better life for yourself.
(Apologies for souding too much like a motivational speaker!)

What the others have responded to you marshmallow. Shut her out completely from your life.

Abusive people can and do use depression as an excuse for their own abusive behaviour towards others. It is not your fault your mother is the ways she is and you did not make her this way.

You do not furthermore have to cope with her abusing you, such behaviour cannot be coped with and nor should anyone have to. I would take your counsellor to task if such had been suggested to you, this is also why seeing a therapist who has no familial bias despite the presence of mistreatment is important.

Have no further contact with your mother and remove all her ways of being able to contact you.

On the subject of therapists I recently received a text from mine it said something like 'hi Ulter you've got an appointment with me next week can we change to a different time please'
I terminated my treatment with this therapist a few months ago and I feel as if this was a case of pretending to make a mistake but really touting for business, perhaps hoping that I'm stressed because of Corona and would use this opportunity to reinstate my treatment....so that would mean that the therapist is trying to gaslight me ...wouldn't it 😳.
Maybe I'm just being paranoid and it was a genuine mistake?🙈🤷🏼‍♀️

Thank you for the replys. I've tried so many times to walk away. She just worms her way back in every time. I was having councilling for anxiety and the situation with dm came up. The councillor told me to cut her off for good but i didn't feel able to so she told me not to have her round to my house, not to engage when she is being toxic and not to read her messages and to keep her at arms length. But its very hard. Im just so tired of all of it.

She just worms her way back in
Then you need to stop up all those wormholes
ALL OF THEM!

Hi @Iwantamarshmallowman

Your therapist has not really behaved very helpfully towards you, they shouldn’t tell you to do anything, it’s all your decision. I wonder if this is why you don’t feel able to make the break? You are the one who decides what’s going to happen, not your therapist and certainly not your mother.

I would advise you to take some time to reflect on what you want. Your mother is too toxic to deal with at the moment, so you can choose not too. She’s completely wrong, completely unreasonable and you are well advised to keep her at arms length.

It works, honestly. But the key to it is that you take the decisions, you decide how your life will go forward. Right now things are not normal but that could work in your favour, it’s a good time to change your life. Best of luck.

@Ulterego I think if your gut was that she was touting for business then I would trust that instinct. Anyone who works with confidential information shouldn’t be getting people confused.

I received an email from my grandmother a couple of days ago urging me to get back in touch with my mother as she is missing me, and due to the coronavirus situation and today she’s sent an email to my work address. I haven’t spoken to her for six months or responded to anything she has said. I don’t have much else to say beyond that, sorry, just wanting to vent, I haven’t missed her for a second and receiving communications really triggers me, sorry, I don’t know how else to describe it and I have PTSD so it’s probably an accurate description. Why can’t she just get on with her own life? Sorry, everyone.

Do not respond to any messages from your grandmother. You must maintain radio silence here.

She is the flying monkey here to your mother and she is not interested in hearing your side of things so her opinion should be ignored. I would certainly now block all her ways of being able to communicate with you.

urging me to get back in touch with my mother as she is missing me
Cecile, if she misses you and you miss her then there might be grounds for you to reach out, but you dont, quite the opposite!
Your life is better without her in it, keep doing what's good for you and block all access and passage to harmful influences:)

Anyone who works with confidential information shouldn’t be getting people confused
very true!
Had she called me by the wrong name I might have believed it was a genuine mistake but it just looked contrived to me:(

Just wanted to drop in to say I hope everyone's keeping well x

As hard as it is to keep in mind as we are all being urged to take care of one another, reach out to loved ones etc, can you imagine the increased stress of opening up contact again?

You’ll just be at the mercy of their nonesense again but with fewer options to escape it. Block it if you can. Look after yourself first of all.

@nannymags hello - I'm not sure if someone has answered already but I find transactional analysis really helpful. It is a good combination of recognising the impact of your upbringing/family dynamics without raking over details (if you don't want to - sometimes an incident comes up that I remember that I want to explore more). If you have a Google that might help. I also really benefitted form reading a book recommended to me: "adult children of emotionally immature parents". Take care everyone x

Just checking in to say hello to everyone on what can be a difficult day for lots of us.

@Fanthorpe - yep. I'm taking the advice of looking after loved ones literally. This is a stressful time for everyone and we don't need the added stress of dealing with people who suck all our energy and offer nothing in return.

Hope everyone is keeping well and safe. For anyone who runs a small business there is going to be lots of help made available tomorrow so get online and apply for everything you can.

Also, if you use local businesses tell them they can get help. They don't all know as they're not glued to the news all day as they're out working. So again tell them to go online tomorrow and apply.