"But we took you to Stately Homes" January 2020 onwards

[toomuchtooold]

It's January 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I still love and miss her
Loving someone who is damaging you is bad for you, you should love yourself first and stop doing things that are bad for you
You call it love I say it's some kind of trauma bond, get yourself some space, some distance, walk away, then you'll be able to see what your true feelings are and what you need for yourself MrsmadEvans

@Mrsmadevans

It's so hard when there's a mutual contact. The constant whispering about you. Even when things are so blatantly untrue.

I know you feel that you have a responsibility for your mum, but if she's parroting back what they've said, that's not good for your MH. Walk away. Let them get on with it

Thank you Ulterego , if only l could . l have to look after my Mum l can't leave her she is too ill. I will be free when she is gone , it's just when l am provoked it hurts and l have to vent . I have exhausted my inner family and friends, they are lovely to me but l can't keep on using them as sounding boards bless them .Thank you again

Thank you so much Koala . God knows you ahave your own problems . I must get to bed, thank you both it means a lot to be understood

I have now managed to block her email address.

She still has my home address and on birthdays and Christmases, cards arrive. Christmas just gone contained a cheque each for the DC. £100 each. They were ripped up and put in the bin. So she's clearly realised that that money isn't going to leave her account.

For their birthdays last year, she sent notes, documenting how much money she'd put aside for them from birth to age 18 (£200 a year each). She'd even added it up and put a final total at the end. She encouraged them to keep the card she'd written and to contact her when they were able to, and she'd give them the money. They are 6 and 8. Like fuck did I keep that for them. Both sitting in a landfill somewhere now.

She has always been extremely generous. I was an adult before I realised that she was buying me. Every penny was always referred back to. I owed her. Forever.

Teetotal I think just by putting your story on here helps people, because they might find something that chimes with them. You don’t need to be checking in as a payback, especially if it gets your thoughts into a dark place.

Thanks Hero.
It's good to have a place to just let it out. Helps me reorganise my thoughts. Being here tonight has helped me immensely.

I'm so sorry that things are so difficult MrsmadEvans, I hope things improve for you asap 💐

I have to say I know that I'm very lucky in many ways.... I don't have any kind of a large or close knit family, there are very few candidates for the flying monkey roles it's not all that difficult for me to avoid the people that I want to cut out of my life I know it would be much harder if I was likely to be bumping into them on a regular basis 🙈

I’m the same Ulter I can’t imagine how hard it must be to have that happening. The isolation was part of my upbringing though.

Hi, I’ve joined Mumsnet specifically for this thread. I am working my way through all the stately homes threads but could really do with some advice today.

It’s a bad day and I’m upset so apologies if I ramble or don’t make sense.
About a year ago a friend pointed out that I should look up NPD as some of the things I said about my mum seemed relevant. On the reading I've done so far my mum fits most of the NPD signs. I felt shocked that the way I’d been treated while growing up wasn’t right. How stupid does that sound.

I’ve always had to walk on eggshells yet still manage to do and say wrong things. I’ve constantly been told I have to change to make her happy. The anger she has always had I believed was my fault but I’m now realising it isn’t. Growing up I was always told I’d wrecked the day so we wouldn’t be doing anything. That I owed her 16 years of her life back etc. Any birthday and Christmas was ruined (I was told because of me) but she’d be the bigger person and do her best to get through the day.
I’m ashamed to say even now her face will change if she’s heard me talking to someone and I’ve said something she doesn’t agree with. The fear and brain freeze/panic I get is so pathetic, I’m an adult! It’s always been this way though.

Currently we are having to rent together as neither of us can afford our own place yet. My mum has had a lot of ill health throughout the years and has needed a lot of help.
Everyday she is firing orders at me and criticisms. This and that need doing, you’ve done that wrong, She’s furious when I go in the shower as jobs need doing. When I use the word ‘I’ she flies into a rage. I’m told to always say we. She says everything I am is down to her. I can’t have any of my own successes. I do my best to be me but she finds a way to squash me down.
I work long hours so I do get a break but when I’m home it’s constant. I don’t think I make life easy for myself as I do stand up to her. I also use the grey rock technique at times, this makes her rage though, throw things etc.
She tells all her friends kids (that are my age) she loves them, calls them darling, sweetheart etc. She never tells me this. I just feel like her servant. If I don’t cook or clean it doesn’t get done. If she does a bit of cleaning she just shouts at me not to wreck it. If I don’t fold a towel the right way she goes nuclear.

I often feel trapped as no one knows the reality. The act she puts on if we are out together or with other people. Even I fall for it. I don’t tell my friends much as I don’t want people to think bad of her. My mum was raised in a narcissist household, her older sibling was the golden child. She’s then found herself in abusive relationships. She’s copying how she’s been treated all her life. She has so much anger and sadness in her it’s heartbreaking. I wish I could make it all better for both of us.

Usually I can cope with it all but I’ve had a few bad days. Last weekend was her birthday, all the family were crap and didn’t remember. She told me the night before not to celebrate it in any way. I’d already gotten her a present. So in the morning I didn’t say happy birthday to her straightaway. I was waiting to see her mood, this was wrong and she cried all day about how everyone made her feel. I feel so bad, I’ve tried to make it better but she twists what I say, always does. She’s still upset from her birthday, I’m the target no one else, she’s refusing to open my gift to her. It’s so hard to deal with.

Anyway, I know the advice on here is to go non contact. However this is not currently possible. Can any of you give me any advice on how to cope with a narcissist when you can’t go non contact and have to live with them.

I feel so alone and unlovable.

This is really challenging. When you say you’re stuck in your situation, for how long? How old are you? Is she reliant on you financially? Where is your dad?

Is she physically violent? I don’t think you can separate effectively if you live together. You can put in place some boundaries, ignore her when she’s dramatic, refuse to engage when she’s goading you, but any attention she gets just feeds the monster.

You need some help to get free.

user

You can only make your life better for you sadly. Your mother has made the terrible choice not to love.

re your comment:-
"My mum was raised in a narcissist household, her older sibling was the golden child. She’s then found herself in abusive relationships. She’s copying how she’s been treated all her life."

Correct but instead of seeking the necessary help (even though narcissists do not do at all well in therapy) she decided to do the same to you as was done to her. She took the low road and I have no sympathy whatsoever for her because she is abusing you. She made a choice to do that and she has made you her personal slave and scapegoat for all her inherent ills.

Where is your dad in all this; I ask only as he is not mentioned.

What is the position re the rental agreement; is there a contract?.

You absolutely need to move out asap and ultimately break free of your mother's malign influences on your life because she will continue to break you from the inside out. Grey rock can be mentally exhausting and its not working on someone as disordered of thinking as your mother is.

You are likely one of the very few, if not the only, people now who at all bothers with her because you've had special training i.e. you are the adult child of a narcissistic parent.

I'm so confused by everything I read here. I loved my father so much, and I mourn his death every day, but he terrified the life out of me until I was ten, when my mother said she was leaving if he didn't stop hitting me. I have a dim memory of that day, and everything was much better as he never hit me any more. It's just that I was much happier before my mother told me that all my memories were absolutely correct and he really had hit me as much as I thought. I was in my 20s and they were getting divorced and tbh I wish it had never been talked about. My father was a very damaged man, and didn't understand parenting but he was mostly loving and clever and caring and by far the most interesting person I knew. So I was angry with my mother for bringing it all back up when she'd done nothing to stop it. Why mention it at all then.

Tootle it’s quite normal to feel love for an abusive parent, it’s what we’re programmed to do. It sounds like your mother did try to stop it? He was abusive to her as well, I would guess.

It’s easier to love a dead person, even if they were damaging, you can make sense of things in your own way. Your living parent is much harder to love as she represents everything that was so dreadful. Are you getting any help with dealing with this? Are you in a relationship?

I’m sorry you’re so lost with all of this, it’s very hard to process. 💐

Sorry I’m not sure how to tag or quote yet

To reply to the above posters.
I’ve never known my father, he’s not been interested in contact. He was physically violent with my mum and I consider myself to have dodged a bullet by not having him in my life.

Both our names are on the tenancy agreement. At the moment she does rely on me financially but she’s back at work so it’s not for much longer. I’m in my mid twenties and in hopefully a couple of years I can afford to get my own place.

No she isn’t physically violent with me, when she throws things it’s in general and not at me.

I can see the view that she’s taken the low road by copying how she’s been treated. This may sound odd but it’s like she doesn’t realise how she is all the time. When I’ve repeated things she’s said back she’s genuinely shocked. She is such a tormented person. I wish she could see this and help herself

Hi. I'm new to this thread and I hope it's ok for me to post here.

This coronavirus situation has been really 'triggering' for me, and I don't really know what to do with myself at this point, to be honest. My mum always had pretty severe (IMO) anxiety. One of the manifestations of this anxiety revolves around health issues. Growing up, whenever flu season came around, I was not allowed to attend after school sports activities or go to my friends' houses to minimise the possibility of me catching anything. This anxiety has also prevented me from attending ski trips, overseas trips, school camps, and the like.

As you can imagine, I soon developed bad anxiety as well. I was that kid in uni who was scared to do anything by herself for goodness' sake! Eventually I saw a therapist for a completely different reason, moved out a couple of months later, moved countries a few years later, and am finally at the stage where I can safely say that I'm mentally in an ok place.

Just now though, I was reading a post and it has brought back so many terrible memories. I know my mum came from a place of love/concern, but I cannot forgive her for all those years.

Up till a few years ago, I had 0 confidence. It's caused me to accept relationships that were in hindsight bordering on toxic, it's caused me to forgo career opportunities, forgo experiences. Hell, I didn't even apply for my first choice of degree because despite having the required grades, I believed that I wasn't smart enough and that there was no way I would succeed because I 'wasn't the type'.

I thought I was past this but now, ironically, I'm afraid that my mum will always be here to torment me despite us having minimal contact.

User can you record her in action , you can play it back to yourself to prove when she has been awful to you and then nice to you when out with others so as not to make you fall for it. I am guilty of this myself. My Mum fools me by being kind and nice to me then she betrays me all over again and l feel so upset and hurt. Hugs my dear this is so horrible for you .

user is achieved by putting an asterisk on either side of the word, puts it in bold.
@User985018 is by typing the @ sign and the username, a list usually comes up.

The problem is that having sympathy for her and seeing her problems as the cause you minimise the damage it’s doing on your own wellbeing. Throwing things and shouting are absolutely abuse, they make you feel upset and afraid I bet?

You must start to separate if you want more peace of mind, spend as much time as possible away from her, hobbies, friends, holidays everything. When you feel she’s overstepping go to your room, get a lock if you can. You won’t change her but you can change what you do. Please do all the reading you can, and make plans. Don’t waste your life living like this.

Cherry I think bizarrely it’s because you’re in a place of safety that you can begin processing this stuff. Children adapt to what’s going on, you adapted to someone with severe issues. I’m sorry that no one stepped in to help you, I bet there were lots of concerned people along the way.

Do you write down what you’re going through? It can be helpful. Even better would be a short burst of talking therapy to process it all.

I’m glad you’ve made a good life for yourself, you are made of strong stuff.

Mrsmad does your mother have any other care in place or is it all on you?

It’s clearly a huge burden on your wellbeing, get all the support you can. It sounds like you need to be a bit kinder to yourself and firmer with those around you.

Herocomplex Thanks for the reply. That post was the first time I've ever written down anything related to all this. I'm just really conflicted because I go through periods of hating or even despising her, and then I almost always feel incredibly guilty afterwards as I can only imagine that it's absolute hell for her living the way she does.

I remember us taking a trip to London when I was maybe 17 and she spent a good chunk of the time being worried that we were going to get scammed or that we would be subjected to a terrorist attack! Yeah, at the time I was afraid too because we were used to this familiar 'safety bubble' back home. I can only imagine that it was a lot worse for her than it was for me.

My grandmother (her mum) was one of those housewives who married young and never left the countryside too so as far as life experiences go, I don't think you can get much narrower than that.

Can any of you give me any advice on how to cope with a narcissist when you can’t go non contact and have to live with them
tricky!
You need some way to don a suit of amour so that you are impervious, might sound trivial but I have found visualization helpful, or watch sci fi videos of someone who has a force field of some kind and mentally construct one for yourself.
Ultimately you need to make a plan so that you can escape

@Mrsmadevans

Thank you for your kind words

@Herocomplex

Thank you for your advice. Yes I’m doing all the reading I can and a plan is in place to move on as soon as I can.

@Ulterego
I love your suggestion, I will work on that visualisation, thank you! Yes I have a plan in mind and I’m working all the hours I can to put it into action.

I will work on that visualisation
it came to me during an EMDR session, I imagined a revisiting a very difficult conversation with the parent, when I went there as 'me' I erupted into furious rage at the parent, then I envisaged myself as a knight in armour mounted on a war horse (with the big jousting thingie:o) with this warrior personna I just laughed at the ridiculousness of the parent, did a 'wheelie' on the horse ( I dont know the correct equestrian term) and galloped off all calm and nonchalant:)
I have a plan in mind
we are glad to hear that you are working on your escape route!!