"But we took you to Stately Homes" January 2020 onwards

[toomuchtooold]

It's January 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I know it's terrible, but my dad did get very sick a few months back and I was hoping it would be the end of him. He's an old man now (in his 70's) and I think it would be best for me, my mum, sister and my darling children if he just left the earth so we could be happy and move on from it all. I don't want to act like a victim, but I feel with have had enough pain now and deserve happiness and a proper family unit.

it isn't terrible!
I will also be very relieved when mine shuffle off this mortal coil and I can finally be free of those bastards!

No its not terrible to feel like that. I had no heartfelt sense of loss at all when my narcissistic FIL died mainly because the only person he ever cared about was his own self.

It’s only terrible that you’ve been made to feel so desperate. Bullying and teasing someone powerless is unforgivable. I understand why you’d want that to stop.

This thread is so helpful when you are feeling low.
Does anyone else feel like the longterm impact of having this type of childhood is almost impossible to get over? Due to the neglect, how dirty I was as a child and the fact that we constantly moved house and schools i had no friends. Now as an adult I have no social skills and have no one. My relationship is poor and I am just very alone. I am in counselling but am struggling with that too. I do try to open up to her but even after I've told her this she is pushing to end the sessions now despite me paying for these and still feeling like I need them.
The long term impact is so huge. I am trying to be positive but being alone is so hard.

Hi Lost12 :)
I'm sorry to hear that you feel so alone, it's good that you can take some solace from these threads, there are lots of us who can relate to how you feel, it IS hard when you start to understand the negative impact of your upbringing:(
I know it's not the same as 'real life' interactions but interacting on here can be a way to develop social skills, I'm a very solitary person but I feel a sense of connection from chatting on MN, whether serious stuff or just shooting the breeze.
Could you change therapist to someone who you feel happier with?

Does anyone else feel like the longterm impact of having this type of childhood is almost impossible to get over?

I definitely feel this way. I think that’s why I’m feeling such extreme anger about my childhood at the moment. It’s affected everything about me as a person and now I don’t know who I am, what my personality is, how to socialise with people... I’m like an empty shell person who has no friends. It’s made worse by the fact the only person I regularly speak to as a result is actually the person who has parented me. I want to go NC but everything is so enmeshed and trapped so I can empathise with trying to be positive but struggling.

everything is so enmeshed and trapped
the 'FOG':( I totally sympathise, I am quite fortunate in that my relationship with RP (RP=random person, because that's what they are to me now) was fairly distant but it was only recently when RP said something callous that really shocked me that I was able to truly feel 'that's it, we are DONE' and break that feeling of obligation.

Yes I’m feeling like that too at the moment and welcome. That’s really rubbish the therapist is trying to end treatment. One of the reasons I went private was so that I can be more in control of how often and how long I see her. That must feel like a rejection and a break in trust - can you try and find someone else? There are lots of different types of therapy so maybe a change would be helpful.

For me it’s not the actual abuse that has me feeling like I’ll never be ok, but the way I feel now because of how my parents let it happen, the way my mum kept in touch with her brother even after he admitted what he’d done, and had a go at me when I gathered all my strength and said that wasn’t ok, and made excuses for him, wouldn’t let me go to court. Stuff like that, and the general lack of care/considering my needs, ever. That’s left me deeply scarred and ironically, even less able to ask for help now that I’m struggling more. I constantly fear being labelled attention seeking and like I shouldn’t complain because my abuse wasn’t THAT bad.

Sorry that wasn’t all meant to spill out there. I’ve been dwelling on stuff a fair bit lately. Wrote another poem this week actually. If I do end up brave enough to post them on my blog (just a very small thing) would it be ok to share a link here?

I can sympathise with people saying about the emeshment and feeling alone. I also feel alone. Had had rubbish friendships and relationships my whole life. I'm a lone parent witg pretty much no support and tbh it's starting to get to me.
Especially with the Caroline flack stuff coming up. People saying they never would have thought she would have done it. But I guess I'm the same I paint a smile on my face at work and to the outside world. People are saying they feel so sorry for her and be kind. Thing is you try tell someone about your struggles and they don't want to listen. That's why I keep it to myself.
My family knows I'm struggling. Have I heard from them? Nope. They all just think about themselves but I'm the one they come to if they want advice about their problems.
I am actually really starting to despise my family. I'm seeing for the first time what selfish people they all are. I'm just the one they like to walk all over.

my parents let it happen, the way my mum kept in touch with her brother even after he admitted what he’d done, and had a go at me when I gathered all my strength and said that wasn’t ok, and made excuses for him, wouldn’t let me go to court
I hear you, my story is very similar, I cant fathom it at all, the way they all collude to silence you:(

you try tell someone about your struggles and they don't want to listen
it's such 'heavy' complex stuff, people find it hard to know what to say, even if they are sympathetic those who had kind supportive parents just dont seem to be able to imagine the effects of cruel & unsupportive parents, and they rationalise things, dont understand the impact of a thousand small cuts.
but I'm the one they come to if they want advice about their problems
It's time to shut them down Crafty, give them a 'talk to the hand' response

Crazy isn’t it ulter - even as a teen (I was 13ish when I first told) I was wondering how the fuck anyone can not put their own abused child before someone else but now, having my own kids? I just cannot imagine. But it screwed me up, I actually posted a frowned upon reverse thread about it once, as my mum being the one wanting to keep in touch with her brother. I was so desperate to understand the other viewpoint but I don’t think there was a single response that agreed with her side.

Making notes for a third poem I think I woke the beast.

ulter I guess that's true. When I used to walk around naively before my son was born. Before I met abusive ex I used to be quite happy. Mainly because I didn't understand my childhood wasn't normal and I thought things were good. I used to struggle to understand people who were upset or depressed. How awful of me really. I guess it true when they say you only really understand when you've been through it. Its why this thread is so helpful. Everyone understands here.
Yes I've begun distancing myself and not wanting to listen. I haven't heard from them all weekend. It's funny that they only wanted to know when they knew I would listen to them or panda to them.

@Crafty11 I so get that about actually feeling sort of happier when I was younger. Of course looking back I actually wasn't - I just masked everything with too many drinks and drugs and hanging round with the wrong people. Also, I had no responsibilities, didn't care about getting into debt, and wasn't bothered about job satisfaction or any other grown up stuff.

I only got my first proper job 11 years ago when I finally woke the fuck up and realised how self-destructive I was being. I started saving like mad and managed to buy somewhere about 5 years ago and ditched all the rotten friends and boyfriends.

But ironically I've felt a lot more unhappy ever since because I realise how much damage my childhood did to me and how much time I wasted and how little I achieved. And it's hard making new friends in your late 30s particularly when nobody taught you how to make friends. So I also felt completely alone and still do a lot of the time.

Caroline Flack really upset me. So much hypocrisy about her situation.

And if she can be prosecuted for allegedly whacking a cheating boyfriend with a lamp then why the hell can't our parents be prosecuted for what they did for us? They really are silent killers.

drink and drugs and hanging around with the wrong people
Hehe, are you me? 😅🙈

silent killers
Yes it's all done by stealth.... well they can also be ghosted by stealth 👻

how much time I wasted and how little I achieved
well maybe but I think during those phases of 'drink and drugs and hanging around with the wrong people' one is also sharpening ones instincts, learning the ways of the shark ....all the better to counter any future attacks

@Ulterego true. And without the drink and the drugs I probably wouldn't have hung around with anyone. At least E helped me start connecting with people.

I try not to spend too much time thinking about the what could have been. It's one day at a time at the moment but having my mother completely out of my life is definitely making those days start to get easier.

And you've been a massive help on here - thank you. Love your strength and your fierceness.

Just woke up and cant get back to sleep. lemon I used to drink and party too much too. Now I see how destructive my behavior was. It was just me acting out from all those strict years of not being able to go anywhere or go out with friends. Also coupled with my unhealthy upbringing around alcohol. I was known as the party girl. When I had my DS those "friends" abandoned me.

My parents used to allow me to get so drunk at parties at their friends houses with their friends kids who were my age. Think it was just so I was out of their hair. I was about 14 when I was allowed. My dad binges now and parties alot and always has. However I'm now tee total which I'm happy about. Alcohol makes me anxious and depressed and I hate the out of control feeling now.

But yes I can so relate to death by lots of cuts. One thing alone might seem small to the outside world but to you it's a constant. They all add up.

lemon BTW you should be really proud how you turned your life around. Takes alot of determination

Oh thank you Lemon🥰
(I have also wondered about the therapeutic benefits of MDMA but never actually tried it)
I have also started to feel a lot more free and lighter now that I've made the decision to completely cut ties from the final parent, I know I've said this before on here but I find that if you don't respond at all it can be a good technique to draw them out so that they show all their cards.
When I first indicated by text that I'd be out of contact they responded 'if you want to shut me out I just have to accept it' expecting that that would make me feel guilty and I would come running back apologetically. I maintained the silence and then the person just carried on as normal sending me chatty texts as if nothing had happened.
Recently presumably in raised by the continued silence (lack of deference to the almighty 🙄) they contacted my partner quoting to him my text, it was all very 'look how unreasonable she's being' clearly expecting my partner to agree and possibly form an alliance and stage an intervention or something😱.
For context there is something very difficult going on in my life, the parent has been weird cold and unsympathetic about it, in the message to my partner the parent wrote what they really think about it basically that it's nothing and I should just put it out of my mind. Upon reading it I was more rageous than I have ever been but when I calmed down a few days later I realised that they had given me the grounds that I need to end it completely without feeling any guilt, they really are dead to me now, nothing to me now.

Im glad other posters are talking about enmeshment. On reading up about this I realise that this is exactly what my family are like, DM cannot see us as seperate entities from her. She lives through us and sees us as an extension of herself. Her DM was exactly the same. The whole enxtended family is completley entangled in each other.

manon this was exactly what I was talking about in my counselling today. My counsellor said the recurrent theme was it seemed me and my sister were extensions of her. I also said I felt she lived through me the "golden child". All my achievements were hers. She pushed me so hard but only when it was in her best interests. As soon as that opportunity gave me the chance to break away she would put doubts in my mind and fill me with anxiety so I stayed.

As soon as that opportunity gave me the chance to break away she would put doubts in my mind and fill me with anxiety so I stayed

Yes, this sounds familiar. When I was 18/19 I was on the verge of signing up to become a holiday rep for the summer and DM did absolutely everything in her power to stop me doing it. Even getting one of my cousins who'd done the same job to try and talk me out of it, instead she told me it was brilliant opportunity and I should do it! DM was fuming about that, but in the end wore me down and I didnt go. Likewise when I went to Uni she manipulated me into going to one that was nearby so I didn't have to move away and live in.

She did similar to DB. She cannot bare the thought of us not being close at hand at all times.