"But we took you to Stately Homes" January 2020 onwards

[toomuchtooold]

It's January 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

God they’re determined Ulter, they’re not going to be thwarted are they?

I’ve thought about it a bit too. I came to the conclusion that I can delete messages, and if it keeps them feeling on top so be it. As long as they don’t up the ante and make an appearance at my door.

I’m not changing my number though, too inconvenient. Why should I??

Hero, yes I find it extremely distasteful the way that this person is forcing them self on me ☹️ however I have realised some things, my other parent 'Z' did not put up much of a fight there was very little in the way of stalking, I feel as if that's because Z had acquired a much younger spouse and felt secure that said spouse would provide and care for them in their old age.
However the parent that I am currently wrestling with 'W' has a partner but they are not younger and they have their own health problems and family issues to deal with, it's very clear to me that W is determined to draw me into the role of personal assistant 🙄
For the past few years W has been eyeing me up like the witch in Hansel and Gretel, 'ooh look at my fit healthy daughter that will do nicely, she can be a comfort to me in my old age'
W is pursuing me out of naked self interest because they see me as an asset to which they have a right of access, now I understand why W insisted on keeping up a pattern of regular visits over the years even though I clearly did not welcome their company🙄

I think you're right though, it's best not to change the number, if that is detected by W they might see it as an escalation and respond by escalating and turning up at my door😲
Oh the horror
😳😳😳😳

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you for again reassuring me that I am not going mad.

Every time they contact you they’re effectively telling you to ‘stop this silly nonsense’ and that your feelings don’t matter. At least you understand clearly what’s motivating the contact, and it sure isn’t anything good for you. Keep deleting.

I found myself having a five minute feel-sorry-for-my-Dad this morning, thinking about how he had no idea how to help me when I was struggling with my mental health when I was a teenager other than to tell me how he dealt with feeling sad. I’m so programmed to forgive that these thoughts are hard to push away. Maybe January blues...

Telling you how he dealt with feeling sad is a way of saying 'there's nothing really wrong you're just sad' isn't it Hero? ie just a way of minimising.
If you had no idea how to help your child with a serious problem then you would do the work of finding out how to help wouldn't you, rather than just making it easy for yourself by categorising the problem as 'nothing important' and dealing with it on that basis.
Or perhaps it is more fundamental, the parent has always had you (as I think mine have) in the category of 'things that don't matter' therefore any problems of yours are automatically in the category of 'things that don't matter'
(Apologies if I misunderstood what you were saying)

Neither of my parents really believe in depression I don’t think, it’s a sort of self-indulgence. Easier to think like that, nice and neat and tidy. Actually most illnesses are self-inflicted in their view, my DM has very little time for illness or weakness in family members. You just need to follow the advice in the Daily Mail and you’ll sort it out in no time.

I can’t even think about the ‘things that don’t matter’ idea at the moment. That’s very painful, isn’t it?

And no,no apology needed, you have understood very well 🙂

Thanks for the welcome :)

Don't worry hero, I'm not "in a place" where I'm gonna harm myself right now, my depression is mostly controlled by my ADs, and my anxiety has been massively calmed by having a partner who understands. The main problem I'm having at the moment is my sleep - but I've been knackering myself out at the gym to help with that.

I'm weighing up at the moment whether it would be beneficial to speak to my dr about it, or not. I feel silly going there in my mid-thirties and saying "actually, I lied every time I talked about my past - and I now think I have ptsd from my childhood". If I could get straight to the psych who I saw before with no gatekeeping I think I could manage it, it's that which puts me off. I've had bad experiences of mh referrals that went nowhere thanks to shitty gatekeepers

I’m pleased Beyond that you’re not hurting yourself physically at the moment. it sounds like you’re holding yourself very rigidly in place, which is really hard to do. If you’re tempted do you have strategies to deal with it?

I hear you loud and clear about the gatekeepers, the idea of going through referral can be very triggering. It’s so tempting to revert to the internal safe space of managing things yourself.

It’s not silly at all to be in your thirties and dealing with childhood stuff, read back though these threads and there are people in their sixties and seventies just starting to address their unresolved trauma. You’re facing yours now, while you’re still a young woman. I think most people would say that it’s only when you have a safe distance in place you can start to think about things.

It’s a vicious circle though, make yourself vulnerable by asking for help, risk making things worse, don’t make any changes, stay the same, or get worse.

Is there any chance you could see the person you trusted before on a privately funded basis? Or could you write to them,perhaps?

Are you feeling boundaried now? Do you have a strong sense of keeping yourself safe? I’m glad you’ve found a loving partner, that’s a very good place to be for you, from what you’re saying.

Sleeplessness is horrible. You’re in turmoil, I know it’s a cliche but maybe some meditation? It works for quite a few people I know.

Hi everyone posted on here before under different names. Put a post on AIBU and got ripped to shreds. Told I was pathetic, to grow up, got major issues. Which I know I have issues and I'm having counselling for. Some people understood on there. So thought I'd post here instead.

Mum messaged me yesterday to say her and my dad are going away boxing day this year. We had already had a chat and she moaned she didn't want to go away with friends as it was the Christmas period and wants to spend it with family and my and Dsis children. I didn't really say alot and just said well yea I know you love Christmas etc. I'm a single parent so won't have DS Christmas day but instead boxing day and felt I would be alone after her sudden change of mind. I think yes IBU as she's an adult and can do what she likes. Maybe I'm being selfish for wanting her to be here but I feel disappointment I think. Like she's letting me down. That feeling when you get your hopes up and then get dropped. When I said about it not once did she acknowledge my feelings of being upset. I guess I was took back to my childhood in a way.

I am having counselling and will discuss this situation with her but I just can't help but feel sad and let down. Even though I know I'm acting like a child.

any one?

Hi Crafty, I saw your other post and had a feeling you'd get grief, best not to open up to people who have normal family dynamics. I think you've hit the nail on the head, the problem is her not acknowledging your feelings... as usual. So the lack of empathy, and sympathy to your situation. That's what's not normal and you greive for the child that never had that but should have from her own mother.

Crafty Also if I'm linking you to the right previous (seasonal?) names then I am guessing that your father may have had some say in their decision to go away, and you are feeling that she is putting his want ahead of what she actually wants? Sorry if I'm outing you or got it wrong.

Hi @Crafty11 I saw your thread, you did get a hammering and I’m sorry, it probably made it all much worse. MN seems to be very aggressive at the moment.

You feel very vulnerable and as if your parents don’t really hear you, you want them to consider your feelings and you don’t think they’re thinking about you at all. What is the rest of your life like, do you spend a lot of time with them?

@freshstart01 yes that's me. It's OK it's not outing I just change my name from time to time :) yes feel like he prob had a say in it too and she has a hard time say no to other people. Never had an issue saying no to me or my sister though.

@herocomplex I know I felt some comments were rather aggressive. I used to see them more. I've cut back contact and don't tell my mum as many things about my personal life which has helped.

Sorry to others having such a tough few days.

I need to vent. After avoiding my delightful mother for the last week or so in my bid to reduce contact I spoke to her today as it was dd's birthday. Thought I'd done well with the "medium chill" technique from the out of the fog website until the end when she brought up the too small clothes she'd bought for me for Xmas. Just . As if she's some stick insect and didn't pass on all her unhealthy emotional attachments to food and about body image to me in the first place. Off to drink wine and eat dd's cake. And breath. (I'm a happy and healthy if slightly round size 14 - not that it makes any difference really but it's hardly like I have a huge problem)

Yestea
that sounds infuriating, it's so hard not to just feel really angry the instant they do something like that, if only we could switch off the anger so that our brains could come up with the perfect retort, instead you just want to punch them in the throat 😡
Maybe turn that medium chill right down to liquid nitrogen level?

Stately Homes People, I bring you....'the capacity to give up on people', by the school of life
I found this video very soothing some pearls of wisdom in there I think?
m.youtube.com/watch?v=VDKOY0ZTDPI

About specified violent rhetoric...

I realise that such fantasies are cathartic for some (many?), and I'm certainly not aiming to police anyone else's expressions,

... but does anyone else here respond (/react) to it more like I do? ie. find it really triggering?
I'm curious.

My best wishes to all who reside/visit here.

😂 liquid nitrogen @Ulterego

Brilliant. I do think I need to try to use homour more. Laughing is so helpful in general and could really help stop a toxic person in their tracks.

That video is very insightful

Maybe a visualization would also be helpful, imagine you can shoot that liquid nitrogen effect out of your eyes when you're with these types:o

Hi, only me again.

A few months ago I posted a thread on AIBU about how when I was growing up my parents would have incrediably loud sex when they knew that DB and I were sleeping, or not very often, just feet away (obviously in our rooms but still close enough to hear everything). There was absolutely no attempt to keep the noise down. My DM was the main culprit, wailing and shrieking like something from a porn film.

To a lot of people this would probably seem quite funny, but I used to hate it and can still remember feeling anxious at night if I happened to be awake when they went to bed. With hindsight I find it incrediably disturbing, I don't have kids but if I did I'd be utterly horrified if they over heard me having sex. Actually I'd be horrified if anyone did, but I work with children now and I know that if a child disclosed this to me now it would be something I'd probably need to flag up as a child protection issue.

On the thread I was told by several posters that this was abusive behaviour. Ive been working it out in my head ever since. I remember one occasion where I was about eight and they both popped their heads in my room, saw I was awake, wished me goodnight and then proceeded to have loud sex. They knew I was awake and didn't even attempt to keep it down. I say 'they' but really do mean my DM as she was the one making all the noise.

I mean WTF? Its so wrong isnt it? I dont even know how to put it into words!

Manon, yes! It is so wrong!!
My mum too. :(

It's so callous and vile isn't it 😕😳 they do it to humiliate and intimidate I think 😖

Very wrong manon. Has she ever mentioned it since you've grown up? It is quite disturbing on her behalf