"But we took you to Stately Homes" January 2020 onwards

[toomuchtooold]

It's January 2020, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

What’s your contact with her at the moment Manon? Are you thinking about past stuff a lot?

Nope she’s never mentioned it. Never did. We’d get up the next morning and it was like an elephant in the room, never ever discussed. She either didn’t know I could hear, or just didn’t care. I think probably think the latter TBH.

As I’m sure is the same for all of you, we were never a family that discussed things openly and so I never mentioned it, if I had she’d have hit the roof no doubt. Her needs always took precedent.

I think DB May have heard as well. When we were a teens he made a bit of a joke about it, and was shot down with a ‘well how do you think you got here?!’

I should add once again as you will all understand, there were few boundaries in our house DM would often barge into our rooms without knocking etc.

Her needs always took precedent
that's it isn't it, it was her way of showing that she's The empress and you have no power and no rights in this household, you are mere peasants who don't even matter and don't even have a room to call your own
It's also a covert way of bragging about her sexual prowess, all very weird, horrible and a bit 'rose West' 😖

The rule in our house was always that everyone must KNOCK, AND WAIT before entering anyone's room. In practice of course mum didn't feel her own rule applied to her, only to us. So barging into my room was frequent.
I would always knock and wait.
Once, when I was around 8 or 9 years old I knocked, waited, and when my mum clearly said "Come in!", I opened the door.
You'll be able to guess roughly what I was confronted with. My dad was alarmed and clearly not in any way okay with me witnessing anything. But in his shock and uncoordinated efforts to spring away and cover up I got a far more graphic eyeful than I would have if he's stayed put/carried on!
Later, over dinner, mum was joking about it. I could feel my face turn beetroot. I couldn't speak. She, laughing, took me through to the next room "so we can chat just us girls". She told me I knew to knock and wait, that I shouldn't have opened the door. I said "but I did knock, I did wait, you said 'come in'!"

I was so confused. She did a tinkly affected giggle and told me "well, I must have been talking to daddy!" - conspiratorial nudge chuckle whatever

Fast forward a couple of years, new man now. That's when the moaning and wailing and so on started up.
In our home the pretence was actually that I could (and must) talk to mum about EVERYTHING. I still thought she was basically in good faith back then, and for a long time after. I would try to take her at her word and raise things I was uncomfortable with. With hindsight just made me more vulnerable. but, anyway, I did bring "the noise" up with her. Big mistake. Certainly never gave her pause. On the other hand that man she was with was actually a decent bloke, and after I brought it up in front of him as well he clearly made efforts to stop it.

It'd be moan moan ahhhh - and then him going Shhh! Please! He'd end up stopping whatever he was doing because she wouldn't keep the noise down. Cue angry accusations from my mum to me that I was being selfish, immature, pathetic, me-me-me, a drama queen, I was ruining her sex life, wasn't she entitled to a life of her own? to have fun? to be HAPPY? Couldn't I be happy FOR HER?? I needed to get over myself, grow up, etc. Why am I so HORRIBLE to her?? I must want her to be MISERABLE. tc etc on and on and on.

That man left.
Next one was about as far from a decent bloke as possible to get. So the noisy shagging came back, worse because added to the moan moan wail you had actual words from them both and BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANGBANGBANGBANGBANG.

:(

It is sexual abuse. Entitled bizarre attitude and no boundaries.

I still don't fully get the mindset that allows someone to inflict these things on their children's ears or eyes and feel it's their right to do so.

Sorry manonblackbeak, I remember all-too-well that knot in my stomach, lack of sleep, confusion and ick. :(

Hi all,

So I posted a few weeks ago and now on my 4th session of therapy and I can really see an improvement.

Anyway, I've had a baby (6 months old) had a night away two weeks ago (husband booked me and a friend hotel night away) I checked in to say I was there. My mum messaged to say:

"Just to let you know, I'm divorcing your step dad, sorry to text you on your night away"

Anyway, I was furious that I was told via text on my night away. I replied and said I couldn't deal with it mentally right now. She responded and said "ok".

Next morning, I receive a text saying "hope you had a relaxing night away"

I just can't reply- I have no idea what to say ! So over the last couple of weeks I've had messages asking how I am.... but I am still so dumb struck re the first message that I don't know what to say!

Why is life so mentally exhausting sometimes!?

Probably time for a name change!

Hi Craving glad the therapy is going well.

You know she did that on purpose. I’m guessing at the moment you’re just not sure what to do. I think if you confront her she’ll put you in the position where you’re apologising for something. Have a think about what you want to do.

Keep moving forward to healthy boundaries and prioritising your wellbeing.

Sorry that was a xpost not a response to craving
Struggling rather at the moment
though i suppose actual name change is one way to escape the drama of these people! [shrug] :) apologies

It is sexual abuse. Entitled bizarre attitude and no boundaries
I still don't fully get the mindset that allows someone to inflict these things on their children's ears or eyes and feel it's their right to do so
I agree it is sexual abuse, she is enjoying your discomfort and humiliation, her having no shame means that all the shame goes on you, the innocent child.
Idk how much is thought it out and how much is instinctive but, imo, it's about lording it over you, she is flaunting her sexual power over men in order to crush and humiliate you, she wants to make sure you have hang ups and feel weird about sex so that you can never be the 'femme fatale' that she see's herself to be.
That (in her mind) is the source of her power, she wants to make sure that you are too humiliated to drink from the same well:(
Thats my response to your post LongDarkBlues.

Hi Craving:)
sorry to text you on your night away
presume she was hoping that you would say 'that's ok' and then spend your night away, your treat, tending to her emotional needs!
on thing that occurs is that with this response
I said I couldn't deal with it mentally right now
you are giving info away that can later be used against you(unless you want to use mental health issues as a get out?)

Definitely sexual abuse and its made me feel a bit sick reading your stories, I'm so sorry you went through this. Makes me see the benefits of growing up in a house where parents couldn't stand each other and had seperate bedrooms, I guess I lucked out after all.

OMG LongDarkBlue that’s so awful. I just don’t understand the mindset. I would actually die of embarrassment if someone ever heard me make the racket my DM did.

The best thing is DM was actually pretty prudish and straight laced the rest of the time.

Hi, I have just realised my mum is a narc. She has no empathy for my dad who is battling a serious illness. He is on the verge of a care home and she wont assist or acknowledge he needs help. I called social services for help for him last week because she didn't have time apparently and she is retired. She has him waiting on her hand and foot driving her places and he can barely stand and has no strength. Im at a loss what to do!! She has fallen out with me because i told her yesterday things have to change and she needs to assist dad 😭😭

I tried to take over as official carer but i cant as i am the son and she classifys herself as the carer. 😢

Greydove that sounds just terrible, I’m so sorry.

Do you have any support yourself, a DP? Any siblings? Do you live with them?

You say your dad might be going into a care home, does he want to? Can you talk to his GP?

It doesn’t sound like you want to step back from them at the moment, but the Out of The Fog website has got some useful advice for disconnecting a bit emotionally.

Best of luck.

Someone directed me here from my post about the birthday card and my dad.
Basically we had a big bust up because I didn't send him a birthday text before 1pm and there was no money or giftcard in his card. My mother (they are divorced ) has serious mental health issues and has gone off the grid so going to have to tell social services to do a welfare check so it hasn't been great .

me and DH aren't big into birthday celebrations apart from milestone birthdays and kids birthdays which is why I find the birthday thing so odd , in future I will be making sure I put a card in the post but I won't be having any real relationship for a while or if at all
When me and DH moved in with him for 3 months while we were looking for a house to buy he put us in the conservatory with a 9 month old baby we could have had my brother's (golden child's ) room hes in the armed forces but my dad said no it's your brother's room because he's weirdly inflexible denying your
DGC a warm room because it's golden child's but who is away anyway but if I disagree with him he calls me mad.

Didn't come to visit newborn DD in hospital where she was in SCBU for a week but could be bothered to travel to see golden child's armed forces parade.
Never comes to visit, although I lived 15 minutes away , when I got poorly I needed someone to take care of DD just for a day . Dad said no and PILs had to drive 3 hours to help out .

Then last year dad was admitted to hospital with a heart condition, then the neediness began although he never really cared before about being in touch he wanted everyone to keep vigil by his bedside with his GF there as well. He had depression at the time and I did my best although I was resentful of him he started to shout at me because I said something he didn't agree with he told me to stop bringing my madness with me (he loves to say I'm mad like my mother).

I'm finding reasons to be thankful I have a beautiful kind DD who is everything to me, wonderful PILs and wonderful friends.

Hi @lilly0102

Welcome 💐

It’s often ‘small’ events that tip us over the edge into recognising that we need to stop being part of a dysfunctional abusive relationship. You got a few on your thread who couldn’t really see why you wouldn’t fix the problem. Except you’ve been fixing and patching all your life, and now you can stop.

Your dad is making you miserable, he’s obviously got loads of problems but it’s quite clear you can’t help him because he doesn’t want it, he just wants to use you as an outlet for his misery.

You can step back. At the beginning of this thread is a list of reading, it helps to understand what’s happening and what your options are.

It’s not about revenge or punishment, it’s about protecting yourself.

You don’t have to do anything about him, not call or text or see him, if you choose not to. Be very careful who you talk to about it, most people won’t understand although some will, like on your thread.

This is a very confusing time, you’re so used to being a dutiful daughter, and it’s a hard habit to break. This is not about a birthday card.

Hi Lilly 😊
Sorry to hear that your dad has been such a bastard towards you 😡
Feels like he's trying to drag you down and destabilize you so that he can just fall on you with all his various problems.
The birthday card being is a a manufactured crisis...every manipulative toxic predatory person instinctively understands ('smells') that a crisis is a brilliant opportunity, everyone is stressed and confused if they can control the narrative they can get what they want.
Don't let him fall on you, you don't want to get stuck under that big lump girl....cut loose!
Seriously, if you don't escape he will drain all the energy out of you and leave you a withered husk before going on to find the next person that he can destroy to make himself feel better🙄

Lilly,
He wanted everyone to keep vigil by his bedside and feed him sympathy and then he started shouting at you?
Wtf!!
Tell him, don't bite the hand that feeds you mate it might punch you in the throat😡
what's in it for you, what do you have to lose by cutting this bastard completely out of your life?
Absolutely nothing, amirite?

lilly0102

Your father was not a good parent to you (an understatement) to you when you were growing up and he has not changed an iota since then. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles and yours is still very much one of scapegoat for all his inherent ills.

He is also a rubbish example of a grandfather to your child and she needs to be kept well away from him too. The usual rule applies; if a relative is too toxic for YOU to deal with, its the same deal for your child too.

It is not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking so do not further knock yourself out trying. Such people too never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. You do not owe this man anything, let alone a relationship here.

Please find a therapist (BACP are good) and find someone at that who has NO familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of abuse or mistreatment. It may be a good idea also to keep posting here and also read the Out of the Fog website.

Help!

I've posted before about my NM but after a little advice RN if possible....

We were nearly at wk5 of silent treatment, hadn't heard a peep from her since Hogmanay (which was just a generic happy-new-year-firework-emoji text). She was clearly in a huff about something unbeknownst to us. She usually sees my DD (18mo) about once a week but hasn't so much as asked about her since Christmas.

I've been LOVING the silent treatment. I've used it to mentally prepare to go NC. Written lists of examples of her toxic behaviour and was excited for the future without her in my life. I heeded advice from this forum by not sending an email/letter stating my intention to go NC.......but have woken up to a text this morning saying "did I miss a call from you last night? I'll call you later". She has now called me 4 times and left a VM saying "it's clearly not a convenient time so I will try later".

I don't want to talk to her. I don't have the balls to tell her to do one over the phone. I am worried she will just turn up at my house. I feel like now I'm the bad guy by not answering etc as she's "made the effort". I feel like unless I send a letter or something that she'll just keep on trying?

Her suddenly getting in touch is also making me immediately forget the majority of the reasons I wanted to go NC even though my reaction when she calls is to stick my finger up at the phone and shout "go away" rather than talk to her.

Any advice as to what I should do?

I went NC with my entire family as a result of my nightmare sister's histrionic behaviour (which is exactly how my mother used to behave). Both brothers alcoholics. It really was a case of one day saying, no more, I am not going to do this any more.

It had got to the point when the sight of a family number coming up on my phone made me feel physically sick.

Going NC broke my heart. The first 18 months was awful - it's like a grieving process.

But I've stuck to my guns and now can say hand on heart it's the best decision I ever made. I don't want to have anything to do with any of them. I will not attend my mother's funeral when she goes. She was a terrible mother and used to beat shit out of me.

I have never explained my position to any of them. Just cut them off then cut them out. I don't give a flying fuck what any of them thinks. They sure as shit never gave a flying fuck about me.

Hi babesinthewood

re this part of your comment

" heeded advice from this forum by not sending an email/letter stating my intention to go NC.......but have woken up to a text this morning saying "did I miss a call from you last night? I'll call you later". She has now called me 4 times and left a VM saying "it's clearly not a convenient time so I will try later".

I don't want to talk to her. I don't have the balls to tell her to do one over the phone. I am worried she will just turn up at my house. I feel like now I'm the bad guy by not answering etc as she's "made the effort". I feel like unless I send a letter or something that she'll just keep on trying?"

Radio silence from you needs to be maintained; ANY response from you is the "reward" here. DO NOT respond at all to such hoovering attempts!!!. If she turns up at your house do not answer the door. I would also now block her number from your phone; this could possibly be seen as harassment as well. Its certainly unwanted contact and she's been sneaky with it re she thinking that she got a missed call from you. Utter bitch.

What your mother is doing here is something many toxic people do when their now adult child decides not to have any further to do with them; that toxic parent hoovers. She is NOT making an effort at all; she is merely hoovering to try and attempt some control over you.

Hoovering is an abuse tactic frequently used by people who struggle with narcissistic, borderline, antisocial, and histrionic personality disorders. Named after the Hoover vacuum cleaner, hoovering is basically a way of “sucking” a person back into an abusive relationship. Hoovering is typically done after a long period of no contact between the victim and the abuser. In an attempt to regain control over their victims, hoovering abusers will use manipulation tactics that target their victim’s soft spots and emotional vulnerabilities. If they are successful, the hoovering abuser will use their victim until they are bored of them and discard of them once again.

Like predators, a narcissist knows how to manipulate the weaknesses of those they have preyed on before. They will try to entice you through random texts, apologies, declarations of undying love, and “repentant” gestures which try to convince you how much they have “changed” and “care” for you. The truth is that narcissists couldn’t care less about you, and their attempts to win your trust are all fabrications that are part of their sick game. Because of their severe soul loss and inability to show any form of empathy, a narcissist will say any lie and go to any extent to get you back under their control.

She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she should not see your child either; toxic people often become toxic as grandparents too. If she is too toxic/difficult/batshit for YOU to deal with its the same deal for your child too.

Hi everyone,

My first time posting on the stately homes thread but seasoned poster on MN. Just wanted to offer some support for @babesinthehood and validate @Sicario's experiences about NC with NM/families. I have been totally NC for nearly five years. First with my NM who handed me the excuse to go from LC to NC on a plate. Gave me an ultimatum, shape up and go back to being her satellite, or ship out. I chose to ship out.

However, it hasn't been easy and I went through a whole grieving process especially as it meant going NC with my brother (golden child), step father (enabler) and anyone else associated with her. It also cemented NC for my daughter, not that they bothered with her anyway.

It was real grief that I went through - feelings of loss, anger, abandonment, you name it and I am still not completely over it. I find Christmas particularly difficult as society shoves the happy family fantasy down your neck and people with normal families don't really understand. But it does get better, you will survive and move on. I no longer have the anxiety, frustration, anger and disappointment of trying to deal with the continual crap and madness. In a weird way I feel 'reborn'. I am the person I am meant to be and I like myself. Could never have said that before. My only regret is I didn't get the courage to do it sooner but I didn't have MN then.

Oh and I have the occasional attempt to drag me back in. My brother texted me randomly last summer about meeting up as if nothing had happened. He seemed to have completely forgotten what he did and didn't do when I went through my divorce (threw my under the bus, supported my ex-husband etc etc). I was strong enough to ignore and I have to admit a tingle of triumph that he probably can't understand me not reacting to him.

There really isn't anything to go back for Ops. As my therapist says 'you can feel sorry for a rabid dog, you don't have to pet it'

Babes, what Attila said
BLOCK
Every avenue that she uses to contact you block it, if she sends anything through the post burn it do not let any of her words get in your brain. Every new number that she uses to contact you on, block it immediately.
Do it, it is IMMENSELY satisfying😎🌞😎
let her experience total radio silence, in her mind where you were, now there will be a void, nothing that she can fight with, argue with, nothing that she can get to grips with.
You have gone to ground and she is trying to lure you out so that she can exploit you, do not take the bait, it contains poison.
Imagine her as a person with a fishing rod, that little message and the missed calls...that's the worm wiggling on a nasty sharp hook and if you take that worm she will reel you in