"But we took you to Stately Homes" November 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's November 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
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March 2011
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October-November 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

It's a real shame that your mother wasn't able to transcend and overcome her childhood Rainbow of course people who are damaged deserve help and support but that doesn't mean we have to let them damage us.
Protect yourself from your mother, get the best life you can for yourself, you deserve it🌻🌞🌻

I'm so sorry to read so many of your posts, sadly, I think I belong on this thread too :(
This is my first mumsnet post, but I've been reading on here for a while and the links have been really useful as I try to process my own experiences and try to figure out where to go next.

I don't even know where to begin, such a dysfunctional upbringing, with sometimes physical and verbal abuse, abandonment, secrets and lies. I'm mid 30's now, and only now realising how far from normal it all was. It shocks me now to realise that as kids, we accept everything as normal.

I am married with my own children now, and desperately want to be a solid, stable parent and give them the security that all children deserve. I know there is no 'perfect' parent, but my children mean everything to me, and its sad as the penny is finally dropping that that just wasn't how my parents felt about me, nor feel about me now.

I don't know what to do next, as I worry for my children picking up on how I was treated, and to a certain extent being made to feel bad about themselves or unloved by their grandparents who don't bother with them for months, or years at a time. Then when they decide to, they'll suddenly pop back up and act like nothing has happened. Its confusing for me, and I feel like I need to protect them from the inconsistency.

Once again some very interesting insights on here. My DM has always said, half jokingly half not, that she wished DB and had stayed babies forever. An odd thing to say, but now I realise that babies can’t yet talk and are dependant on their care givers.

Welcome to the thread, Sweetest . I am very new to posting, but have been reading for a while. It is amazing how many people here realise the degree of dysfunction once they have children of their own, often in their thirties. Certainly the case for me, with regards the emotional abuse, but I never felt comfortable with my parents, because of the very regular physical abuse. Even then, though, it took ages for me to accept the level of damage done.

Once you realise the extent of the dysfunction, and the way it is being passed on to your children, it's almost impossible to ignore. Low contact, followed by no contact, seems inevitable.

I am sure you can get through this difficult time, because you are putting your children first and that's amazing!

I’m another poster who has dipped into this thread numerous times and found it very revealing and thought-provoking. I’m posting for the first time to get some advice but will try and contribute as well, as it’s such a supportive community, but objective as well.

I’m 50, with a younger sister of 43. To try and summarise a very long story, my mother is a very strong, controlling woman, my father essentially goes along with her and my sister (who was very ill when born) is very close to them - I’ve often felt the odd one out, child and adult. After years of going through the cycle of thinking we had a good relationship and everything was fine, then finding out my parents weren’t happy with the relationship and had a list of issues (which were always caused by me) and them wanting to ‘get things back to normal’ or ‘back on track’ and me facilitating because I wanted a positive relationship, I stood my ground this time last year and refused to be drawn back in. Cue a lot of pressure and emotional blackmail via phone and email from my father, followed by them insisting on visiting us to attempt to clear the air. I again stood my ground, with my husband’s support, wasn’t rude but wouldn’t give in to the pressure - and my mother said some horrible things as a way of trying to make me. It was like she was looking for a weak point and when one thing didn’t work, she would try something else. I’ve usually been the one to maintain contact with them - which my husband pointed out to them, and I took a step back after this meeting last January. My sister then sent a couple of horrible letters, obviously at their bidding, and has essentially sided with them (I don’t want to play sides, but that is what it feels like). We responded factually to her initial letter, which was then twisted in her response, so I told her I refused to get drawn into the negativity and wanted to focus on being positive and enjoying life.

I sent flowers for my mother’s birthday in March (but nothing for Mother’s Day) and they weren’t acknowledged. They ignored the email invitation to them and my sister for my youngest child’s 18th birthday celebration in March, generic card for my 50th in May, then a couple of passive-aggressive postcards through the year.

Far from being broken-hearted at this low/minimal contact it’s been wonderful. I’ve had some counselling and done a lot of thinking and a lot of grieving for the relationships I don’t and will never have. I sent gifts to my sister’s children at Christmas, a card to my sister and to my parents and nothing more. I’ve also made it clear to my three adult children that they are free to have whatever relationship they want with my parents and my sister and shouldn’t feel that they have to follow my line.

I don’t want to see either my parents or my sister. A card arrived from my parents over the pre-Christmas weekend (I was out of the country and didn’t get back until late on the Sunday) mentioning that my sister’s family were coming to them on Boxing Day and ‘it would be lovely if we could come’. I don’t trust them and feel it’s them being manipulative/throwing out a line to try and re-engage me. I am about to send out my very delayed Christmas/New Year cards and am trying to decide whether or not to state in the cards to my parents and my sister that I don’t want to see them or to exchange gifts (my sister sent a birthday gift and sent a Betty’s gift box to me and do - this has gone to the food bank) but am happy to exchange cards at birthdays and Christmas.

So - thank you if you got this far - should I state my position to my parents and sister, or should I simply carry on as I am? If I do say something, it’s likely to trigger another shit storm, but I will have set out my boundaries. If I simply carry on as I am, I’m half waiting for the other shoe to drop, which essentially gives them power over me.

Yes, they seemed to love their GC when they were babies, and possibly toddlers. They were still very critical of them, and the way DH and I parented. I always felt like I was defending myself, DH, and DC to them. It was like we were never good enough!

Everything Dippydog (and others) resonates, and this sums it up for how things were with my F. I somehow thought he might redeem himself for being a terrible F when I was a child, I had this vision of him being a loving GF, plus DH's DF had late stage Parkinson's then died when DD1 was just a couple of weeks old, so I thought I was doing the right thing or my DDs wouldn't experience having a GF at all. And I rememember my one GF, who was fun and loving, and I wanted my DDs to have that. Later deep in FOG I felt like it would be incredibly cruel to deny my F a relationship with his GC, but in the end his actions started to impact directly on my DDs and the anxiety it caused me long before that was intense and quite possibly fed into my general depression. Now I wish I could go back and tell myself that it won't be how you wish it because he's not capable, your DDs won't thank you for having him in their lives, and they won't miss him when he's gone. And neither will you.

Thank you @Dippydog, that means a lot. Its taken me a long time to realise that nothing is going to change, and I am a massive people pleaser, and do try so hard to keep the peace. But something in me has snapped and I am realising now, that I have to think about what's best for my mental health and for my children. Its not normal to be scared to answer the phone or door to your own mum, and yet I've lived with that feeling all of my adult life. Its like the veil has been lifted and I am seeing everything as it is finally.

should I state my position to my parents and sister, or should I simply carry on as I am?

You already know the answer to the first option, Penelope. The response will escalate to DefCon1 and you will be shouted down and told you are wrong, it's you, you're crazy, making things up, over-sensitive, whatever it takes to deflect from the real problem.

Only you can decide what you are comfortable with doing. The fact that you are content to just send birthday and Christmas cards is, in fact, you setting the boundary. That doesn't give them power over you because it's your decision. They will try to breach the boundary - sending more gifts, texts, voicemails, random postcards - but if you carry on doing what you are doing (ignoring the messages and taking the gifts to the food bank or the charity shop), there is nothing they can do about that. It's your boundary and it is what you have decided works for you. Essentially, you are grey rocking them and that will be effective for some time.

There might come a time when grey rock is not sufficient to keep them away and you will have to decide how you want to respond to that - no contact always remains an option - but again, that will be your decision.

You don't owe them an explanation. In fact, any explanation you offer is going to be rejected by them anyway so you might as well save yourself the bother.

I say this as someone who was NC with my parents but I got drawn back in when my father (whom I loved, despite his role in all this) was admitted to hospital and died soon after. Currently, I am in low contact with my mother and that contact is getting less and less as I slip away over the horizon. I haven't spoken to her in three weeks and that's been just fine, although I did send a Christmas card. This time next year, there won't even be a Christmas card. Just peace and freedom.

Good luck with whatever you decide but for what it's worth, and if you are content with the current situation, I think you are doing just fine.

Penelope

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles.

What SingingLily wrote; you've been raised within a narcissistic family structure and you are the scapegoat within it. Your sister is the golden child (itself a role not without price but she is unaware).

Their behaviour since and their card to you over the Christmas period was an example of a behaviour called hoovering; its a specialty of narcissists to do this and they are trying to show you they are not also going to let go of you that easily. Its also done as a means of trying to gain power and control.

Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all so need a willing enabler to help them; this here is your dad. The men in these people's lives are either discarded or are as narcissistic as they are.

I would no longer send anything to your parents, sister or for that matter her children (because they will be taught to turn against you); its not appreciated and hopefully with you out of this picture they will further turn on each other.

Do not play the game here or JADE them (justify, argue, defend or explain) either because you will lose and they will keep on moving the goalposts about. It is not possible to have a relationship with such disordered of thinking people. Your mother is ably helped in this by your enabler of a father; he is really her secondary abuser here and has abjectly failed you also as a parent.

Thanks SingingLily and Attila - food for thought. I’m out with dh at the moment, will post properly later

Manon, similar to your parents, mine always said how much they loved babies. Not me, as I was an awful baby who didn't love my mother enough, but all other babies. I realise, though, that my GC sister and me, scapegoat, were expected to be very grown up and independent from a very early age. But to make things even more tricky for us, as we grew up, we were treated as more and more incapable of looking after ourselves. By the time I married and had children, it was as if I wasn't allowed to make even the smallest of decisions about anything whatsoever without parents being upset and angry.

Can't believe how long I kept on trying to appease them. Life is so much calmer now.

This is something I would really like help with but I don't want to start my own thread because I feel like unless you are from a Stately family, you don't get it... and I don't need the uncalled for nastiness that lingers around AIBU.

Dysfunctional family, have been NC with my abusive father for 20 years, single so immediate family is just DM and 2 siblings, A and B, A has a DC, B and I have no children and all of us are single.

I have never got on with A - literally ever. A considered me the golden child to their scapegoat, and so made me their personal scapegoat. Has never been nice to me in their life. A built a strong relationship with B designed to exclude me and for pretty much my entire childhood, I felt, in a family of 5 that I really only had my DM.

Our relationship became codependent and toxic. She has historically controlled and sabotaged me quite a lot, to the point were I am now at the point were if it's important or special to me, I withhold it. She cannot be trusted with a secret.

In recent years, things have really changed. B lives abroad, and we have a strong relationship. B has a very weak relationship now with both A and DM after a series of falling outs that didn't involve me.

It has been a relief to suddenly have someone to confide about A and DM who have become the new toxic duo BUT B picks and chooses when they will respect my confidence.

During the summer, when B was home, a family member announced their DC was having a childfree wedding. B felt that excluding A's DC was a serious motivator as they are quite badly behaved. A and DM were very angry and were basically told to get a grip by me and B. At this point I told B that at the last family wedding B wasn't at (same family group) DM had insisted on a none related child being invited and had massively forced the issue. I felt this was might have motivated "child free" this time. When telling B, I guess I just made the assumption that they understood it was a confidence, but they repeated it, and caused trouble for me.

So since then I made a clear line in the sand and said "If I'm going to confide in you about family issues please don't repeat it, you live really far away, I live here and I have to deal with any fall out"

B agreed

Over Christmas, my DM and A massively made fun of an elderly relative behind their back and made a huge drama out of it, part of this was at my expense. I found it all quite baffling and told B.
Against my wishes B has now repeated it to A for the purposes of shit stirring. A has not responded.

I just feel so defeated and frustrated. I desperately need someone to confide in about DM & A but B's own frustrations with them now seem to be a case of her using my confidences to point score, like if she can't win an argument alone it's well Eine said....

Sigh. I'm sorry this was long and I don't know why I'm even posting or what I'm asking.

I just don't know how to have a relationship with ANY of them at this point

I'm sorry that I keep coming here just to unload but it feels like the one place I can just get everything off my chest.

I have had a horrible day. This afternoon I was in Tescos and felt like I was on the verge of a panic attack the whole way around and I think it has just left me very sensitive. I made the mistake of disagreeing with my narcissistic Dad - for reference I am early 20s and living at home after uni. We had been driving along and got to a point where there was only one lane as the other lane was taken up by parked cars. A young female driver with P plates was driving towards us on our lane and rather than pull in, as we were at a point where we could pull in, and let her through my Dad sped up and carried on and made the new driver reverse back to her nearest place she could pull into which was difficult to do and took a while. I told my Dad that was mean and he should have just pulled in as it was the easiest option to everyone but nope, he is right. Yes he had the right of way but sometimes things aren't black or white. He is always quite an aggressive driver. Then when we got home he was telling my mum about it and all I said was "I don't get why you didn't just pull in" and then he gets really annoyed at me and said something along the lines of "you always think everyone else is right, if you feel like that then you can f*ck off out of this house".

Then maybe 5 minutes later my Mum is calling me from the bathroom moaning at me because when I put my body lotion on a small piece must have dropped on the floor without me knowing so she is (righly) making me clean it up but whenever she calls me like that it triggers so much anxiety. Whenever any of my family call my name my heart drops as I fear I am going to get "told off". It is always for such petty things that are things I do because I am only human. It upsets me because I know she would never ever berate my siblings for the same things, in fact she would ignore it completely. She is not house proud and my siblings treat our home appalling. I am the only one out of my siblings and I that does any cleaning, cooking, washing, etc. All my other siblings treat my mum like a slave. Yet it is me that gets berated for a tiny drop of lotion of the floor, ignoring the fact I deep cleaned the entire house including bathroom yesterday which nobody noticed.

Then finally my sister comes along and swears at me.

I'm sorry. I know the things I have written are so small and petty but I just feel so sad.

SingingLily I was thinking about stating my position in response to the ‘invitation’ for Boxing Day from my parents. They ignored my email invitation to my son’s 18th, so I somehow felt I needed to respond to keep the moral high ground - writing that, I realise how daft that sounds and how I’m being manipulated still!

Atilla Thanks, you make a lot of sense, here and in previous posts. I have toyed with the idea of going no contact completely, but don’t feel I’m ready to do that. My grandfather (father’s father) always had a difficult relationship with my father and cut us all off when my grandmother (who I was very close to ) died when I was 21. I suppose part of me feels I can’t do that as well, which I recognise is a little daft, but still. I can’t quite put my finger on why I’m shying away from completely nc because I enjoy the peace of not having to deal with them and I don’t want to see any of them at all. And my grandfather simply went nc; no explanation, nothing, and not knowing what I’d done really hurt, so part of me thinks I’d have to state my position, so we’d be back to triggering a shit storm.
My niece and nephew are 18 and 16 and I want to try and maintain contact because they aren’t involved in the issues with my parents and sister. Obviously if they decide to throw their hat in with them/ask me not to contact them, then I’d respect that.

You’ve both given me food for thought!

EineReise I completely understand it is far easier to give others advice that to take it yourself - but why do you want a relationship with any of them? What do you get from it?

justfeelingsad Just offering a hug! I can’t imagine treating any of my adult children like this, so you’re not the one behaving abusively

justfeelingsad I’m a complete newcomer here but letting your feelings out and telling what’s happened to you is surely what this thread is for, so please don’t feel guilty. I feel so much sympathy for you, I hate hearing my name because it’s been used in verbal abuse and manipulation so much.

(( justfeelingsad )) I know that sick panicky feeling upon being shouted for by name. I'm with you. Please don't apologise for posting here, you've just as much right to take up space as anybody else. Here, and out in the world.

The sooner you can get out of that house, and expand into your whole self, the better.

It's a terrible injustice that your parents simply won't appreciate you, no matter how much cleaning or tiptoeing you do. Their mistreatment of you says absolutely nothing about you as a person, it's all about the empathy they lack. It's awful growing up with parents like this, terrible living with them again as an adult. I really empathise with your suffering.

I expect there's a powerful river of anger squashed down under all your sadness. Allow yourself to get in touch with it, when you can. You truly don't deserve to be treated this way. You deserve to be seen, understood, loved, appreciated, for your whole self. You always did.

The things you have written are not small, or petty. They describe your experience, they describe injustice. These 'small', 'petty' things all add up into an avalanche of sorrow and outrage within you. Things such as these have had a strong collective impact on your own self-esteem.

But YOU MATTER, and I (we) care. Please post whenever and however you want to. I struggle to post, myself, with similar reasons at the heart of it really. But the presence of every poster on this thread is so helpful to the whole.

They ignored my email invitation to my son’s 18th, so I somehow felt I needed to respond to keep the moral high ground

I think I understand, Penelope. You've always tried to be the polite one, the well-mannered one, as a form of protective colouring to ward off as much of the unwarranted criticism as possible. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but you try anyway because it's what you've always done.

The point is, they know you are taking a step back. In normal families, this would prompt a genuine offer to talk and clear the air. Ours are not normal families. They do not and cannot accept that they might be at fault so the options are limited to either (a) transfer the blame to you by twisting facts, or (b) pretend it never happened. Either way, they have to "win" because the idea of not winning is too wounding to their ego to contemplate.

What I'm trying to say is that there is no moral high ground to be had here. You are chasing something they don't recognise or don't value anyway. It's your role to be wrong and to be in the wrong and if you won't have the decency to fulfill the role assigned to you, well it just proves how wicked you are.

You can't win this one, Penelope, no matter what you do.

I wouldn't respond.

I think @PenelopeCleary what has happened might have been unexpectedly beneficial.

I have Christmas with my family because I have no one else and being single and late 30s I feel my time might be running out.
I worry about future Christmasses alone when DM is dead as I sure as shit won't be anything less than totally NC with A when DM dies

But what these few years have taught me which I didn't realise before was that there is no reason any future DP need ever be brought into the mix and that if I am lucky, I can have a fulfilling life they don't share in. I think without the lessons of the last few single years, I have been so eager to include partners I have not realised it's not in my interests.

Hi @PenelopeCleary Your situation sounds very similar to mine - right down to the sister.

I think I'm one of the rare people on this thread (recently at least) who told my mother I was going NC. (I'd been LC and grey rock for years).

A couple of reasons for doing so. It was a way of having some sort of closure. For me keeping LC was just dragging it out.

And I wanted her to stop phoning me and asking when I would come and visit and leaving long 'sad little croaky voice' messages. She may still be leaving the messages but I have blocked her calls so at least she knows why I am not returning her calls. And it's not because I'm dead or she's going to send some search party.

I also did it because it's the first time in my life (I'm late 40s) that I have ever stood up to my mother and set a boundary. And I wanted to prove to myself that I could do that and she couldn't hurt me any more.

It was terrifying. I had to have a glass of wine beforehand (!!) and I felt terrible for days afterwards. But I'm glad I told her. Even though she will be incapable of processing it and probably thinks I'm going through a phase I hope it gives her something to think about deep down.

She sent me a Christmas card. I didn't open it. It went straight in the bin.

@Dippydog Oh that resonates with me so much. When I was a small child/early teen I was like a 7 year old going on 70 (and probably a complete brat to anyone outside my direct family).

Suddenly as a teenager/young adult I was a small child incapable of anything.

And yes, to the name thing too. Or if my boss says could he have a word with me. I always think I'm going to get told off. I'm only just starting to realise that normal adults don't tell each other off.

@PenelopeCleary @CeciledeVolanges @LongDarkBlues Thank you so much for the support, it means so so much.

@LongDarkBlues I think that is something that is so hard is the events individually are all so small that I have been able to explain them away my entire life. If you had asked me this time last year I would have said I had a good childhood and had a good relationship with my Dad. I may have said "occasionally he gets angry I guess..." However, it is the overall picture that all these seemingly insignificant moments create that has made me realise. I only started to realise something was wrong when a friend had seen us out shopping and came up to us to say hello and caught him in one of his tantrums. It made me it through her eyes and it has lead to this avalanche of memories and realisations and things just clicking with me.

I always viewed my home life and outside life as separate. However, I now see the error in that, my whole life and every relationship and interaction I have with others is affected by the way I have been raised and continue to be influenced. I can now see why I am so nervous at work about messing up, why I am scared of advancing in my career, why no good feedback or good grades mean anything to me, etc. It all stems from what happened/happens at home.

Yellowlemon, it's like our parents just never had appropriate expectations of us. And then constantly changed the rules throughout our lives. Thank you for understanding.

I also wanted to say that, like you, I did state that I was going no contact, and some information as to why. I had to do this via enabling F, because he always acted as go between. NM probably genuinely believes that they went no contact with me. Whilst in a bad place last year, I did phone them, and tell them for the first time ever, that I hated them. Like you, I was terrified, but it turned out to be a real turning point. Everything about their reaction confirmed my feelings about them. It took a few months, but I finally found peace in my decision to be no contact and my children and I have never looked back.

Tragically, I lost my husband to cancer a few months ago and didn't contact my parents. I considered it for a couple of minutes but knew that they could never support me, so didn't bother. It was the right decision. These parents have nothing to offer.

These parents have nothing to offer
Dippy, this phrase may well encapsulate 12 years worth of stately homes threads😁

Tragically, I lost my husband to cancer a few months ago

Dippydog, I'm so sorry for your loss. And I'm sorry that the very people you should have been able to turn to for support were exactly why you couldn't.

My DH has battled with cancer for years. It will come back - the consultant has been clear about that - and it will get him in the end. And no, I won't be telling my mother either when the time comes.

💐