"But we took you to Stately Homes" November 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's November 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
October-November 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@justfeelingsad yes it does sound highly malnipulitive but as you say you can read him like a book. It seems very much me,me, me. As in you can't go without me, stop arguing because you're causing me stress. Have you read about narcissists? Does he fit any of that profile?
Seems your mum is his enabler as she cancels plans and abides by what he wants.
Maybe do some research on dysfunctional families, seek counselling if it's effecting you personally. All gets a bit clearer when you see how the dynamic works

Just catching up with this thread. I’ve been trying to not do so much internet and live in the real world. Hi to all the new people.

It’s been 6 weeks since I went NC and although there have been some really bad times I am starting to feel better.

Also, I had an initial consultation for therapy and even though it was only a phone conversation in the hour we spoke I realised what a trail of destruction I’ve left through by life. I’ve been so self-destructive, pushing away friends, drinking too much, procrastination, reckless with spending. I think when I was finally able to finally do the teenage rebellion thing (10 years too late) I went a bit wild and didn’t stop.

But I’m also very good at hiding the reckless behaviour. I told the therapist that I feel like such a fraud. This professional person at work and this crazy out of control person at home.

She was really understanding and knows that reconciliation with my mother is not a goal so will be come back with some recommendations on next steps.

I got a Christmas card from my mother. It went straight int he bin. I am so glad that my curiosity didn’t get the better of me and I didn’t read it.

No flying monkeys have been sent yet. But I think she would find it difficult to find one tbh.

I know Christmas can be such a hard time so I hope everyone is getting the support they need and feeling ok.

I send you all love. It wasn't your fault. I also had a bad childhood. I had an absent father, and an abusive mother.

I went to track my dad down when I was in my twenties. After I went to see him, he sent me a letter saying that the didn't want to know me. That broke my heart! That was so hurtful!

So I grew up with just my mother - who was an incredibly angry and upset person. She was miserable, and regretted having children, and told us that. She would call me fat, ugly and mentally ill.

I also had no grandparents. And I had an abusive extended family. The last uncle that I went to see- so the first thing that he said to me was that I was ugly. So I will never visit him again.

As you can imagine, I thought I was absolutely worthless. I had nobody telling me that I was worth anything. And I had many people telling me that I was worth nothing. It was later on that I learned ONLY I can define myself, NOBODY else defines me, Your family do not define you, you define yourself. And you guys are all beautiful.

What we all need to remember - is that only we can define ourselves. Not our parents - who are going through a million problems themselves.

Our parents do not define us. WE define us. And I am beautiful, intelligent and loving and nice and caring.

Ask yourself who you are, not what your parents told you that you were.

I send you all love.

Is it OK if I join you all? Just need somewhere to share my feelings about the way my mum pushes me away, and the guilt and relief I feel at not seeing her more. It comes into focus so much more at this time of year

Hi everyone, can I ask some questions? I’m feeling not good today after opening up
to someone last week.

Basically I was outlining how my DF was being tricky at the moment as his DF (My GF) is seriously ill and likely to die. There is history to this but my DF has always been quite unpredictable and was quite aggressive and on occasion violent with us when we were young. For example he once threw me across the kitchen floor when I was 14 because I didn’t respect him enough, and when I crashed my first car he bought me he didn’t speak to me for 2 months. Over time though I’ve forgiven him and a lot of the time we rub along ok as I basically don’t allow his down days/outbursts to affect my self worth or happiness any more - I enjoy the nice bits and ignore the bad. He had a tough upbringing and is a product of that, and he will still have the occasionally verbally aggressive outburst every now and again.

Anyway, literally the evening after I opened up, we had a nice evening visiting my GF, and now I’m worried I’m a fraud. I feel as though I’ve been seeking attention over things I should just forget about. Is this normal? I’m scared the person I opened up to would think I was being over the top if they knew the real truth. Maybe I really was a horrible teenager and deserved it and pushed him to the limit.

I just feel like an attention seeking fraud, I wish I’d never said anything and left it buried. Does anyone else ever feel this way? Is it normal?

@Hollyhead Hi and welcome.

I think feeing like a fraud is completely normal. I feel like a fraud for a couple of reasons. Is the reason that all this happened to me my fault? Were my parents really not that bad and even if they were could I have done something to not let it affect me so badly?

And 2 - on the outside I appear like a totally together person but I'm not. I'm a complete mess.

The therapist I spoke to mentioned trauma. And a few people on this thread have mentioned trauma too. I never thought that I had experienced trauma (I thought that was something war veterans had). I wonder if the reason we feel like frauds is a bit of disassociation.

We all have so much to unpack. And how we feel is important. I think because we weren't ever allowed to have feelings or emotions when we were little makes it difficult to acknowledge that it's ok for us to feel things.

Thank you @yellowlemon I don’t know why I feel so fraudulent, I didn’t make anything up, I suppose it’s because to a fairly large extent I’ve been able to package it up, forgive, ignore and move on.

But the context was relevant to the initial discussion which is why I brought it up. It’s ok to share experiences, I was truthful, I suppose it was because he was not aggressive at all when I saw him later after the opening up that it made me question it.

My attention is elsewhere at the moment, I’ll be reading your posts when I have time.

Just wanted to pop by and say that Christmas brings so many things, good and bad. We slip so easily into roles that our family expects - the grumpy one, the childish one, the martyr etc. Do what you have to do to get through it, but resolve to think about what you might do differently once it’s all over.

Find space if you can to do things you like and enjoy, and that calm you.

View challenging behaviour as objectively as you can, it’s not your fault or responsibility.

I’m sending you all a hugely positive thoughts, we can survive our circumstances, we can live good lives.

Merry Christmas friends x

@Herocomplex And Merry Christmas to you too.

Thank you so much for your kind and wise words over these last few weeks. I haven't spent Christmas with my mother for a while now but this one is hopefully the first where I won't feel guilty for not doing so. This is a huge step for me and I'm not sure I would be doing it if it weren't for all of you Stately Homers.

Merry Christmas everyone xxxx

Happy Christmas to you all. Thank you for being here, I wouldn't be whete I am without all the insights. You are all amazing people, you've survived and you're trying to heal. Be proud of yourself, and don't get sucked back down by one day if you have to spend it with negative family, rise above it. I am hoping 2020 is when I learn to parent myself and find out who 'me' is, the me that didn't both conform to and rebel against my F's controlling, bullying behaviour.

Hollyhead you are not a fraud, it is not ok to be abusive towards you to be violent towards you, you say that you try to overlook his episodes but does he ever apologise, does he ever examine himself?

Angel you deserved parents who loved and cherished you, I'm sorry that you didn't get what you deserve.

Pamspeople, hello and welcome 😊
that sounds complicated and very uncomfortable with your mum 😥

Hi. Ive Read some of the past threads but never posted before. I dont know what to do. DM has decided once again she is going to ruin xmas. She has been looking for an excuse to pick a fight with me, when i didnt give her one she just made something up. She has told everyone my dh attacked and abused her. My dh can be an abusive dick as well so is an easily believable story but i was stood next to him and everything she has said is a complete lie. She has told me she wants nothing to do with me as i am abusive to her i am abusing my children and i am a compulsive lier.
She insisted on buy my dc the big present that they wanted from santa, i didnt want her to do this but she insisted. She now keeps using the item to contact me. First she demanded i collected it or she would destroy it when i didnt she said she had dumped it on her door step and said i had to come and get it i drove round but there was nothing there, then she said she was bringing it to mine she never did. I now feel like ive let my dc down as they wont be getting that gift untill after chrismtas as it has sold out. dm 'borrowed' money from dh for presents so financially its going to be a squeeze after xmas to get the present for dc.
DM also told me she murdered her cat which im 100% sure isn't true but its very upsetting.
Today she has emailed me saying she is going to kill herself becuase i am a horrible daughter she has made this threat so many times it doesn't even have any meaning anymore. i have called the police in the past and once an ambulance was called but she then just called me a liar and says i made it all up, they saw through this and she got a warning. She has a massive chip on her sholder in regards to the police so its would only make it worse calling them.
She's very good at twisting everything and making me feel like a helpless child again.
I have often wonderd if DM has schizophrenia or nassisistic personality disorder i have put this to her but she becomes very agressive. She says she doesn't have a mental health problem and her only problem is other people and they way they abuse her. She causes trouble eveywhere she goes. Her local council have recorded her as a vexatious customer because she is so abusive to them but says she is the victim and they abuse her. She is constently telling me she is going to be evicted. When i called the council they told this is becuase she refuses to pay rent but she again denies this.
A few years ago on dcs birthday she was shouting and screaming about being raped by her farther on her birthday with a gun to her head when she was dcs age. i told her this was inappropriate and she twisted it all around and said i was abusing her i lost my temper and shouted at her to leave. I appologised and tried to talk to her about her behaviour but she twisted it all again and said i had accused her of abusing me as a child and she was turning herself in to the police, she told my they accepted this and told her she would spend Christmas in prison. What she actually did was go to her neighbours and tell them i had abandoned her for christmas and one of them cooked a meal for her.
My dm has tried to ruin Christmas nearly every year for as long as i can remember as a child she would tell me she was going away and would be switching the electricity off so i would be left in a dark room for Christmas on my own. as a young adult she would threaten to kick me out over xmas she never did this but more times than i can remmeber she caused trouble with dsis and i have been punched in the face on Christmas days at least twice. I no longer have a relationship with dsis as dm has told so many lies and caused so much trouble between us that we no longer speak. Dm and dsis were so vile at my wedding i dont even like think about it anymore.
The whole time dm turns everything around on me saying she is the victim of an evil child. I have tried to walk away so many times but she just some how manages to worm her way back in and when she is lucid can can actually be really helpfull and supportive. Shes brilliant with my dcs they love her. Shes very hands on and is happy to babysit anytime ( if i asked anyone else to sit for dc she gets very funny with me) when things are good they are good but then she will chuck that all back iny face and say i am using her
Im sorry this is long i just needed to talk to someone who might get it.

Hi Iwanta😊
the short response to your post is 'she cray cray, cut her out of your life'
I appreciate that is much easier said than done but surely the writing is very obviously on the wall here.... the best way forward it is to put as much distance between you and her as you can?
Of course she loves the kids they are easy to manipulate -anyone can take candy from a baby- and they are the things that allow her to keep coming back and abusing you

Regarding her email presumably you just ignore it and don't respond?

Thank you for the reply. No i didn't respond. I try not to respond to any of her messages when she flips out like this shes been calling me but i just ignor. I expect what she will do now is go compleatly silent and pretend to be dead

Iwanta, it sounds extremely distressing, as if she will stop at nothing to provoke you and create a drama ☹️
certainly does sound as if she has a mental health issue or personality disorder ☹️
I don't know if she would ever seek or accept treatment but you should not be the one taking the flak here

She wont except any treatment. She refuses to admit there is a problem and when i bring it up she keeps throwing it back at me.

Then you must protect yourself and your children from this manipulative crazy woman

Ulterego .. thank you

@Iwantamarshmallowman Hello. That sounds absolutely dreadful and I'm sorry you are going through this.

Unfortunately you can't tell these people that there is something wrong or that they need help. They think the world centres around them and everything is everybody else's fault.

My mother although her behaviour is nowhere near as extreme as your mothers has never once accepted responsibility for anything. (Even nearly burning down our kitchen!). Read some of the other posts and you will find that trying to have a reasonable conversation with them is impossible. They are like toddlers. They sulk, scream, deny, lie, manipulate.

Protect you and your children.

Thank you yellowlemon. Yes she is like a toddler. Last year we went away a few weeks before chrismas. Dc1 was really badly behaved but this was made 100 times worse by DM who would fly in to a huge tantrum every time dc did. Then she had a huge melt down and turned on me and the 2 dc and refused to speak to us the whole week , kept thretening to go home but never did.

Just popping in briefly to offer all of you my sincere hope that tomorrow will be a peaceful day for you (or that you can at least make a quiet space in the day just for yourself) and to send you best wishes for the year to come. Let's hope it's a better one for all of us.

I haven't been around much and I'm just concentrating on just getting through tomorrow with no drama and no fuss, but you are much in my thoughts.

Attila, thank you, wise advice as always. Once we are into January, I'm resolved to doing something positive to move forward - I know I'm stuck, but I'm damned if I'm going to let this overshadow my life again. My best wishes to you too.

Just popping in to say Merry Christmas and I hope you all find peace during the polarised nature.

Dreading tomorrow. Filled with anxiety. I just feel M will be shoving her presents in DS face and taking over. D will prob be hungover and then drunk again.

I wish I could offer some advice but I know Id be the same if I had to face family tomorrow, if anything I feel a bit guilty for having it easy on the big day, I have been able to have very firm boundaries when it comes to Christmas and I spend the day alone by choice
my partner goes to see his mother, I used to go with him to see his mother at Christmas until one time she was deliberately rude to me 😲
and I never went back😁🤣😅
What a result 😎👍
I will be logging in tomorrow to try and provide some emergency cover for those in need 🤗