"But we took you to Stately Homes" November 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's November 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
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November 2012
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December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
October-November 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Grey rock is when you become basically like a boring dull old plain rock. You don’t do any drama

I’ve text my Dsis this;

‘Ok been thinking

Look I think this is her rebelling against all of the boundaries we have put in place. We are not wrong to have them. We need them to keep sane!
We won’t talk on the phone to her anymore and remember she hated that!

We are doing what we need to do and this is about her pretty dreadful personality and not anything more we could do. She would live with us and still be an unhappy person.

We are not responsible for making her happy. You are only responsible for making (family names) happy x ‘

Found this post.
Was wondering if my parents are abusive, and would be interested in hearing everyone’s views as my DH and ILs believe they are.

When I was growing up it wasn’t a happy childhood. Yes my parents had money, yes I didn’t want for nothing but my dad would drink and jump into fits of rage for no reason usually punching holes into my bedroom walls or throwing plates about. They’d argue every year on my birthday for sixteen years running, ruining my birthday every year as a kid. They forced me to take GCSEs and A levels that they wanted me to do and had no interest in.
When I met my DH they instantly didn’t like him and tried very hard to spilt us up.
I got pregnant at 18 and they drove me to the abortion clinic and forced me to have an abortion which I didn’t want and then my father accused my DH of trying to kill him which wasn’t remotely the least bit true.
When DH and I got our first house, we rented off my parents. I wasn’t allowed to do anything in the house decorating etc wise, my parents regularly turned up out of the blue and would go into fits of rage if we had friends or ILs over despite paying full rent to them. They would let themselves in when we weren’t home and would ring me shouting at me if there was a bit of mess or untidiness and would tell me to get home now to clean it up.
When I had a late term miscarriage with triplets, my mother told me two days later not to get pregnant again as she couldn’t go through all that again and that it didn’t matter as she had had a miscarriage and that they weren’t even babies at that stage (I was 18 weeks pregnant).
There’s a lot more but that’s just the start of it and was wondering what others opinions are please.
Best wishes to everyone on this thread. You’re all amazing people.

Thanks for the replies-it seems weird hearing other people think she is odd! I always tend to justify her behaviour by saying oh but she was a good grandma or something! I agree that not coming for lunch would be better all round but I'm just not brave enough to do it! Though my husband is so mad with her that he might...

@cakeandcustard28 wow absolutely abusive! I think I was 3 sentences in and I could tell they were! They are awful how insensitive of your mother to react that way about your miscarriage. I'm really sorry btw that could not have been an easy time. And in times when we are most vulnerable we look to turn to family or partners. Obviously yours were not there.
I think the more you read.on this thread the more you will identify with your parents being toxic and abusive.
Have you had counselling before for your childhood?

Does anyone else find it funny when you finally see through your parents and can spot their behaviour so clearly. They become predictable in the sense you know what their reactions will be ect

@Winterwonderland10 thank you for the reply. No I’ve never had counselling. I think I need too, I keep ignoring my mother’s texts and messages for weeks on end at the moment as I just don’t want to talk to her as she’ll moan that I haven’t spoken to her. (Once I didn’t reply and she messaged the ILs asking if I was alive because I didn’t reply for 4 hours) and has accused my DH of being violent to me and that’s why I don’t answer her texts or calls which again isn’t true as my DH has never laid a finger on me. Going to need help to be able to stay in regular contact with them I think as it just fills me with dread. Sorry for the ramble.

Going to need help to be able to stay in regular contact with them I think as it just fills me with dread
Cakeand, you dont have to be in contact with them, they have treated you despicably and for the sake of your physical and mental well being I think you should look to distance yourself from them so that they cant do any more damage.
You owe them nothing, cut them lose

I'm just not brave enough to do it
maybe not yet but you can get there

CakeandCustard28

It is not even a close call. That is full on abusive behaviour.

Growler alert. Christmas card has arrived from NC F. Not opened it. Can't bring myself to just throw it away either. Thinking I'll have to get DH to open and vet it. Its making me feel anxious, how ridiculous.

Yep that is the only answer Freshstart I love the name growler alert. I haven’t heard that before, totally apt.

FreshStart

Would gladly shred the thing for you now if I had it in my possession.

Do not wait for your DH to get home and vet it further by opening it. Would urge you to shred it now unopened (you have my permission/blessings to do this!!) and in doing this you will not give it any more power than it already has over you.

Your father is trying to hoover you back in; hoovering is a well known tactic employed by such disordered of thinking people as a means of exerting power and control. Resist all such attempts!!!.

I feel I need to know.... bland Happy Christmas, apology or still angry.

It won’t likely be anything like an apology or even pleasant, such people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions

Hi, been a while since I last posted but I feel the need to today.

My mother has (at the very least) bipolar disorder and large parts of my childhood were chaotic. There have been times when she has behaved terribly and times when she could be nice and kind. I don't think she was ever intentionally abusive or anything like that, but her illness took over our lives and she could be very very selfish. Dad was an enabler whose main concern was keeping the peace, and he didn't really do anything to protect us.

Mum's behaviour has been getting worse lately and we thought it might be related to her mental illness. We tried to get help but were told we can't do anything unless Mum is willing to engage. It turns out there was a different cause.

We found out today that she has a brain tumour. More tests are being done to see if it's a standalone growth or if it's secondary to another type of cancer. Either way, the prognosis is not good.

It feels horrible. I'm upset and worried but also conscious that I'm likely to lose a mother who was never really much of a mother to me. It's a very strange feeling.

At the moment she seems to have the mental capacity of a six year old and I don't know how she's going to process this or handle the treatment. She's really not able to cope with bad news and she tends to have obsessive thoughts so it's going to be tough.

My sister and I will be spending Christmas going between Dad in a nursing home and Mum in hospital.

AttilaTheMeerkat You were right of course, my DH opened the card before I had a chance to say anything, and I can see it says nothing extra. Relieved.

Cherrycee I'm so sorry, how awful. I think whatever they have been to us, the demise of our birth parents will still be painful.

@cakeandcustard28 counselling really helps especially when you're ready to open up. You don't have to feel obliged to stay in contact with her. It's FOG, they have a website. Might be useful?

I had a nightmare last night. It was to do with my F and I was there with him when he was drunk and I felt scared because he's unpredictable when drunk and he was losing his temper. It could be because my friend messaged me last night asking if I was going to the pub with my family as she was with hers and family friends. I am going but not drinking and my F is going and drinking. Think I'm worried deep down about how his behaviour will be.

Cherrycee I'm really sorry to hear about your mother. I think the dysfunction makes everything harder in these situations - the practicalities are difficult when you're dealing with someone who has mental illness or personality disorder, and then for yourself, IMO it is a lot easier to come to terms with if it's been a good relationship. It's the mixed feelings that make it difficult, and people don't get it. I don't know what to hope for you really, just that you and your sister get through this.

Winter I found it really crazy when I started reading around all this stuff and found out that, far from being really peculiar, my mother was basically doing all this stuff that lots of other people's crazy relatives were also doing. It made me think of cats. There's a field next to my house where the neighbour's three cats come and watch mice for like 6 hours. I always think that when there is just one there, they look really intelligent and focused. But when there's two there, reacting to the same leaf flying past them or whatever, they look really stupid. Do you know what I mean?

Have you had the pub trip yet? How was it? You might find - I did - that since you've started recognising some of the messed-up dynamics in your family, you'll feel stronger emotions about it than you used to. I think that when we are young we get used to shoving down any feelings we have about our parents' behaviour, and it's only once you start to come out of the FOG that you are able to sort of feel yourself, and acknowledge to yourself, how scary and unpleasant some of it was and is.

Thanks FreshStart. Been a tough few years anyway and now yet another horrible thing to deal with. It's hard to be positive when life keeps dealing you a shit hand. Especially hard this time of year seeing friends with their happy families. I just want to scream sometimes.

Glad this thread is here so I can have a moan without any judgement.

Thank you toomuchtooold, you're right, it is a very confusing time. I suppose all we can do is keep going but it's hard.

@toomuchtooold yes im the same. I cant believe most of their behaviour is text book stuff. I always knew their behaviour wasn't right but as you as i'm lifting from the FOG. Yes i know what you mean about the cat thing, quite true!

No the pub get together happens tomorrow night. I might only stay a few hours as i'm not drinking and then i wont have to witness my drunken F. I do feel stronger emotions towards them now, mostly anger. I feel quite snappy towards my M now.

Hello all. I don’t post much here because I have two young children and no time to myself, but I do like to read through whenever there’s a flare up with my mother. What I’m currently doing is grey rocking (though I only learned this week that that’s what it’s called!); the grey rock got a bit red and angry last week, so I don’t think I’m very good at it. Just wanted to put it down here.

So my mother (who I’ve posted threads about before) is mad. Away with the fairies really (for fairies, read private detectives and CCTV). I don’t think she’s a full on narc, but has narc traits because of her combination of other PDs, mental health problems, traumatic upbringing, and undiagnosed autism. She’s a complex case. It’s easy to feel sorry for her because she’s vulnerable and has no one (her choice).

I keep an instagram account separate from my main one (from which she is blocked) just for her to look at pictures of her grandchildren. It’s the only contact she’ll have with them, hopefully. It allows me to monitor her activity so I know to brace myself for an unannounced visit if she goes quiet.

I usually post no text with the pictures, and don’t respond to her comments and questions. Stupidly, when she commented that my DS seems to prefer winter indoors and maybe he doesn’t like the cold, just like she didn’t as a child, my inner child just wanted to connect. DS3 is autistic (we won’t be sharing this with her, she’s not equipped to understand) and the process of assessment has made me realise that I am too, as is my mother. A lot suddenly made sense about her behaviour and my own behaviour too, and my development as a child. DS hating the cold is a sensory thing to do with his hypermobility, which is itself a part of his autism. My mother and I are both hypermobile too. It’s all been so interesting, this self-discovery through having DS, and I have no family to talk about any of it with. I’d never mention the whole autism backstory to her, but thought I’d just say ‘oh I was the same as a child, hated playing in the snow and much preferred watching from the window. It’s linked to being hypermobile. The joints aren’t as protected as they are in most kids.’

Just an innocent comment but in which I was just agreeing with her and empathising. She writes back to inform me that no, actually did like the cold as a child, and that (quote) my ‘memory is playing tricks again’.

Ffs. The memory comment is referring straight back to a conversation we had when DS was a baby, when she was telling me what an idyllic childhood she’d given me, and I pointed out some of the shit that went down and she told me my memories are false.

Sigh. Switched comments off. Of course, now I can’t monitor her, so maybe she’ll surprise us this Christmas.

Just read back - so very sorry about your mother Cherrycee. Yours sounds a little similar to mine in the sense that you feel her actions are not deliberately malicious, but rather the result of intractable mental illnesses and PDs that make her impossible to engage with. Hope you're ok.