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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why would he be ok with a baby but not an engagement?

210 replies

Underthesun99 · 22/11/2019 10:19

Just that really. My bf and I have talked for a couple of years about getting engaged. I am frustrated and hurt because he has had lots of opportunities to propose but there always seems an excuse. He says it’s too expensive or not the right time. My bf kept saying once we get engaged we can try for a baby. But he won’t propose! However, we are now trying to conceive with no ring, no engagement or marriage.

My question is, I just don’t understand why my bf would be ok with us trying for a baby but not want to get engaged to me? Or at least be honest that he doesn’t find marriage important.

OP posts:
Beau2019 · 22/11/2019 13:24

@Supersimkin2 I think that's a little harsh and could actually put a lot of unnecessary doubt into women.

In all honestly, if you have everything else. What does marriage REALLY change. A decent man will never do any of these things. A clued I'll couple UNMARRIED will have all their finances/will etc in order. Stop putting the fear into people where it's not required based on potentially your own bad experience.

And ps. Absent fathers that don't pay will eventually just accrue an extremely large child maintenance debt that they will eventually have to pay .

CornishMaid1 · 22/11/2019 13:24

This may have been said, but if you want to be engaged propose to him.

If he says no, stop TTC. You do not want a baby with a man who is not willing to be committed to you and your family together.

FizzyGreenWater · 22/11/2019 13:24

but I am financially stable

Can I finally pick up on this too, OP?

At 32, no you aren't financially stable, you're financially stalled. You're using your earning power to pay off not your own mortgage, but that of someone who could make you homeless in a day.

Now I know that if you weren't with him, you might well be paying more in rent and utilities elsewhere etc and might not have a deposit, etc.

But the key thing is that you aren't thinking in terms of saving, buying your own place etc., you're completely thinking of the future in terms of baby with him, cementing staying where you are now... but putting in place NONE of the safeguards which would make that a secure decision instead of one which leaves you financially fucked.

For example, I might now start a conversation where you say, 'fine, if you do want a baby but aren't prepared to get married, then you need to see that all the risk is on me. So, if you want to go ahead with that then we both need to protect me and the baby in a different way. From now on, while we TTC and thereafter, I am not going to pay any more towards your mortgage, I am going to start saving for my own. We need to draw up a childcare agreement and know whether you would be able and willing to work a 4 day week for at least one of the preschool years so that I don't compromise my career. We need to look at a savings account for a second property which is in my name, is rented out in the meantime but is mine if we split. We need you to divert a monthly sum into my account to save for maternity leave, I'll do the same. WE need to...'

I rather suspect that after sitting there with his mouth open at the thought of HIM having to commit to financial sacrifices, or support you financially in any way, his thoughts on having a baby might change drastically.

Give it a go.

Techway · 22/11/2019 13:27

label it 'mortgage payment'. May help you make a claim later if you split. Note, he probably won't like it at all if you do, which might give a bit more clarity

Really good advice. Do it now. Change the direct debit name, if he kicks off then you know his agenda is to treat you as a lodger.

Say No, I will not have baby until we marry and on the deeds. I suspect you will get fireworks and be told you are after his money but this is why women back down as we don't want to be labelled good digger however it is YOU who will be responsible for 18 years of child costs and caring.

Dery · 22/11/2019 13:30

Dear OP

No-one is angry with you but those posting are very concerned about your situation which potentially makes you very vulnerable and trying to convey that to you. We are also speaking in the knowledge of what a huge commitment of time, energy and money children are – children are worth every drop of that but parenthood puts serious pressure on any relationship and you are already worried about the cracks in yours. In short, there are serious red flags here.

Your partner knows marriage is important to you and he dangles the prospect of it but has not proposed and make lazy excuses for not doing so. The argument that weddings are expensive etc holds no water – children cost a huge amount of money to raise. Furthermore, it's possible to marry very cheaply.

Marriage is not equally important to everyone – my OH and I had our 2 DC some years before we got married but we were a bit older (mid-30s and mid-40s respectively), jointly owned a house together (bought with the intention of raising a family) and we knew we would get around to getting married and, in due course, we did. I took several months' mat leave but never intended to be, and never was, an SAHM so I always had financial independence. At the moment, in legal terms, you have the status of a lodger in a house where you're helping to pay the mortgage.

But the real point is that I never doubted my OH's commitment, whereas your DP's failure to propose is, at some level, causing you to doubt his. Pay attention to that doubt. You know deep down that the most likely explanation for his failure to propose is that he wants to keep his options open and if that is the case, he may prove to be an uncommitted and unreliable father, especially once he starts to experience the reality of the early years of child-raising. The bottom line is that, unless you are fully ready to raise your child alone, you really shouldn't enter into a pregnancy with any uncertainty about your partner's commitment to you; it could be argued that it's not really fair to your future child to do that either.

32 is still relatively young in terms of childbearing. This is highly unlikely to be your last opportunity. I have numerous other friends, in addition to me, who had children in their late 30s and some in their early 40s.

The refusal to have anything to do with his family is also a red flag and would fill me with alarm. There may be good reasons for it but I would be very uncomfortable taking that at face value given that they will be your and your DC's relatives if you do stay with your partner.

The bottom line – and what people are trying to convey - is that you deserve better than this. Please stop TTC until you have properly sorted out where you stand in this relationship and keep in mind that you may need to move on to find what you want.

Good luck.

MsRomanoff · 22/11/2019 13:32

Labelling it mortgage payment might help.

But unless op has the funds to go to chase the money, in court, it's pointless.

She maybe be financially stable now. But I am guessing ita her career that will go by the wayside when the baby comes. Not his.

ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 22/11/2019 13:37

It's funny.... It used to be that a man who didn't marry the mother of his child was looked down on, as having failed to do their duty. (Assuming other people knew about it, that is.)

Now the women who push for marriage before having children are looked down on as gold diggers.

desperatesux · 22/11/2019 13:40

You really need to listen to people who have been through this and the consequences for you as an unmarried mother.
I had three kids with someone who I wasn't married to. I also worked in his business and created a business within a business making him millions, literally. We had houses etc - everything was in his name. I was lucky as where I live there is co habitation law but still nothing like a 50 50 split. In the end he married me after 18 years as I issued an ultimatum but to be honest I think the only reason he went ahead was because they still needed me in work and I was going to leave if we didn't get married
Honestly I was a total idiot , things you don't think of at 30 suddenly become so important at 40. I was v v lucky but he honestly believed everything was ans should be his despite the fact I had made most of his money for him

Tinkerbell19 · 22/11/2019 13:42

If he wanted to propose he would. End it with him and find someone who wants the same things you do, you'll be so much happier Flowers

Clearnightsky · 22/11/2019 13:48

His family being dysfunctional is a huge red flag too. How many red flags do you need?!
I know this is a red flag but I've only met his family once - they are dysfunctional but he doesn't want me to meet them at all even though we are ttc.

I’m one of those posters who had a baby with a man and although he promised, promised to marry me, that didn’t happen. I didn’t expect to get pregnant so soon. The man I was with was honourable and well respected. House in his name. Baby turned out to have special needs so I’ve had to give up work.

So separating now and guess what? I have no protection and am having to fight tooth and nail.

Don’t be me.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 22/11/2019 13:50

I know you think we’re angry with you OP, but we honestly aren’t. We’ve just read too many threads from poor women who have been in similar situations and ended up with nothing while the man pays a pittance towards the child. I do actually care about what happens to women I don’t actually know.

hsegfiugseskufh · 22/11/2019 13:57

In all honestly, if you have everything else. What does marriage REALLY change. A decent man will never do any of these things. A clued I'll couple UNMARRIED will have all their finances/will etc in order. Stop putting the fear into people where it's not required based on potentially your own bad experience

its a legal document, it changes your status legally. it gives you rights you wouldn't have otherwise. The point is that OP doesn't have her finances in order.

And ps. Absent fathers that don't pay will eventually just accrue an extremely large child maintenance debt that they will eventually have to pay

nope. It just gets written off in the end. My dad owes my mum thousands from 20 years ago, she wont ever see a penny of it.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/11/2019 13:57

I’ve read threads on Mumsnet from women, whose partners or husbands seemed to be enthusiastic about ttc (aka having unprotected sex). Once unprotected sex resulted in a pregnancy and the op came on here asking for support. Seemingly the resulting pregnancy was a shock to the man, who was now demanding she have an abortion.

I’m not so sure your partner actually wants a child or that he will be ok if you fall pregnant. He just doesn’t object to having unprotected sex.

All we are reading here from what you have said is that your partner is happy to have unprotected sex with you and let you live with him in exchange for paying half his mortgage.

Sushiroller · 22/11/2019 14:01

🚩 you discuss marriage but no proposal is forthcoming
🚩his excuse for this keeps changing
🚩 despite this he wants to try for a baby (btw 32 is not old you have a good few years)
🚩 you are paying towards his mortgage without your interest being registered against the property (and with no property of your own, in part presumably because you are paying his mortgage)
🚩 you haven't met his family

More than one red flag here I'm afraid... I'd be having a long hard think. And I would start using contraception asap

ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 22/11/2019 14:07

Somehow I'd missed that he hasn't let you meet his family...!

Fucking hell OP, this guy isn't even a little bit serious about you. He sure as hell doesn't want to have a child with you if he won't even introduce you to his parents. If you get pregnant, how will that baby ever know its paternal grandparents?

Wise up OP, please!

ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 22/11/2019 14:18

I'd also agree with pp that it's not clear whether this man actually wants a child or not.

I wanted to have a baby because I am not getting any younger. So I suppose I've just taken matters in to my own hands.

I wish he would be clear with me. but he seems enthusiastic and not against having a baby with me

Which is it? Is he enthusiastic, or just indifferent ('not against having a baby') and you've taken that as a green light to TTC?

If it's the latter, please don't kid yourself that becoming a dad will change him and make him marry you.

Hell, even if it's the former, having a baby won't make him marry you.

user1480880826 · 22/11/2019 14:20

You’re still asking why he wants a baby but not a marriage even after people have explained the reasoning to you. He wants the freedom to be able to walk away.

Please stop considering having a baby with this man.

StripeyTopRedLips · 22/11/2019 14:23

If you feel that you’re running out of time to have children and are happy with the idea of having a baby anyway and ending up single, and you can provide for a child, crack on TTC. It’s an unpopular view but it depends how badly you want a baby. But I wouldn’t continue TTC if you’d only want to do so in a!relationship, this guy isn’t at all committed to you.

I often see people on MN getting mixed up thinking TTC and a baby is commitment to the other person, it isn’t. It’s a commitment to the child. You have zero commitment to their other parent. He may well be happy to have found someone who’s willing to bear him a child, especially at forty if he hasn’t had kids already, without expecting anything more of him. It’s kinda win win for him when his earning power and career and body and health won’t be as impacted as yours.

Marriage is a commitment to the other person and the fact he’s unwilling to offer you that says a lot about his feelings towards you and the longevity of your relationship. He wants a baby, he’s happy for the mother to be you, but he’s not in any way committed to you. I’m so sorry, but please keep your eyes open and ensure whatever decision you make is one that truly works for you.

StripeyTopRedLips · 22/11/2019 14:30

Now the women who push for marriage before having children are looked down on as gold diggers.

Really? I’ve never heard anyone with that attitude. Gold diggers?

I think the stigma against men who don’t marry the mother of their children has evaporated as women have gained more rights and the ability to support themselves. It’s now seen as much more of an equal partnership where both parties are capable of being independent, so marriage is something optional that is chosen if both wish to marry. In days gone by it was much more ‘he’s failing to provide for his family’, while women are far more able now to provide for themselves.

I’ve noticed that men are very eager to marry a woman if a) they love her and b) she makes it clear she will only have children once married. I hate to say it, but if you’re willing to live with someone in their house you have no stake in and willing to carry their child without any of the legal rights and benefits of marriage, some men will consider there’s no actual reason to marry and just not bother. There’s no leverage. Not that you’d want to marry a man who doesn’t enthusiastically want to marry you in the first place, but the flip side is situations like the OP’s where she’s willingly placing herself in a very vulnerable position.

We weren’t engaged when we started trying but had both agreed a year prior that we did want to be married by the time we had a child (we had a busy year of saving, buying our first home, lots of expenses!). It was a risk to TTC trusting we would end up married but I trusted DH wanted it as much as I did. Got pregnant immediately, engaged at four months pregnant and married at six months pregnant. Just didn’t want to delay TTC at my age with health problems to marry and both liked the idea of marrying pregnant!

mummmy2017 · 22/11/2019 14:31

I bet your paying 50/50 of bills.
What are his thoughts on this when you have no income?

KatharinaRosalie · 22/11/2019 15:09

What does marriage REALLY change. A decent man will never do any of these things

So in your social circle, when couples break up, the wealthier partner always says 'OK dear, even though you're legally not entitled to anything, here are half of my assets, because I'm just so decent'?

beckyvardy · 22/11/2019 15:10

Having a baby will change your relationship.

If it breaks down and your not married and have given up work to be a SAHM then that's it.

He has no legal obligation to provide you with anything.

No spousal support, no where to live and only what the csa can make him pay.

You have no protection if this relationship goes wrong.

If you are happy with that then go for it and have a baby with him but be aware if it all goes wrong you might be on your own.

Paying your own rent or mortgage, childcare etc etc.

You need to have your eyes wide open.

beckyvardy · 22/11/2019 15:12

Also will he expect you to give the baby his surname if your not married?

Pilot12 · 22/11/2019 15:16

Not everyone wants to get married, I know lots of couples with kids where Mum and Dad aren't married. Why is it so important to you? Will a piece of paper change anything in your day to day life?

Josette77 · 22/11/2019 15:20

Does he know you are trying to conceive?